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Mono soundtracks that were butchered with 5.1 remixes in later releases

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I started this thread to get into light at how audio preservation just matters as much as video. So in this thread I think that some movies you think that were originally released in mono that were destroyed in later video releases can be listed here as to get them into light.

Examples I would include are: Gone in 60 Seconds (1974), American Werewolf in London, The Blues Brothers, and Animal House.

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Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

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crissrudd4554 said:

Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

though fortunately for at least most of these movies the original mono/dolby mix was provided alongside the 5.1 version on their blu ray releases (Terminator being the only exception), though for Grease the original Dolby mix finally resurfaced in 5.1 form on the recent 40th anniversary release

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SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

though fortunately for at least most of these movies the original mono/dolby mix was provided alongside the 5.1 version on their blu ray releases (Terminator being the only exception), though for Grease the original Dolby mix finally resurfaced in 5.1 form on the recent 40th anniversary release

It was based off an original six track mix which I believe was only used in a preview showing. The general release had a two channel stereo mix.

Additionally some BD releases of Halloween and Mad Max have mono tracks that are actually downmixes of the surround track. The recent UHD release of Halloween sadly is one of them.

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crissrudd4554 said:

Additionally some BD releases of Halloween and Mad Max have mono tracks that are actually downmixes of the surround track. The recent UHD release of Halloween sadly is one of them.

Yeah, don’t be fooled by studios simply claiming that the original tracks are included. Superman: The Movie is one of those where the first few BR releases claimed to have the theatrical stereo when it was really a fold-down of the modern remix.

Then there’s also the fact that a lot of times, when original mixes are provided, they’re in much lower quality (say, 192kbps AC3) compared to the modern remix (often lossless). Older laserdisc releases’ uncompressed PCM audio will often be superior, even if it’s the same mix.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Additionally some BD releases of Halloween and Mad Max have mono tracks that are actually downmixes of the surround track. The recent UHD release of Halloween sadly is one of them.

Then there’s also the fact that a lot of times, when original mixes are provided, they’re in much lower quality (say, 192kbps AC3) compared to the modern remix (often lossless). Older laserdisc releases’ uncompressed PCM audio will often be superior, even if it’s the same mix.

This is partly why I prefer the mono for Jaws on the 2005 DVD in spite of its minor imperfections over the mono track included on the BD.

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ChainsawAsh said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Additionally some BD releases of Halloween and Mad Max have mono tracks that are actually downmixes of the surround track. The recent UHD release of Halloween sadly is one of them.

Yeah, don’t be fooled by studios simply claiming that the original tracks are included. Superman: The Movie is one of those where the first few BR releases claimed to have the theatrical stereo when it was really a fold-down of the modern remix.

Then there’s also the fact that a lot of times, when original mixes are provided, they’re in much lower quality (say, 192kbps AC3) compared to the modern remix (often lossless). Older laserdisc releases’ uncompressed PCM audio will often be superior, even if it’s the same mix.

I actually did do some deep research into this topic and here’s what I’ve figured out. The 2000 DVD release that only has the extended version is where the 5.1 remix first surfaced, then finally an anthology DVD set in 2006 included both versions and the theatrical version disk was supposed to also include the original 2.0 mix but was a down fold like you said earlier, so this led to Warner Home Video issuing corrected disks with the right 2.0 mix. The 2006 Blu-ray release once again only contains the extended version with only a 5.1 remix provided. In 2011 an Anthology Blu-ray was issued that once again brings all the movies together and both versions of Superman 1 and 2 were included. The disk for the theatrical version of the original Superman includes both a 5.1 remix and a 2.0 mix (both encoded in a lossless DTS-HD form). Warner Home Video swore that the 2.0 mix was the original theatrical mix and even says “English 2.0 (original theatrical)” if you go to the audio choices on the main menu of the theatrical version disk. Finally when the recent 4K release happened, Warner went back to the original elements by scanning the original negative in 4K, and making a new Dolby Atmos soundtrack that Warner took from the original sound elements which supposedly ignores the 5.1 remix from 2000.

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Actually, the Atmos mix is a remix of the 2000 remix, it has all the same shitty new aspects of the remix - BUT the 5.1 AC3 included on the same disc is the original 1978 70mm six-track mix, not the 2000 remix!

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

Actually, the Atmos mix is a remix of the 2000 remix, it has all the same shitty new aspects of the remix - BUT the 5.1 AC3 included on the same disc is the original 1978 70mm six-track mix, not the 2000 remix!

yea I was a little suspicious about the Atmos mix being from the 2000 remix, but at least the original 1978 mix is included as well on that disk

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SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

though fortunately for at least most of these movies the original mono/dolby mix was provided alongside the 5.1 version on their blu ray releases (Terminator being the only exception), though for Grease the original Dolby mix finally resurfaced in 5.1 form on the recent 40th anniversary release

Ah good, I hope the 40th Anniversary Grease has the original “Hopelessly Devoted” without background vocals. I have the laserdisc and VHS with the original Dolby.

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kchrules said:

SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

though fortunately for at least most of these movies the original mono/dolby mix was provided alongside the 5.1 version on their blu ray releases (Terminator being the only exception), though for Grease the original Dolby mix finally resurfaced in 5.1 form on the recent 40th anniversary release

Ah good, I hope the 40th Anniversary Grease has the original “Hopelessly Devoted” without background vocals. I have the laserdisc and VHS with the original Dolby.

I can confirm the 40th anniversary version gets rid of every single issue regarding the previous 5.1 remix made back in 1998. (replaced sound effects, song revisions, etc.)

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kchrules said:

SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

though fortunately for at least most of these movies the original mono/dolby mix was provided alongside the 5.1 version on their blu ray releases (Terminator being the only exception), though for Grease the original Dolby mix finally resurfaced in 5.1 form on the recent 40th anniversary release

Ah good, I hope the 40th Anniversary Grease has the original “Hopelessly Devoted” without background vocals. I have the laserdisc and VHS with the original Dolby.

The mix on the new release is from the an original six track mix. None of the changes made for the 1998 mix are present.

https://youtu.be/cuXu4e-tozs

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any which way you can
every which way but loose
5.1 mixes with new SFX

here’s to sugar on the strawberries.

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crissrudd4554 said:

kchrules said:

SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

though fortunately for at least most of these movies the original mono/dolby mix was provided alongside the 5.1 version on their blu ray releases (Terminator being the only exception), though for Grease the original Dolby mix finally resurfaced in 5.1 form on the recent 40th anniversary release

Ah good, I hope the 40th Anniversary Grease has the original “Hopelessly Devoted” without background vocals. I have the laserdisc and VHS with the original Dolby.

The mix on the new release is from the an original six track mix. None of the changes made for the 1998 mix are present.

https://youtu.be/cuXu4e-tozs

That’s amazing. It even has the old paramount music. Definitely gonna have to invest in it

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kchrules said:

crissrudd4554 said:

kchrules said:

SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

though fortunately for at least most of these movies the original mono/dolby mix was provided alongside the 5.1 version on their blu ray releases (Terminator being the only exception), though for Grease the original Dolby mix finally resurfaced in 5.1 form on the recent 40th anniversary release

Ah good, I hope the 40th Anniversary Grease has the original “Hopelessly Devoted” without background vocals. I have the laserdisc and VHS with the original Dolby.

The mix on the new release is from the an original six track mix. None of the changes made for the 1998 mix are present.

https://youtu.be/cuXu4e-tozs

That’s amazing. It even has the old paramount music. Definitely gonna have to invest in it

Yep. Well worth the purchase. Some have mixed feelings on the color timing of this release but it frankly doesn’t bother me that much. My only pet peeve though some may call this an advantage is the blurred Coke posters have now been digitally replaced by Pepsi posters. It’s not bad but a bit hastily done in a few spots. If only they could just present the original film sans the blurs but I guess the blurs were permanently cut into the negative.

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crissrudd4554 said:

kchrules said:

crissrudd4554 said:

kchrules said:

SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Jaws
Terminator
Halloween
Psycho
Mad Max

There’s also been examples such as Grease and Scarface where although the original mixes were not mono they still were given 5.1 remixes later on that completely revised everything.

though fortunately for at least most of these movies the original mono/dolby mix was provided alongside the 5.1 version on their blu ray releases (Terminator being the only exception), though for Grease the original Dolby mix finally resurfaced in 5.1 form on the recent 40th anniversary release

Ah good, I hope the 40th Anniversary Grease has the original “Hopelessly Devoted” without background vocals. I have the laserdisc and VHS with the original Dolby.

The mix on the new release is from the an original six track mix. None of the changes made for the 1998 mix are present.

https://youtu.be/cuXu4e-tozs

That’s amazing. It even has the old paramount music. Definitely gonna have to invest in it

Yep. Well worth the purchase. Some have mixed feelings on the color timing of this release but it frankly doesn’t bother me that much. My only pet peeve though some may call this an advantage is the blurred Coke posters have now been digitally replaced by Pepsi posters. It’s not bad but a bit hastily done in a few spots. If only they could just present the original film sans the blurs but I guess the blurs were permanently cut into the negative.

Yeah, I remember reading about that a while back. I had the 1998 DVD forever and I assumed it was just a rights thing. Looked it up and yeah, it was blurred in theaters because of a Pepsi deal. Now I have the 1981 laserdisc as well and it even has the Coke logo blurred. The “rockin’ rydell” blu-ray replaced it with the design on the blue wallpaper of the burger place. It looks pretty bad now I think, I’d prefer the blurred sign. I’ll bet the new Pepsi ad/logo is much better than the rockin rydell background.

In terms of some sound mixes that bother me, I watched the blu Ray of The Naked Gun recently and I was pleased they kept all the 80s sound effects/gunshots etc but the background music in the 5.1 is mixed WAY too loud. Like distractingly loud. I had to turn up the volume to hear dialogue and turn it way down once action or a big music cue happened. I have the laserdisc of Naked Gun as well so I can rip that at some point soon.

Also I saw Psycho was mentioned on this thread. I have the laserdisc of that as well so I can probably get the sound from that one as well.

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kchrules said:

Also I saw Psycho was mentioned on this thread. I have the laserdisc of that as well so I can probably get the sound from that one as well.

I loathe everything about Grease, but Psycho is something I’d be very interested in!

a trolling bantha

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I have read that Smokey and the Bandit and The Jerk had changes done to their surround mixes. The 40th Anniversary BD of Smokey fortunately includes the mono. Shout is rereleasing The Jerk on BD in a few weeks but it’s yet to be confirmed if the mono is included.

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The thing I hate is American Werewolf in London, Blues Brothers, and Animal House all had alterations on their 5.1 remixes (re-recorded sound effects) on the blu ray releases, yet it was kept extremely quiet. I listened to some portions with the foreign language tracks that replicated the original mono mixes with the exception of the English dialog being overdubbed, and they were so much better that way. American Werewolf had it the worst by having the pitch tuned down slightly as well, which resulted in the actors and music sounding slightly lower than normal.

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Some other examples of movies with altered sound effects:

The Godfather (I and II): The first two Godfather films have had several alterations in recent releases, such as ambient wind and birds.

H.B. Halicki’s entire filmography: The late director responsible for Gone in 60 Seconds, The Junkman, and Deadline Auto Theft, would have cried if he saw the numerous audio changes made to every single one of his movies. Not only have all the sound effects been altered, but Gone In 60 Seconds also has new, inferior music, along with several missing scenes (including most instances of profanity!). His widow is the one responsible for these changes, and she has outright refused all requests for an unaltered release.

Dirty Harry series: Among the most infamous stereo remixes in terms of changes made, all of the films in this series were butchered when released on DVD. Sadly, the Blu-Rays do not include their original soundtracks, so your best bet with these would be the Laserdiscs.

An American Werewolf in London: The film was remastered in stereo in 2001 for its 20th anniversary. Unfortunately, this meant that all of the sound effects were replaced, and the audio has also been slowed down for some strange reason. This is another film that didn’t get its original soundtrack on Blu-Ray, but its very first DVD release from 1997 does include it.

Smokey and the Bandit: Another film with altered sounds for its stereo remix, but luckily, the recent Blu-Ray features the mono.

1941: The “Director’s Cut” of this Spielberg bomb has a few slight sound additions.

Duel: Spielberg’s first film has also been ruined by its remastered version. I don’t know what sounds they added or changed, as I haven’t seen the movie. I’m guessing they changed the truck’s horn or something like that.

Halloween (1978): Apparently, modern thunder noises have been added. They also added tons of atmospheric insect sounds in the nighttime scenes. When Annie is inside of her car, you can still hear the insects even though she is supposed to be inside.

Mad Max: Severe alterations in the 5.1 mix, and there are even some original ones that have gone missing!

Psycho: Tons of added foley to scenes that are supposed to be silent. The worst thing is that this even includes the famous shower scene, where they added new water foley effects and squeaky faucets.

In The Heat of The Night: I have never seen this movie, but it apparently suffered a lot when remixed in stereo. This includes annoying ambience sounds (they added a distant train horn, for Christ’s sake!), and horribly reverbed audio (Ray Charles now sounds like he’s singing in a bathroom).

The Sound of Music: Not only are there modern thunder and rain sounds at one point, but some original sounds are absent!

Vertigo: One of the most infamous remixes of all time. The 5.0 remix on Blu-Ray removes most of the added foley (gunshots and footsteps), but there’s still some ambient wind sounds.

Rocky (the first film): Added foley and out-of-place reverb (why is there reverb in a parking lot?).

The French Connection: New car sounds and city ambience. Luckily, the Blu-Ray includes the mono track.

Evil Dead (the original): Several random sounds are missing in the stereo remix, possibly a side effect of the severe noise reduction applied. I’m not sure if the Blu-Ray features the mono or not.

The Conversation: Added foley, which has the result of making everything sound too busy. This one also has the mono track included on Blu-Ray.

Chinatown: Pretty much every time a gun is fired gets changed, as well as every scene of Jack Nicholson in a car. Another one where they have the mono included on Blu-Ray.

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid: Another awful mess of added foley and insect noises. Even when the characters are inside with closed windows, you can still hear the insects! Horse hoof noises are also replaced, as well as all the explosions. The mono is featured on this Blu-Ray, too, but only on the American release.

Barry Lyndon: More altered explosion sounds.

My Favorite Brunette: According to an irate Amazon customer, the Blu-Ray released by Kino has added modern foley effects such as doors opening and paper crinkling.

Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory: This anime classic received a 5.0 remix with different sound effects that are totally out of place for something that was originally released in the 80s.

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Worth noting the 2018 Criterion Blu-Ray release of Barry Lyndon has the original mono track.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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The other big problem with The French Connection’s surround mix is that the sounds effects, especially gunfire, are extremely loud compared to the music and dialogue. Thank heaven they had the good sense to include the mono (and to redo the color timing with Owen Roizman for the second Blu-ray release).

That’s impossible, even for a computer.

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I have the Blu Ray of Godfather 1 and it has the Mono as an extra audio track.