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More Miniatures and models in each Star Wars prequels than entire OT

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 (Edited)

There are more miniatures and models in each Star Wars prequels than entire OT. The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true. I've seen people comment on TFN saying they prefer the original trilogy but still know there are more models and miniatures in the PT.

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So you have stated in three different threads today. We get it. No need to repeat yourself.

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Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

So you have stated in three different threads today. We get it. No need to repeat yourself.

 Oh but there is! People need to know that the prequels were awesome!

THEY NEED TO KNOW

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We have a low tolerance for thread spamming, just in case you're not joking.

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Where were you in '77?

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See, this is why we should have never cloned OBI-WAN.  The first few were reasonably stable, but into the teens they really started to go downhill, and now that we're almost up to 40 we've got them claiming things like "the prequels were awesome!"

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OBI-WAN37 said:

The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true.

 It's still true. There were tons of physical models AND too much CGI.

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Laserschwert said:

OBI-WAN37 said:

The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true.

 It's still true. There were tons of physical models AND too much CGI.

 Yet people never seem to mind the amount of CGI in say Avatar or the new Star Trek movies.

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OBI-WAN37 said:

There are more miniatures and models in each Star Wars prequels than entire OT. The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true. I've seen people comment on TFN saying they prefer the original trilogy but still know there are more models and miniatures in the PT.

 Oh no, this same old tired argument again. I really wish the Prequelites would at least do a little research before they start spouting this same crap over and over again to try and make the prequels sound great and that it wasn't overused CG


While it maybe true that there were more models/ miniatures built for the prequels. But "built" and "screen used" are two completely different things. There is also a huge difference between using a miniature for a set piece/ location and actually building a set or filming at a real location.

The OT was shot using real full sets. Filmed at locations. And NOT against a greenscreen or just a partial set that would need all the blanks filling in later. In the OT, for vehicles/ ships etc either a full scale set was built or for action sequences a miniature was built and filmed. For the PT, ONLY Phantom menace used models for these things. AOTC & ROTS, every vehicle/ ship was created in a computer. In fact whole sequences were created with 90%-100% CG.  These same scenes could have easily have used models and costumed actors. But no, they decided to create it in a computer. I'm surprised that AOTC and ROTS didn't get a nomination in the best animated feature category. For example.....

The only thing that existed in the real world was the ground. Everything else was created in a computer.

Just click on that picture and look at it in full-rez. It looks like a bloody cartoon. That shot is 100% CG and it shows. At least have the foreground characters be real costumed actors to add a little realism into the shot

Again, 100% CG. They even had models of the Trade Federation ships from TPM but went the digital route instead.

So the complaints about the overuse of CG is well justified.

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OBI-WAN37 said:

Laserschwert said:

OBI-WAN37 said:

The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true.

 It's still true. There were tons of physical models AND too much CGI.

 Yet people never seem to mind the amount of CGI in say Avatar or the new Star Trek movies.

Better movies and better CGI. At the beginning of the 2000s the amount of CGI in the prequels was just too much for ILM to handle with the care and quality they usually achieve.

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 (Edited)

adywan said:

OBI-WAN37 said:

There are more miniatures and models in each Star Wars prequels than entire OT. The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true. I've seen people comment on TFN saying they prefer the original trilogy but still know there are more models and miniatures in the PT.

 Oh no, this same old tired argument again. I really wish the Prequelites would at least do a little research before they start spouting this same crap over and over again to try and make the prequels sound great and that it wasn't overused CG


While it maybe true that there were more models/ miniatures built for the prequels. But "built" and "screen used" are two completely different things. There is also a huge difference between using a miniature for a set piece/ location and actually building a set or filming at a real location.

The OT was shot using real full sets. Filmed at locations. And NOT against a greenscreen or just a partial set that would need all the blanks filling in later. In the OT, for vehicles/ ships etc either a full scale set was built or for action sequences a miniature was built and filmed. For the PT, ONLY Phantom menace used models for these things. AOTC & ROTS, every vehicle/ ship was created in a computer. In fact whole sequences were created with 90%-100% CG.  These same scenes could have easily have used models and costumed actors. But no, they decided to create it in a computer. I'm surprised that AOTC and ROTS didn't get a nomination in the best animated feature category. For example.....

The only thing that existed in the real world was the ground. Everything else was created in a computer.

Just click on that picture and look at it in full-rez. It looks like a bloody cartoon. That shot is 100% CG and it shows. At least have the foreground characters be real costumed actors to add a little realism into the shot

Again, 100% CG. They even had models of the Trade Federation ships from TPM but went the digital route instead.

So the complaints about the overuse of CG is well justified.

 They did actually have a huge amount of real models that were screen used in the prequels. You can see them all in this thread ( http://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/ ) To name just a few: the AATs, the Eta-2 Class Jedi Starfighters, the life-size Anakin's podracer, which, although while racing was CGI, was filmed when it was stationary and unedited when so, that thing in the second picture down, a HUGE miniature city of Tatooine, the place where Obi-Wan was talking to those long-necked people, the streets of Coroscant, the Jedi Coucil Library, that place where the speeders were swerving around flames in episode II, the huts of the tusken raiders, those huge corridors in Geonosis, the Geonosian arena, Dooku's solar sailor, podracer station, the corridors of Naboo, that huge palace type thing in Naboo,  the hallways on Kamino, the Naboo royal starship, a dining room in the Trade Federation interior, that viewing platform for th podracing, buildings or huts on Tatooine, more lifesize podracers, corridors in the Invisible Hand, a huge amount of makeup for 7 or so aliens, dining room in Naboo in AotC, huge chunk of rocky terrain in AotC which Obi-Wan was standing on, Podracing stadium,landing bay in the invisible Hand, the Jedi Temple, LIFE SIZE naboo starfighter, which is a huge ship, C-3P0 skeleton, which involved puppetry, what looks like part of a LIFE SIZE Sebulba's podracer, or at least half of it huge interior of Mustafar building where Anakin killed the Separatists, breifing place for the Jedi in episode III, HUGE podracing arena (not just stadium, but arena), terrain for AotC battle of Geonosis, several puppets who drove podracers, Sebulba's podracer's cockpit, cargo bay in Episode I on Naboo with MATTE PAINTING behind it, and multiple other things which could have been (but I'm not sure) unedited in the prequels.

You cannot argue against that.

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Are we really going down this alley again?

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Where were you in '77?

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It's just a glitch in the Matrix. I'll send in Chancellor Goth dressed in a clowns costume to fix it.

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 (Edited)

I'm a big fan of practical set pieces and models but the CGI usage in the prequels is the deal breaker.  Of the three, TPM has the most natural feel to it.  I love the OT because of it's natural elements including the models and set pieces.  The prequels have very little natural environment to them as a whole.  They remind me of digital cartoons and the dialog is sketchy at best from film to film.  I believe TPM to be my choice in the like department because it's Liam Neeson delivering them yet they kept him confined. 

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 (Edited)

I don't find Liam Neeson compelling at all in TPM.

He comes across as tired and bit confused. Ian McDiarmid and Pernilla August seem to be the only actors in that film that is doing anything right. 

A better child actor

with her as his mother could have carried a whole film and Ian only drops the ball when the Halloween mask is put on him in ROTS.

I don't care what's CGI and what's practical.

George derided Godzilla (1998) by saying "story matters".

Godzilla (1998) for all it's faults is a much better film than any of the Star Wars prequels in the form they currently take. The characters are better drawn, the situations feel more immediate and it's got a story that sort of makes sense.

Even if at it's worst it looks like Barney running around a warehouse full of tall boxes.

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I see that the proverbial itch is back. Wasn't it supposed to be permanently banned?

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OBI-WAN37 said:

adywan said:

OBI-WAN37 said:

There are more miniatures and models in each Star Wars prequels than entire OT. The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true. I've seen people comment on TFN saying they prefer the original trilogy but still know there are more models and miniatures in the PT.

 Oh no, this same old tired argument again. I really wish the Prequelites would at least do a little research before they start spouting this same crap over and over again to try and make the prequels sound great and that it wasn't overused CG


While it maybe true that there were more models/ miniatures built for the prequels. But "built" and "screen used" are two completely different things. There is also a huge difference between using a miniature for a set piece/ location and actually building a set or filming at a real location.

The OT was shot using real full sets. Filmed at locations. And NOT against a greenscreen or just a partial set that would need all the blanks filling in later. In the OT, for vehicles/ ships etc either a full scale set was built or for action sequences a miniature was built and filmed. For the PT, ONLY Phantom menace used models for these things. AOTC & ROTS, every vehicle/ ship was created in a computer. In fact whole sequences were created with 90%-100% CG.  These same scenes could have easily have used models and costumed actors. But no, they decided to create it in a computer. I'm surprised that AOTC and ROTS didn't get a nomination in the best animated feature category. For example.....

The only thing that existed in the real world was the ground. Everything else was created in a computer.

Just click on that picture and look at it in full-rez. It looks like a bloody cartoon. That shot is 100% CG and it shows. At least have the foreground characters be real costumed actors to add a little realism into the shot

Again, 100% CG. They even had models of the Trade Federation ships from TPM but went the digital route instead.

So the complaints about the overuse of CG is well justified.

 They did actually have a huge amount of real models that were screen used in the prequels. You can see them all in this thread ( http://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/ ) To name just a few: the AATs, the Eta-2 Class Jedi Starfighters, the life-size Anakin's podracer, which, although while racing was CGI, was filmed when it was stationary and unedited when so, that thing in the second picture down, a HUGE miniature city of Tatooine, the place where Obi-Wan was talking to those long-necked people, the streets of Coroscant, the Jedi Coucil Library, that place where the speeders were swerving around flames in episode II, the huts of the tusken raiders, those huge corridors in Geonosis, the Geonosian arena, Dooku's solar sailor, podracer station, the corridors of Naboo, that huge palace type thing in Naboo,  the hallways on Kamino, the Naboo royal starship, a dining room in the Trade Federation interior, that viewing platform for th podracing, buildings or huts on Tatooine, more lifesize podracers, corridors in the Invisible Hand, a huge amount of makeup for 7 or so aliens, dining room in Naboo in AotC, huge chunk of rocky terrain in AotC which Obi-Wan was standing on, Podracing stadium,landing bay in the invisible Hand, the Jedi Temple, LIFE SIZE naboo starfighter, which is a huge ship, C-3P0 skeleton, which involved puppetry, what looks like part of a LIFE SIZE Sebulba's podracer, or at least half of it huge interior of Mustafar building where Anakin killed the Separatists, breifing place for the Jedi in episode III, HUGE podracing arena (not just stadium, but arena), terrain for AotC battle of Geonosis, several puppets who drove podracers, Sebulba's podracer's cockpit, cargo bay in Episode I on Naboo with MATTE PAINTING behind it, and multiple other things which could have been (but I'm not sure) unedited in the prequels.

You cannot argue against that.

 And this makes the prequels not suck because…?

And, meanwhile, I can provide several reasons why they do.

  • Lack of meaningful reactions by the actors
  • Lack of creative, eloquent, or snappy dialogue
  • Too much reliance on having seen the original films
  • Fan service
  • Underwritten and under-conceived screenplays that writer of said screenplays never seemed to allow major changes on that were not his own
  • Slow pacing that feels slow because the content is uninteresting
  • Dull, repetitive scores
  • Lack of any fun or enjoyment (except for maybe a COUPLE lightsaber duels)
  • Disassociated acting
  • Non-immersive cinematography

and that's off the top of my head.

Your rebuttal?

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Oh and George, Ric McCallum and the rest of the crew thought TPM was cr*p too (Not just OT fans). Anybody got a link to that footage of them in stunned and horrified silence for a few seconds after the first private screening?

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I wonder if Rick McCallum is in real life like he is in the interviews or if he's just trying to save his job by not saying the truth of what he thinks.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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 (Edited)

Tack said:

OBI-WAN37 said:

adywan said:

OBI-WAN37 said:

There are more miniatures and models in each Star Wars prequels than entire OT. The whole "there's too much CGI" is not true. I've seen people comment on TFN saying they prefer the original trilogy but still know there are more models and miniatures in the PT.

 Oh no, this same old tired argument again. I really wish the Prequelites would at least do a little research before they start spouting this same crap over and over again to try and make the prequels sound great and that it wasn't overused CG


While it maybe true that there were more models/ miniatures built for the prequels. But "built" and "screen used" are two completely different things. There is also a huge difference between using a miniature for a set piece/ location and actually building a set or filming at a real location.

The OT was shot using real full sets. Filmed at locations. And NOT against a greenscreen or just a partial set that would need all the blanks filling in later. In the OT, for vehicles/ ships etc either a full scale set was built or for action sequences a miniature was built and filmed. For the PT, ONLY Phantom menace used models for these things. AOTC & ROTS, every vehicle/ ship was created in a computer. In fact whole sequences were created with 90%-100% CG.  These same scenes could have easily have used models and costumed actors. But no, they decided to create it in a computer. I'm surprised that AOTC and ROTS didn't get a nomination in the best animated feature category. For example.....

The only thing that existed in the real world was the ground. Everything else was created in a computer.

Just click on that picture and look at it in full-rez. It looks like a bloody cartoon. That shot is 100% CG and it shows. At least have the foreground characters be real costumed actors to add a little realism into the shot

Again, 100% CG. They even had models of the Trade Federation ships from TPM but went the digital route instead.

So the complaints about the overuse of CG is well justified.

 They did actually have a huge amount of real models that were screen used in the prequels. You can see them all in this thread ( http://boards.theforce.net/threads/practical-effects-in-the-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/ ) To name just a few: the AATs, the Eta-2 Class Jedi Starfighters, the life-size Anakin's podracer, which, although while racing was CGI, was filmed when it was stationary and unedited when so, that thing in the second picture down, a HUGE miniature city of Tatooine, the place where Obi-Wan was talking to those long-necked people, the streets of Coroscant, the Jedi Coucil Library, that place where the speeders were swerving around flames in episode II, the huts of the tusken raiders, those huge corridors in Geonosis, the Geonosian arena, Dooku's solar sailor, podracer station, the corridors of Naboo, that huge palace type thing in Naboo,  the hallways on Kamino, the Naboo royal starship, a dining room in the Trade Federation interior, that viewing platform for th podracing, buildings or huts on Tatooine, more lifesize podracers, corridors in the Invisible Hand, a huge amount of makeup for 7 or so aliens, dining room in Naboo in AotC, huge chunk of rocky terrain in AotC which Obi-Wan was standing on, Podracing stadium,landing bay in the invisible Hand, the Jedi Temple, LIFE SIZE naboo starfighter, which is a huge ship, C-3P0 skeleton, which involved puppetry, what looks like part of a LIFE SIZE Sebulba's podracer, or at least half of it huge interior of Mustafar building where Anakin killed the Separatists, breifing place for the Jedi in episode III, HUGE podracing arena (not just stadium, but arena), terrain for AotC battle of Geonosis, several puppets who drove podracers, Sebulba's podracer's cockpit, cargo bay in Episode I on Naboo with MATTE PAINTING behind it, and multiple other things which could have been (but I'm not sure) unedited in the prequels.

You cannot argue against that.

 And this makes the prequels not suck because…?

And, meanwhile, I can provide several reasons why they do.

  • Lack of meaningful reactions by the actors
  • Lack of creative, eloquent, or snappy dialogue
  • Too much reliance on having seen the original films
  • Fan service
  • Underwritten and under-conceived screenplays that writer of said screenplays never seemed to allow major changes on that were not his own
  • Slow pacing that feels slow because the content is uninteresting
  • Dull, repetitive scores
  • Lack of any fun or enjoyment (except for maybe a COUPLE lightsaber duels)
  • Disassociated acting
  • Non-immersive cinematography

and that's off the top of my head.

Your rebuttal?

I know exactly what he's going to say.

1. I think the actors had very meaningful reactions

2. I think the dialogue was very creative, eloquent, and snappy

3. That's because they reflect one another like poetry

4. What's wrong with fan service? I like fan service

5. I don't think they were underwritten or underconceived. Besides, no major changes were needed -- George's vision was perfect

6. I don't think the pacing was too slow or that the content was uninteresting

7. I don't think the scores were dull or repetitive

8. I had fun and enjoyment

9. I don't think the acting was disassociated

10. I found the cinematography very immersive

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Tack said:

I wonder if Rick McCallum is in real life like he is in the interviews or if he's just trying to save his job by not saying the truth of what he thinks.

 I'd bet years down the line, when the fear of reprisal from Lucasfilm has lessened, (because Disney won't care) he writes a tell all book. ;)

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Where were you in '77?

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Ryan McAvoy said:

Oh and George, Ric McCallum and the rest of the crew thought TPM was cr*p too (Not just OT fans). Anybody got a link to that footage of them in stunned and horrified silence for a few seconds after the first private screening?

I remember seeing it in the RLM video, I think in the part discussing how Phantom's final battle had four simultaneous plot threads.

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Lucas to me is like the successful version of M. Night Shyamalan.

Lucas' early films like SW, American Graffiti, or Indiana Jones, are essentially his The Sixth Sense and Unbreakables.

Lucas has not had his The Last Airbender or After Earth.

The prequels were Lucas' Signs and Lady in the Water, and Red Tails was his The Happening.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Tack said:

Lucas to me is like the successful version of M. Night Shyamalan.

Lucas' early films like SW, American Graffiti, or Indiana Jones, are essentially his The Sixth Sense and Unbreakables.

Lucas has not had his The Last Airbender or After Earth.

The prequels were Lucas' Signs and Lady in the Water, and Red Tails was his The Happening.

 ^ Implying that Shyamalamadingdong isn't (inexplicably) successful.

And I can't think of anyone who continues kissing Shyamalan's ass and insists that TLA is brilliant no matter how much CGI is used in it, and in fact, it has more real people and miniatures and models than the original animated series, therefore it's BETTER (and don't forget The Great Divide; QED).