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Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * TROS SPOILERS WITHIN * — Page 16

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FreezingTNT2 said:

Since we’re talking about disappointing aspects of the sequel trilogy, I’d say one of the most disappointing aspects of the trilogy is having The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi take place so close to each other.

They could’ve had The Last Jedi take place two or three years after The Force Awakens, with Rey training under Luke since after The Force Awakens. The Resistance subplot can start off the same (the whole evacuation and space chase stuff), Kylo has continued his training that was mentioned by Snoke in the last film, Rey and Kylo have their interactions, etc. Luke would refuse to leave because he’s worried that he would have to confront Snoke and Kylo, two powerful dark side Force-users, and that he would die, but he is convinced by Anakin/Obi-Wan/Yoda to leave the island and confront them.

These are just random ideas I’m throwing out there.

Yes.

Reimagine the Yuuzhan Vong into Gigeresque biomechanical monstronsities, and the Yuuzhan Vong gods into Lovecraftian entities, and I’d get behind that.

And yes.

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Another disappointing sequel trilogy idea: lightsabers now having the ability to call to other Force-sensitive people, which has never been established before in any Star Wars media.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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Like the ability or not, it’s silly to criticize it just because it never showed up before. If that’s the metric then we’d never get anything new.

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The more I sit on it, the more I really hate Rey Palpatine. I really hate it- I wouldn’t even use hate to describe how I feel about what Johnson did to Luke in TLJ but I hate Rey Palpatine. The force dyad properly elaborated on would have been fully sufficient to explain Rey’s OP-ness, in my opinion. Rey being from nowhere was in retrospect completely in line with the Star Wars ethos and if episode XI had kept with it, and I think it would have allowed that fact to sit well with audiences.

Rey Palpatine never really sat right with me, even the first time I watched it. Once fan edits start coming out of TROS, whatever edit I chose will need to have Rey Palpatine scrapped, no exceptions, but that’s just my taste and my preference. Rey Palpatine will never be canon to me.

This is coming from someone who overall enjoyed the sequels, so don’t accuse me of being a Disney hater or whatever. I understand why JJ did it, and I strongly disagree

No offense, kid, but I don’t think you know how to boil water.

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liamnotneeson said:

The more I sit on it, the more I really hate Rey Palpatine. I really hate it- I wouldn’t even use hate to describe how I feel about what Johnson did to Luke in TLJ but I hate Rey Palpatine. The force dyad properly elaborated on would have been fully sufficient to explain Rey’s OP-ness, in my opinion. Rey being from nowhere was in retrospect completely in line with the Star Wars ethos and if episode XI had kept with it, and I think it would have allowed that fact to sit well with audiences.

Rey Palpatine never really sat right with me, even the first time I watched it. Once fan edits start coming out of TROS, whatever edit I chose will need to have Rey Palpatine scrapped, no exceptions, but that’s just my taste and my preference. Rey Palpatine will never be canon to me.

This is coming from someone who overall enjoyed the sequels, so don’t accuse me of being a Disney hater or whatever. I understand why JJ did it, and I strongly disagree

I hate the concept of Darth Sidious having progeny in general, it completely goes against his nature.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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I agree. It humanizes the character way too much. He should be monstrous and untouchable, not canoodling behind the reactor with some floozy.

FreezingTNT2 said:
I hate the concept of Darth Sidious having progeny in general, it completely goes against his nature.

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nowt said:

I agree. It humanizes the character way too much. He should be monstrous and untouchable, not canoodling behind the reactor with some floozy.

His child would have been conceived after he became emperor, so I can only imagine that women are brought to him and made to caress his bloated monster face etc. Then they both have a smoke before his guards pay the woman and kindly escort her out, after which they ask Palps if he wants to keep her number on file.

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pleasehello said:

nowt said:

I agree. It humanizes the character way too much. He should be monstrous and untouchable, not canoodling behind the reactor with some floozy.

His child would have been conceived after he became emperor, so I can only imagine that women are brought to him and made to caress his bloated monster face etc. Then they both have a smoke before his guards pay the woman and kindly escort her out, after which they ask Palps if he wants to keep her number on file.

I miss ten seconds ago when I hadn’t read this.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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Considering how many groupies came to his concert at the end of TROS, I doubt he lacked for willing participants. Honestly that’s the part of it that bothers me the least, since they just gloss over it. But there’s definitely something to be said for Palpatine being death itself, with the inability to conceive life in any way.

The more I think of it the more I like the idea of bringing Palpatine back in some way (though not this way). If the ST is all about legacy, and the OT heroes all find the strength and confidence in their proteges to move on knowing the galaxy is in good hands, wouldn’t it be interesting if the antagonist is an old villain who absolutely refuses to move on in any way?

Back to Palpatine in love, wasn’t that supposed to be one of the scripts for George’s never produced SW Underworld TV show?

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nowt said:

I agree. It humanizes the character way too much. He should be monstrous and untouchable, not canoodling behind the reactor with some floozy.

ALOL

Yub Nub for life

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 (Edited)

IIRC, Underworld had a Palpatine Origin Story episode that essentially made the case Palpatine only really sought out the Sith because he couldn’t handle getting done wrong by his girlfriend.

Ronald D. Moore talked about it some after everything got sold, and I think that interview he gave is where we found out the whole show had something like 50-plus completely finished scripts? Also that Moore and Lucas would get in full-on FIGHTS over the story direction. Not gentle disagreements, but very heated arguments about what “Star Wars” can be.

Which I thought was awesome. Make that dude fight for his story, not just sit there and dole it out. Make him do the work of justifying the ideas that fly into his head, as opposed to just handing them down to people like they’re historical documents.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

liamnotneeson said:

The more I sit on it, the more I really hate Rey Palpatine. I really hate it- I wouldn’t even use hate to describe how I feel about what Johnson did to Luke in TLJ but I hate Rey Palpatine. The force dyad properly elaborated on would have been fully sufficient to explain Rey’s OP-ness, in my opinion. Rey being from nowhere was in retrospect completely in line with the Star Wars ethos and if episode XI had kept with it, and I think it would have allowed that fact to sit well with audiences.

Rey Palpatine never really sat right with me, even the first time I watched it. Once fan edits start coming out of TROS, whatever edit I chose will need to have Rey Palpatine scrapped, no exceptions, but that’s just my taste and my preference. Rey Palpatine will never be canon to me.

This is coming from someone who overall enjoyed the sequels, so don’t accuse me of being a Disney hater or whatever. I understand why JJ did it, and I strongly disagree

I hate the concept of Darth Sidious having progeny in general, it completely goes against his nature.

To objectify women, sleep around, and sire as may offspring as possible, propogating his genes and proving what a stud he is?

Totally.

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

Make Off Topic great again.

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I’ve heard the 50 completed scripts thing too. If it’s true, it’s crazy it never got made, though I guess that’s how Lucas rolled. You almost have to think it’s a shame too? Unless it sucked of course. I wonder if they’d ever consider reviving the concept for D+, but I doubt it.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

liamnotneeson said:

The more I sit on it, the more I really hate Rey Palpatine. I really hate it- I wouldn’t even use hate to describe how I feel about what Johnson did to Luke in TLJ but I hate Rey Palpatine. The force dyad properly elaborated on would have been fully sufficient to explain Rey’s OP-ness, in my opinion. Rey being from nowhere was in retrospect completely in line with the Star Wars ethos and if episode XI had kept with it, and I think it would have allowed that fact to sit well with audiences.

Rey Palpatine never really sat right with me, even the first time I watched it. Once fan edits start coming out of TROS, whatever edit I chose will need to have Rey Palpatine scrapped, no exceptions, but that’s just my taste and my preference. Rey Palpatine will never be canon to me.

This is coming from someone who overall enjoyed the sequels, so don’t accuse me of being a Disney hater or whatever. I understand why JJ did it, and I strongly disagree

I hate the concept of Darth Sidious having progeny in general, it completely goes against his nature.

To objectify women, sleep around, and sire as may offspring as possible, propogating his genes and proving what a stud he is?

Totally.

More of a ‘build a cloned army and recruit to your side the product of your sexless telepathic Force conception attempt’. It kinda feels like he was doing everything he could to avoid sex.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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DominicCobb said:

The more I think of it the more I like the idea of bringing Palpatine back in some way (though not this way). If the ST is all about legacy, and the OT heroes all find the strength and confidence in their proteges to move on knowing the galaxy is in good hands, wouldn’t it be interesting if the antagonist is an old villain who absolutely refuses to move on in any way?

I think a simple way to have gone about this would’ve been what Matt Smith’s rumored role was to be, to have the spirit of Palpatine possess a host body, rather than have his literal body still be around. To be fair, it almost seems like his spirit is attached to his dead corpse, the white eyes make me thing that’s the idea, but it still a stretch to think his body remained in tact enough to extract from the ruins of the Death Star.

Something I honestly liked from Trevorrow’s script was Hux collecting lightsabers and other Jedi/Sith relics. I could see how his rivalry with Kylo Ren makes him wish he had that power to oppose him. You could’ve tied both things together by having Palpatine’s spirit calling out to Hux (maybe from Vader’s helmet aboard the Finalizer), and offer Hux unlimited power in return for being his host. It just ties into their rivalry well and after how much Hux was thrown around in TLJ, I could see him selling his soul to try and overcome Ren. And between them and the final confrontation, we could see Hux’s body become more like Sidious’ as the dark side quickly corrupts him, essentially destroying his body, and then Palpatine could throw him away and jump into a more suitable host.

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Just the thought of Palpy sitting there in a state of sexual readiness and saying to his lady friend “you want this…don’t you…”

Sorry mods, please don’t ban me…

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RogueLeader said:

DominicCobb said:

The more I think of it the more I like the idea of bringing Palpatine back in some way (though not this way). If the ST is all about legacy, and the OT heroes all find the strength and confidence in their proteges to move on knowing the galaxy is in good hands, wouldn’t it be interesting if the antagonist is an old villain who absolutely refuses to move on in any way?

I think a simple way to have gone about this would’ve been what Matt Smith’s rumored role was to be, to have the spirit of Palpatine possess a host body, rather than have his literal body still be around. To be fair, it almost seems like his spirit is attached to his dead corpse, the white eyes make me thing that’s the idea, but it still a stretch to think his body remained in tact enough to extract from the ruins of the Death Star.

Something I honestly liked from Trevorrow’s script was Hux collecting lightsabers and other Jedi/Sith relics. I could see how his rivalry with Kylo Ren makes him wish he had that power to oppose him. You could’ve tied both things together by having Palpatine’s spirit calling out to Hux (maybe from Vader’s helmet aboard the Finalizer), and offer Hux unlimited power in return for being his host. It just ties into their rivalry well and after how much Hux was thrown around in TLJ, I could see him selling his soul to try and overcome Ren. And between them and the final confrontation, we could see Hux’s body become more like Sidious’ as the dark side quickly corrupts him, essentially destroying his body, and then Palpatine could throw him away and jump into a more suitable host.

That’s an interesting idea with Hux. Personally I’m not sure how I feel about Trevorrow making Hux a force wannabe. Personally I like the idea of Hux as the symbol of the First Order as an institution and would personally keep him separate from the force stuff and have his story be more about the First Order’s fascism and kidnapping kids and all that.

On the force side, I think there’s a real missed opportunity with the Knights of Ren. I would have gone more the Trevorrow route there and made them the big antagonists, with a single figurehead. They were mostly a blank slate that they could have done anything with, which some people would say is not a great place for the final antagonist to be unestablished, but if you really went all in on making them be the dark side of Kylo Ren made manifest - a foil for his struggle - and had them be Luke’s other students, I think it’d totally work. Ultimately they should have formed Kylo’s main ideological conflict. At the end of TLJ, he’s gone full “kill the past” mode. But prior, he was worshipping Vader. If you made the Knights essentially Sith worshippers who want to restore that former power while Kylo wants to move forward and make something new, you’d have an interesting conflict right off the bat (and a place for the Knights to end up siding with Hux who wants to restore the Empire). Then you could work in Palpatine by having the Knights want to resurrect Palpatine and then one of them becoming his host.

Now one thing you bring up which is an interesting idea, is not actually seeing Palpatine’s old body. On the one hand, this would have felt somewhat fake and disappointing (‘trust us Palpatine’s spirit is definitely in this guy’s body’), but what if like you said, when his spirit takes over somebody’s body, their image becomes corrupted as well, and they don the exact facial melted makeup that McDiarmid did (and his voice too)? That’d suggest that the melted look really is Sidious’s true visage, and perhaps even that Palpatine was a separate person and merely a host for the dark lord as well.

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DominicCobb said:

I’ve heard the 50 completed scripts thing too. If it’s true, it’s crazy it never got made, though I guess that’s how Lucas rolled. You almost have to think it’s a shame too? Unless it sucked of course. I wonder if they’d ever consider reviving the concept for D+, but I doubt it.

My bet is that they’ve basically been parting it out for whatever they need.

But yeah, if they ever need a quick hit of content for their streaming network, it’s got to be very tempting to know the development process on a full 5 season series is already finished. Literally all you have to do is start shooting it.

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That’s a fair point, Dom! And I do think I would’ve preferred that image of Hux stabbing himself with a lightsaber as the First Order falls apart in the background. Maybe suicide would be too dark for a Star Wars movie, but I think it would’ve been a cool way for him to go out. I don’t think Hux had to have been a Force-wannabe to a lightsaber on display in his office or something.

I had similar thoughts about the Knights of Ren. You could have one that is the most prominent Knight, could’ve been Matt Smith, and he sort of becomes the de facto leader once they depose Kylo or Kylo turns back to the light. Not only could you give him the Palpatine make-up, but you could layer his voice with Ian McDiarmid’s. It could sort of sound like Palpatine’s voice when he baptizes Vader in Revenge of the Sith.

It is a shame that Trevorrow couldn’t work around Carrie’s passing. I liked the idea of the First Order pretty much blocking all communication, and using some device on Coruscant to send a message to the galaxy. Obviously they couldn’t do that message after Carrie passed, but I think it would’ve been a good opportunity for Poe to step up as leader. Imagine Leia sending a message to the galaxy was the plan, then she dies and the Resistance feels hopeless, but after some kind of optimistic conversation Poe decides to do what Leia would have done and send the message in her place. I think that would have been a fitting way to continue her legacy.

The entire climax could have taken place on Coruscant, with Poe leading a space battle above the planet, Finn leading the uprising on the surface, and Rey, Ben and the Knights of Ren facing off underneath the Jedi Temple.

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I kind of doubt Carrie’s passing was the only reason he was booted. Still a lot to the story we don’t know I think.