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Most Disappointing / Satisfying Aspect of the Sequel Trilogy? — Page 4

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I read the occasional EU work, but mostly I find it pretty easy to fill in gaps in political information of the galaxy in my head.

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suspiciouscoffee said:

I read the occasional EU work, but mostly I find it pretty easy to fill in gaps in political information of the galaxy in my head.

I’d argue that you can live without it, but I think it’d’ve helped to know even just a little bit more. I think JJ wanted to make it easy for general audiences to get good guys vs bad guys, but it’s a bit more complicated than that so those who are curious are left somewhat confused, at least on first watch.

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fmalover said:

Most disappointing aspect:
The Force Awakens. I don’t understand why so many like what is essentially SW 2.0, the FO is made up of what’s left of the Empire yet still has the resources to build a third Death Star about twenty times the size of the original, plus there’s a line of dialogue from Rose in Canto Bight which is “there’s only one job that can make you this wealthy in the Galaxy… Selling to the FO”. So, despite being reduced to a mere fraction of what once was the FO has apparently retained the Empire’s vast wealth. WTF?
I also didn’t like Finn being a total buffoon in TFA, and as for Rey, while I like her as a character I want you to imagine the following: picture a girl from a third world country who grew up in the slums scraping through garbage but guess what, she’s a capable hand-to-hand fighter, can fly aeroplanes, drive motorbikes and is pretty knowledgeable in mechanical engineering. Congratulations, you just pictured Rey, and her being so skilled at just about everything is what annoys me the most.

You only did half of the assignment.

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I’d say that the most satisfying aspect was seeing Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher in character again. I didn’t like the death of Han Solo at all and it ruined a lot of what I did enjoy about the movie, but overall I think it was one of the better Harrison Ford performances in the last twenty years.

The Person in Question

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I agree, I thought he turned in a great performance. And I didn’t think she had much of anything to do in TFA but I really liked her in TLJ.

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darthrush said:

NeverarGreat said:

But Rey’s introduction was also an all-timer. The first third of that movie, really, is just great.

This. This. This. This.

Like seriously, the first third of TFA, especially Rey’s introduction, is just beautiful. Part of why I left the theater feeling like I really enjoyed it (an amazing first third, and an ok 2/3), but still feeling underwhelmed and I think it was because of how awesome that first third was.

Great point, I think that’s about where I land as well. The first third is super exciting and new, and the rest is just… short of the mark a bit. Storywise. The characters carry us through all that at least.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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TV’s Frink said:

fmalover said:

Most disappointing aspect:
The Force Awakens. I don’t understand why so many like what is essentially SW 2.0, the FO is made up of what’s left of the Empire yet still has the resources to build a third Death Star about twenty times the size of the original, plus there’s a line of dialogue from Rose in Canto Bight which is “there’s only one job that can make you this wealthy in the Galaxy… Selling to the FO”. So, despite being reduced to a mere fraction of what once was the FO has apparently retained the Empire’s vast wealth. WTF?
I also didn’t like Finn being a total buffoon in TFA, and as for Rey, while I like her as a character I want you to imagine the following: picture a girl from a third world country who grew up in the slums scraping through garbage but guess what, she’s a capable hand-to-hand fighter, can fly aeroplanes, drive motorbikes and is pretty knowledgeable in mechanical engineering. Congratulations, you just pictured Rey, and her being so skilled at just about everything is what annoys me the most.

You only did half of the assignment.

Connection problems, my friend.

Reading my own post and thinking about it a little better the actual most disappointing aspect of the ST is in fact the whole set-up. The FO being an unstoppable military force despite being made up of the remnants of the Empire that is capable of dismantling a galaxy wide New Republic is by far the most illogical aspect of the story. Not just that, as previously stated in my post they are also implied to be wealthy enough to afford the best ships and weapons money can buy. So all it took to defeat the New Republic was the destruction of a mere five planets? Did the NR concentrate all their military fleet on those five planets? They don’t have a galaxy-wide fleet or at the very least patrols? And as Mr. Plinkett said in his prequel reviews, if you need expanded material like books and such to explain the gaps in logic within your movie then the movie is a failure. To say J. J. Abrams masterfully set up the story is disingenuous. It’s almost as if after WW2 the Nazis who fled to South America had unified the populations of those countries under one banner, developed nuclear bombs, trained a massive military force consisting of a super navy, a super air force all in the span of thirty years and in 1975 launched a coordinated nuclear strike all across Europe that obliterated all capital cities and all European countries meekly surrendered without a fight.

I didn’t mind Rey being naturally strong in the Force and picking up a few tricks with ease, it’s entirely possible she earned some knowledge by reading Kylo Ren’s mind, but I do have a problem with her being talented at everything when her daily routine consists of scavenging ship parts.

One thing I say the pre-Disney EU got right was the Imperial Remnant, which IMO is far more believable than the FO, where what’s left of the Empire is forced to get creative with their tactics and in the end since they still firmly believe in the Empire they reach an agreement with the NR and are granted their own slice of the Galaxy where they are allowed to rule themselves independently of the Republic. I think the FO should have been a sort of fanatical group of imperialists that unlike the open warfare tactics of their predecessors rely on deception, espionage, infiltration, guerilla warfare, kidnappings, forced conversion, terrorism and their members have a cult-like mentality, you know, starting small, conquering seemingly unimportant planets, enslaving the best scientific minds in the Galaxy forcing them to develop technology that gives them an edge in combat… You guys get the gist of it, but instead it’s almost as if the Empire let the Rebels win thirty years ago because they were bored or something.

I think I’ve ranted enough about how poorly set up the ST is, now I will talk about the most satisfying aspect of the ST: The Last Jedi.
Not only do I think the movie is flawlessly made, I also love the fact that it spits right in the face of TFA and all of its dumb ideas. Characters that didn’t work for me are made a lot more appealing, like Finn, who goes from being the buffoon in TFA and really matures into a hero willing to die for the greater good. Kylo Ren came off as an immature whiner in TFA, but here you really feel how emotionally unstable he is as a person, impulsively killing Snoke, being fooled by Luke’s diversion on Crait due to an urge to get even with his former master. It’s a shame Rose isn’t present when DJ reveals the people who sell to the FO are the same who sell to the NR, it would have taught her to not be so idealistic. Now this is a matter of personal preference but I would have switched Rose with Paige because I find Paige to be physically way more attractive than her younger sister.

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joefavs said:

My one major complaint is that the political situation is sketched too lightly. I’m an EU guy, so I’m personally well aware of what’s going on, but if I was just going off the movies I wouldn’t have any sense of that wider context.

Actually, come to think of it, this right here is the most disappointing to me. I’d be okay with the rebels 2.0 vs. Empire 2.0 situation if it were adequately explained, but it isn’t unless you want to dive into EU material like Aftermath 1-3 and Bloodline. Which I have, but I shouldn’t have needed to in order to understand what the hell is happening in the galaxy.

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moviefreakedmind said:

I’d say that the most satisfying aspect was seeing Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher in character again. I didn’t like the death of Han Solo at all and it ruined a lot of what I did enjoy about the movie, but overall I think it was one of the better Harrison Ford performances in the last twenty years.

TV’s Frink said:

I agree, I thought he turned in a great performance. And I didn’t think she had much of anything to do in TFA but I really liked her in TLJ.

I also agree with both of these posts (except about Han’s death, I thought that was perfectly executed [heh] and was necessary for the story).

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Han Solo’s death was perfect. It developed everyone involved’s characters.

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snooker said:

Han Solo’s death was perfect. It developed everyone involved’s characters.

At the expense of Han Solo getting a cheap and sudden death and denying us a scene of Han, Luke, and Leia together again.

The Person in Question

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The denial of fan service is the crux of your hatred of his death?

Also, how was it cheap? The whole movie was building up to it.

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snooker said:

The denial of fan service is the crux of your hatred of his death?

You said that it developed the characters of everyone involved. In my opinion, his death only served to develop a bunch of much less exciting characters at the expense of killing one of cinema’s best characters in a really sudden and obnoxious way that gave him no real closure. Wanting closure to his relationship with Luke, which was central to the OT, has nothing to do with fan service.

Also, how was it cheap? The whole movie was building up to it.

It was obvious the whole time that Harrison Ford just wanted out of the franchise, and I can’t blame him.

The Person in Question

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Tyrphanax said:

DominicCobb said:

Tyrphanax said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

darthrush said:

Collipso said:

I really liked Kylo Ren in both movies too, but TFA Kylo and TLJ Kylo feel like they’re not even the same incarnation of the character. I do love him in both TFA and TLJ though.

Really? I’m interested to hear why. I feel like his overall arc between two movies is compelling and really well bridged. Everything that motivates him and drives him seems consistent throughout and he plays it as such. I’ll admit that him in the Last Jedi is so much better than him in TFA, but mainly cause of the richer material that the character had to work with in the middle installment of the trilogy.

I was being a bit hyperbolic. Rian apparently decided to ignore the Vader wannabe aspect of the character, which was a major part of Kylo, so that kind of passes the message that he wanted to just not care as much about consistency to me.

I should rewatch TLJ and TFA maybe back to back once I get my TLJ Blu-ray and think more about the matter, but yeah, that’s mainly what I’m talkig about. I believe there’s more but I can’t think of anything right now.

He didn’t ignore that aspect at all, it’s a big part of his character in TLJ.

I do recall two scenes where they address it - the first Snoke x Kylo scene, and the one where he destroys his helmet

Which informs his later actions.

Those scenes are where Kylo stops being what everyone is afraid of/hopes he is (Vader’s Legacy, which he wasn’t very good at pretending to be) and becomes himself, which is actually a little bit closer to Vader than he was before. And, honestly, much scarier than his previous Vader-wannabe persona.

Everyone comparing him to Vader his whole life has made him into what he is now.

Exactly exactly. First it was Luke trying to make him not Vader, then Snoke trying to make him nuVader. What he does here is “kill the past,” and forges his own path.

Yeah, I meant to mention that’s why he’s suddenly so into “killing the past.” Every time he destroys or loses a part of his past, he’s able to be more himself. He’s lived his whole life under the spectre of Vader: whether people were trying to exploit his lineage or suppress it. Luke and Leia were afraid of it, Snoke wanted to control that power for his own. He’s never been allowed to be himself, and once Snoke is dead, he’s suddenly freed from another part of that past and he realizes “if I can get rid of all of this, I’ll be free from this expectation.”

That’s why Rey is so important to him: she’s nobody. She doesn’t care where he came from, she’s not interested in his lineage. She’s an outsider and really the first person to see him as him and not “Vader’s Heir.”

Thanks Tyrphanax and thanks Dom, that’s a much better way to look at it than mine.

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snooker said:

The denial of fan service is the crux of your hatred of his death?

Also, how was it cheap? The whole movie was building up to it.

The only enjoyment I got out of it was being justified in my initial prediction about the movie- It’ll mostly be a remake of Star Wars and Han will die instead of Obi-Wan.
Just seemed like a box to be ticked.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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ray_afraid said:

snooker said:

The denial of fan service is the crux of your hatred of his death?

Also, how was it cheap? The whole movie was building up to it.

The only enjoyment I got out of it was being justified in my initial prediction about the movie- It’ll mostly be a remake of Star Wars and Han will die instead of Obi-Wan.
Just seemed like a box to be ticked.

Yep. Not wanting a beloved character to die just for the sake of cheap drama isn’t a desire for fan service.

The Person in Question

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JawsTDS said:

Worst thing: John Williams’ weak and anemic score.

Couldn’t disagree more on this point, though I’d have liked to hear more new motifs in TLJ.

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ChainsawAsh said:

JawsTDS said:

Worst thing: John Williams’ weak and anemic score.

Couldn’t disagree more on this point, though I’d have liked to hear more new motifs in TLJ.

TFA’s score is superb. I haven’t listened to TLJ’s enough to have an opinion.

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Collipso said:

ChainsawAsh said:

JawsTDS said:

Worst thing: John Williams’ weak and anemic score.

Couldn’t disagree more on this point, though I’d have liked to hear more new motifs in TLJ.

TFA’s score is superb. I haven’t listened to TLJ’s enough to have an opinion.

This.

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The Force Awakens really grew on me after a while and I have grown to love it.

The Last Jedi doesn’t bring nearly as much new material to the table besides stuff like Rose’s theme (which I don’t care for) but it does a fantastic job of utilizing the previous themes from the Force Awakens and also using the music from the rest of the saga.

I remember the music more in the Last Jedi and the music itself is used better, but the Force Awakens has a more innovative and original score that stands on its own.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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While I agree that it’s a shame we didn’t get more new motivic material in TLJ, if you really do listen to the score (and I mean all of it, not just what’s on the soundtrack), I think there’s a strong argument to be made that in pretty much every other way it is better than TFA.

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DominicCobb said:

While I agree that it’s a shame we didn’t get more new motivic material in TLJ, if you really do listen to the score (and I mean all of it, not just what’s on the soundtrack), I think there’s a strong argument to be made that in pretty much every other way it is better than TFA.

Yeah. I actually forgot to mention tracks like “The Spark” which is just fantastic. And the music that plays when Luke closes his saber and surrenders to Kylo is great too.

I must say though that one area that is lacking is the music during the throne room fight. It is so forgettable. Which is why I will replace it with Duel of the Fates.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

While I agree that it’s a shame we didn’t get more new motivic material in TLJ, if you really do listen to the score (and I mean all of it, not just what’s on the soundtrack), I think there’s a strong argument to be made that in pretty much every other way it is better than TFA.

Yeah. I actually forgot to mention tracks like “The Spark” which is just fantastic. And the music that plays when Luke closes his saber and surrenders to Kylo is great too.

I must say though that one area that is lacking is the music during the throne room fight. It is so forgettable. Which is why I will replace it with Duel of the Fates.

I think the throne room battle is an absolutely fantastic action cue. In my mind, you don’t want something epic on the scale of “Duel of the Fates” for that because A) it’s not the climax of the film, and B) it’s not an epic duel, it’s just Rey and Ben teaming up to defend themselves. The most epic part of that scene is when Snoke dies and we see them decide to team up (not when they actually fight), and I think the music fits that well enough.