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Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * TROS SPOILERS WITHIN * — Page 12

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Hal 9000 said:

My biggest overall disappointment with the sequel trilogy is probably that it chose, perhaps not all at once, to pattern itself after the originals to the point that it retells the Empire vs Rebels story almost to a tee. It ends in essentially the same place as does ROTJ, feeling like it recapitulate the story rather than truly continuing it.

The most satisfying part for me has been Luke’s journey from traumatized recluse to revivified Jedi Master ready to nonviolently kick ass. It was a gift horse I looked in the mouth, but has been worth being patient for myself to appreciate. This is the diamond in the rough, woven into the soil of the retread that TFA set in motion.

And that’s why bringing back Darth Sidious destroys Anakin’s sacrifice and redemption in Return of the Jedi.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

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Rise of Skywalker and Lucasfilm’s / JJ’s lack of balls are the most disappointing things for me. So much wasted potential. RoS essentially made this trilogy pointless and lessened the drama of past films. I overall enjoyed the sequel trilogy up until IX.

Most satisfying things are how Kylo, Rey and Luke were handled, especially in TLJ.

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aBendyStraw said:

Rise of Skywalker and Lucasfilm’s / JJ’s lack of balls are the most disappointing things for me. So much wasted potential. RoS essentially made this trilogy pointless and lessened the drama of past films. I overall enjoyed the sequel trilogy up until IX.

Most satisfying things are how Kylo, Rey and Luke were handled, especially in TLJ.

I wish they would quit calling it Lucasfilm. It’s a slap to his face that they so disregard him while simultaneously lending these crap films his name.

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I really liked Rey’s Theme. Williams at, or near, the top of his game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65As1V0vQDM

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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Most disappointing was the world building never coming into its own, too much rehashing by the end it felt like a caricature of its former glory. Just realized the other day that Pasana makes yet another desert planet.

Most satisfying was Kylo, predictable answers but his really was the most developed of all the characters with the strongest execution.

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theprequelsrule said:

I really liked Rey’s Theme. Williams at, or near, the top of his game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65As1V0vQDM

No doubt, one of the best Star Wars themes to come along in decades. A fantastic piece to accompany what I thought (at the time) one of the most interesting characters to come along since I was a kid.

I’ve not made any secret of how disappointing she turned out, but I watch the intro to Rey portion of TFA somewhat regularly. For me, best 30 minutes of the ST.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

You’re killing me, Smalls.

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Anchorhead said:
I’ve not made any secret of how disappointing she turned out, but I watch the intro to Rey portion of TFA somewhat regularly. For me, best 30 minutes of the ST.

Yes, those early scenes with Rey are wonderfull; when I saw them I felt like this was Star Wars again. Too bad about what followed, eh?

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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I adored Reys introduction in TFA, i adored the chemistry between Poe and Finn, and i loved that movie in general… Its just the movies that followed did not stick the landing. In the end the most disappointing thing is the constant retconing of elements of the OT. Lukes receded as a character after a perfect Hero arc, Leia and Hans turn out to be loser dads and Vaders redemption was in vain. I have to do a mental exercise of notes to forget this trilogy existed.

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The most satisfying aspect was the simple fact, that technically these films are pretty much perfect. The designs, worlds, special effects, action sequences, sound design and the great acting match some of the best we’ve seen in Star Wars. Seriously, a the new cast is great and they did wonders with the material they had to work with.

The disappointment lies in the creative aspects of this set of films. There is no interesting story to tell, it feels like they tried to base the direction completely on opinion polls, memes and Reddit posts. And they failed spectacularly doing even that. The various backstories that are hinted at at various spots in the trilogy seem way more interesting than what we were actually watching. This has been a wasted opportunity and a textbook example of a mismanaged entertainments franchise.

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theprequelsrule said:

Most disappointing aspect is easy: it is completely redundant.

Really, what was the point of it all? The ST was compressed into one movie already: Return of the Jedi. So I guess I have to give Johnson credit for realizing that when he made TLJ and killed off Snoke - essentially saying “we already killed the Big Bad Guy 2 episodes ago remember?” TROS undid this and remade ROTJ - thus undermining Luke’s character arc, as well as Anakin’s (for those who consider the PT canon). Rey is now just Luke…only better (or worse - since Luke defeats evil with Faith/Love, while Rey uses lightning). Thanks to TROS the entire ST is just a reboot of the OT. NO POINT!!

Quoting myself is lame, but I wanted to add this quote (from a youtube comment of all things!)

“If you don’t stop at Return of the Jedi, you have to commit to perpetuity.”

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

theprequelsrule said:

Most disappointing aspect is easy: it is completely redundant.

Really, what was the point of it all? The ST was compressed into one movie already: Return of the Jedi. So I guess I have to give Johnson credit for realizing that when he made TLJ and killed off Snoke - essentially saying “we already killed the Big Bad Guy 2 episodes ago remember?” TROS undid this and remade ROTJ - thus undermining Luke’s character arc, as well as Anakin’s (for those who consider the PT canon). Rey is now just Luke…only better (or worse - since Luke defeats evil with Faith/Love, while Rey uses lightning). Thanks to TROS the entire ST is just a reboot of the OT. NO POINT!!

Quoting myself is lame, but I wanted to add this quote (from a youtube comment of all things!)

“If you don’t stop at Return of the Jedi, you have to commit to perpetuity.”

For me the most disappointing aspect is they worked this very thing - the perpetual nature of it all - into the story as a reason for extending beyond ROTJ, but then they completely undid it in TROS.

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Anchorhead said:

I’ve not made any secret of how disappointing she turned out, but I watch the intro to Rey portion of TFA somewhat regularly. For me, best 30 minutes of the ST.

The whole first act of TFA for me. Aside from the McaGuffin, the whole first act of TFA felt like a really original and intriguing story. It seems like after they meet up with Han and Chewy, that’s when things get really unoriginal

No offense, kid, but I don’t think you know how to boil water.

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Maybe I’m wrong, and I’m sure I’ll be told that if I am, but I feel like a really good Star Wars movie shouldn’t need multiple viewings to be loved. I feel like it didn’t take multiple viewings in 1977 for people to enjoy the original Star Wars. The sequel trilogy movies on their own are better movies than any of the prequel movies in my opinion, but the special spark, that Star Wars magic, is gone from these movies. That timeless, simple magic these movies are devoid of.

No offense, kid, but I don’t think you know how to boil water.

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liamnotneeson said:

Anchorhead said:

I’ve not made any secret of how disappointing she turned out, but I watch the intro to Rey portion of TFA somewhat regularly. For me, best 30 minutes of the ST.

The whole first act of TFA for me. Aside from the McaGuffin, the whole first act of TFA felt like a really original and intriguing story. It seems like after they meet up with Han and Chewy, that’s when things get really unoriginal

Yeah, that’s about where I always bail.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

You’re killing me, Smalls.

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Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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liamnotneeson said:

Maybe I’m wrong, and I’m sure I’ll be told that if I am, but I feel like a really good Star Wars movie shouldn’t need multiple viewings to be loved.

I agree fully, for any film. No doubt we’ve all seen the originals many many times, so too with the prequels for some people here. No denying a film can become more endearing and important with multiple viewings, that can often be part of the fun. Personally, with regard to multiple viewings in the theater, I’ve done that with more films than I can count. Sometimes I go a week later, every week, or I can’t wait to get back as soon as possible. That said, one thing I’ve never had to do was go see something a second and third time to decide whether or not I liked it.

These films, any film, shouldn’t be a chore. These aren’t required films and stories. They’re entertainment. If you have to labor at accepting it, something is off with the film or the story. Watch and enjoy what you like, ignore the rest. This whole canon level A, B, C, etc is ridiculous. None of this is real. Again, watch or ignore. You’re a paying customer, not an employee.

Same goes with EU to explain. If you have to buy two novels, a video game, and watch a making of documentary to understand what went on in the film, then the storytellers failed.

I’ve never understood this need to force all these films to work together and make canonical sense. Shame on Lucasfilm for perpetuating that crap with their canon levels and Legacy classifications. These are a series of films spanning 40 years. Enjoy what makes you happy and cut the rest loose.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

You’re killing me, Smalls.

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My most disappointing aspect of the Sequel Trilogy:

The decision to start the construction of the final chapter’s story around mad-libbing deleted scenes of Carrie Fisher into the film proper. That single decision was one of the biggest handcuffs on the story’s total potential, led to the almost complete erasure of Rose Tico from the story, and worst of all - never worked as intended. It was intended to be an honoring of Fisher’s work, and an homage to her and her character, and it came off as one of the biggest acts of storytelling childishness in The Rise of Skywalker: an almost petulant refusal to accept things had changed, and to move on in a healthy, meaningful way. A better tribute would have likely involved finding a way for the characters to acknowledge and figure out their own ways to fill that Leia-sized hole in their hearts, preferably in a way that actually pays tribute to the character in spirit and in meaning, as opposed to literally turning the character’s dead body into a prop for about a half hour of screentime.

My most satisfying aspect of the Sequel Trilogy:

Honestly, it really has to be Rey plucking the saber out of the snow. I rarely get full-on goosebump moments during movies. I acknowledge how special they are, but I usually don’t physically react unless the movie has really nailed a moment, above and beyond. Not only did that saber flying into Rey’s hand as “Burning Homestead” played induce chills and goosebumps on first view, it happened on the second and third view, too. It’s just such a perfect reveal, and the potential of the sequel trilogy is made blindingly apparent when she switches it on. Even knowing how her story ends, that moment is still satisfying.

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I don’t think any of TROS’s main problems derive from Leia’s role. The idea that it lead to Rose’s reduced role is just a poorly conceived excuse from Terrio.

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I think a lot of the film’s primary problems are due to making space for her deleted scenes as opposed to using that time to create new scenes. And Terrio’s “excuse” being valid or not, it still points to the idea that there are things this film couldn’t do because they were pre-occupied with keeping those deleted scenes. They boxed themselves in unnecessarily, and that box was extra small because they only had a few minutes of deleted scenes from which to build an entire plot around. Leia not being alive for this movie was never an option for Abrams and Terrio, and that rigidity was damaging to the film overall.

It was their first really big choice when it came to the storytelling, and they chose not to accept the truth of what had happened in 2016 and instead decided to look backwards as hard as they could and build everything else from that decision. It made for a dramatically unsatisfying character, and movie.

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I’m curious what you mean. I can’t think of much that those scenes did to box them in. There are a lot of choices they made that boxed them into a bad story but I don’t really see the negative effect of the Leia content. A lot of her dialogue is very ambiguous and her scenes are minimal and don’t feed very much into what’s going on. They could have done a lot with that footage.

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Leia being around was a key part of Kylo’s redemption, and they specifically tied her dying to his redemption. It seems pretty apparent to me they only wrote Kylo’s arc (which essentially superseded Rey’s arc in terms of importance) the way they did because they worked backwards from what would redeem him, and they decided his mother’s choice to kill herself by reaching out to him during that fight would be the catalyst.

So they kept her active in the plot by recycling footage and writing dialog to mad-lib their way to the end of the 2nd act, specifically because they needed that presence to register just enough for Kylo’s redemption to pay off as intended.

If anything, Terrio’s answer when he was trying to explain why Rose Tico got so minimized seemed to hint that their initial “We’re not going to CG her” was an out and out lie, (it kind of was already, considering that training scene) and I wouldn’t be surprised if Han’s appearance was similar to how Superman’s mother is who showed up in Superman II once Marlon Brando was cut out. “Well, we can’t CG Carrie for this scene, let’s see if Harrison will do it instead.”

So even setting aside the fact her scenes aren’t particularly good (and it’s fairly obvious she’s not really acting with anyone in the scene, and nobody in the scene is really acting with her) the initial decision to make her self-sacrifice key to Kylo’s redemption, to justify repurposing a bunch of deleted scenes, is what hemmed them in.

It’s why the movie is so plot-focused at the expense of any real feeling or thematic coherence. They approached it like a puzzle first and foremost instead of really exploring what they had to work with at the end of The Last Jedi and building from there. If your primary story question (and they kept saying keeping Carrie is where they actually started) isn’t “Where do I want my characters to go from here” but “How do I repurpose deleted scenes so they’re so vital to our endgame that you can’t remove them,” you’re starting from a pretty mercenary spot, even if you’re doing so with the best, most honorable intentions.

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Broom Kid said:

Leia being around was a key part of Kylo’s redemption, and they specifically tied her dying to his redemption. It seems pretty apparent to me they only wrote Kylo’s arc (which essentially superseded Rey’s arc in terms of importance) the way they did because they worked backwards from what would redeem him, and they decided his mother’s choice to kill herself by reaching out to him during that fight would be the catalyst.

So they kept her active in the plot by recycling footage and writing dialog to mad-lib their way to the end of the 2nd act, specifically because they needed that presence to register just enough for Kylo’s redemption to pay off as intended.

I’m still not sure I understand. I’d hardly rank Kylo’s redemption as one of the film’s primary problems, and I’m not sure how you can really link the problems with Rey’s arc to his, because those problems are really totally unrelated.

If anything, Terrio’s answer when he was trying to explain why Rose Tico got so minimized seemed to hint that their initial “We’re not going to CG her” was an out and out lie, (it kind of was already, considering that training scene) and I wouldn’t be surprised if Han’s appearance was similar to how Superman’s mother is who showed up in Superman II once Marlon Brando was cut out. “Well, we can’t CG Carrie for this scene, let’s see if Harrison will do it instead.”

Well, every Carrie scene is heavily touched by CGI. I don’t think anyone would deny that. Some scenes are going to work more than others, so it seems misguided to draw the assumption that they had tried to do a CGI Leia. I don’t really buy that they’d do that, and likely the scenes that were cut were inconsequential. The CG Leia in the training scene would have been CG whether Carrie was alive or not, which is likely how they justified its presence despite the fact they said they wouldn’t do CG Leia.

So even setting aside the fact her scenes aren’t particularly good (and it’s fairly obvious she’s not really acting with anyone in the scene, and nobody in the scene is really acting with her) the initial decision to make her self-sacrifice key to Kylo’s redemption, to justify repurposing a bunch of deleted scenes, is what hemmed them in.

It’s why the movie is so plot-focused at the expense of any real feeling or thematic coherence. They approached it like a puzzle first and foremost instead of really exploring what they had to work with at the end of The Last Jedi and building from there. If your primary story question (and they kept saying keeping Carrie is where they actually started) isn’t “Where do I want my characters to go from here” but “How do I repurpose deleted scenes so they’re so vital to our endgame that you can’t remove them,” you’re starting from a pretty mercenary spot, even if you’re doing so with the best, most honorable intentions.

But this is what I don’t understand, the scenes have nothing to do with the plot. Kylo Ren’s redemption through Leia has nothing to do with the plot. Unless you’re suggesting that they should have ditched his redemption if they ditched trying to include Carrie, but that’d be a terrible idea and I doubt that was ever in the cards. They’d have just found a different way to redeem him.

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Not sure how to make you understand, I guess. None of those other things are happening in a vaccuum with regards to the story. Starting with Carrie’s footage needing to be repurposed, and further deciding to make her self-sacrifice the reason he turns as the justification for keeping Carrie’s footage is just that: The start. That’s the foundation the rest of the story (and most of the decisions afterward) follow from. Those are the first two cards pinned to the board, and they never came off.

“They’d just have found a different way to redeem him” is part of my point - they should have, especially if choosing a different way would have meant doing the right thing and not repurposing deleted scenes “to honor” Carrie, especially since the result achieved nothing close to legitimately honoring her. I’m not arguing they shouldn’t have redeemed him. But by tying his redemption to reusing Carrie’s deleted scenes, they removed a ton of options, many of which would have likely been better than what they wound up with as a result.

I also don’t understand why you’re giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to “not doing a CG Leia” when they actually did it, and word is the sequence was even longer initially. I guess if you want to simplify my biggest disappointment, it’s that I’m disappointed they even tried to sidestep her actual death by making her final performance in Star Wars a bunch of strung-together deleted scenes that never worked in the finished film. The movie (and the filmmakers themselves) would have been better served by not looking backwards so hard and by looking forward instead.

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Broom Kid said:

Not sure how to make you understand, I guess. None of those other things are happening in a vaccuum with regards to the story. Starting with Carrie’s footage needing to be repurposed, and further deciding to make her self-sacrifice the reason he turns as the justification for keeping Carrie’s footage is just that: The start. That’s the foundation the rest of the story (and most of the decisions afterward) follow from. Those are the first two cards pinned to the board, and they never came off.

Obviously each scene necessarily effects the others. I guess what I’m saying those is I don’t see how the problematic aspects of the story are affected by this one aspect. I feel like there are a lot of different things they could have done while keeping this aspect intact. Obviously if you don’t like this aspect I can see how it’d be the “start” of the problems for you. But for me, the problems seem unrelated and avoidable, even with these scenes ‘locked in.’

I also don’t understand why you’re giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to “not doing a CG Leia” when they actually did it, and word is the sequence was even longer initially.

I guess I am giving them the benefit of the doubt simply because they didn’t really, except for that one scene which, as I said, they would have done as CG regardless.