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'Merge' Article- Lucas in his own words — Page 3

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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Why then does Luke have a force connection with her in ESB, which was the same film that had Leia kissing Luke and (in a cut scene) they had a passionate kiss?

We've been through this countless times.

Who says it's a force connection? Since when does a jedi (or trainee jedi) require a connection with a certain person in order to communicate with them through the force? Siblings or not, Luke and Leia are close. Who else was he gonna reach out to on the falcon to save him? Threepio? Nope. Lando who he's never even met? Nope. Chewie? Well, maybe, but surely Leia's the first choice. Stop making excuses for Lucas (and stop belive the excuses he's given to you)

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Why then does Luke have a force connection with her in ESB, which was the same film that had Leia kissing Luke and (in a cut scene) they had a passionate kiss?

We've been through this countless times.

Who says it's a force connection? Since when does a jedi (or trainee jedi) require a connection with a certain person in order to communicate with them through the force? Siblings or not, Luke and Leia are close. Who else was he gonna reach out to on the falcon to save him? Threepio? Nope. Lando who he's never even met? Nope. Chewie? Well, maybe, but surely Leia's the first choice. Stop making excuses for Lucas (and stop belive the excuses he's given to you)


He called to Obi-Wan, who would not help him. So he called out to Leia. If Leia didn't hear him, then he was screwed.
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THREAD DERAIL:

How do you think Luke got his X-Wing back? He left it there on Cloud City. Did he go back and fight the Emperials who had taken over the city to get his craft back? Or was that a new X-Wing we saw in ROTJ.

My theory, is that the Emperials left the city after Landa high tailed it out of there and Luke got dropped off by Leia so he could pick up his fighter.


And I have never had a problem with the whole Luke/Leia love triangle. It makes perfect sense to me. Who cares if Lucas didn't plan it from the beginning. The plot line works. Role with it baby.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
My theory, is that the Emperials left the city after Landa high tailed it out of there and Luke got dropped off by Leia so he could pick up his fighter.
One handed flying - I guess Luke really was a good pilot.

War does not make one great.

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Who says it's a force connection? Since when does a jedi (or trainee jedi) require a connection with a certain person in order to communicate with them through the force? Siblings or not, Luke and Leia are close. Who else was he gonna reach out to on the falcon to save him? Threepio? Nope. Lando who he's never even met? Nope. Chewie? Well, maybe, but surely Leia's the first choice. Stop making excuses for Lucas (and stop belive the excuses he's given to you)

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Just think if he called to Chewy on the Millenium Falcon instead of Leia, and Chewy heard him through the force, Han Solo was the only one who could understand him. You would have this crazy wookie howling in wookie language, "Go back, we have to save Luke! Go Back!" And Lando & Leia, not understanding a damn word he his howling, would shrug at each other, "Maybe he's really hungry or something Lando."
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Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
THREAD DERAIL:

How do you think Luke got his X-Wing back? He left it there on Cloud City. Did he go back and fight the Emperials who had taken over the city to get his craft back? Or was that a new X-Wing we saw in ROTJ.

My theory, is that the Emperials left the city after Landa high tailed it out of there and Luke got dropped off by Leia so he could pick up his fighter.


And I have never had a problem with the whole Luke/Leia love triangle. It makes perfect sense to me. Who cares if Lucas didn't plan it from the beginning. The plot line works. Role with it baby.


He probably just got a new one.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi

..according to Lucas...blah blah blah..... I can accept this.

That's why Lucas continues to shrink and ruin the stories and offers up blatant lies as explanations - because there's plent of people that will drink whatever Kool Aid he gives them. Lucas needs guys like AWK, even when they aren't trolling and baiting on fan forums.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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You guys are whiners... first you want the O-OT. Okay, fine, no problemo. That's the cause the website is fighting for. But now you're complaining about the ever so-great and important childhood memory that is the O-OT too? Don't like Lucas? Don't want his movies. They are his and he can do anything he wants to do, which probably includes ignoring all this BS about a goddamn 20+ year old movie. Christ, some people can't be satisfied...

Just what is the problem? If you saw a 19-year old Carrie Fisher (who much later turned out to be your sister) wandering around in a loose white dress wearing no undergarments, I think you would grab the chance too! So lay off Luke and Leia - if there are any true perverts in this story, it is Yoda and Obi-Wan ("Sure we shouldn't tell them?", "Let's watch them make out first. Funnier it will be! Mhehehehehe!")
"The things that stick in my mind and make me laugh were, like, memos worried about whether or not the Wookie should have pants. They're looking at this thing and saying, "Couldn't he have some lederhosen?" This is great. Of all the things to worry about, the Wookie has no pants." -Mark Hamill
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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi

..according to Lucas...blah blah blah..... I can accept this.

That's why Lucas continues to shrink and ruin the stories and offers up blatant lies as explanations - because there's plent of people that will drink whatever Kool Aid he gives them. Lucas needs guys like AWK, even when they aren't trolling and baiting on fan forums.


YES. He does need people like me. I. LIKE. HIS. STORIES. And this site has taken on a depressing, cynical tone lately. It is so anti-PT/SE and pro-Lucas bashing that it is discouraging. So, Anchorhead, if you have a problem with my enjoyment of Lucas' stories, then you can go fuck yourself. I happen to enjoy what "kool aid" he gives us, and if you don't, then fine, I have no problem with that and nothing against you. But don't go criticizing me for liking it. If we just co-exist with our different opinions, then there is no harm done.
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I loved the Kool Aid Lucas gave me. Till he pissed in it.

War does not make one great.

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Just what is the problem? If you saw a 19-year old Carrie Fisher (who much later turned out to be your sister) wandering around in a loose white dress wearing no undergarments, I think you would grab the chance too! So lay off Luke and Leia - if there are any true perverts in this story, it is Yoda and Obi-Wan ("Sure we shouldn't tell them?", "Let's watch them make out first. Funnier it will be! Mhehehehehe!")

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Yeah, but those hair buns were so out of style by the time the empire took over, they were soooo in when the republic ruled.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
... you can go fuck yourself.


Such language, young man.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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you guys are gonna wake up jay if you dont watch it
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
I happen to enjoy what "kool aid" he gives us, and if you don't, then fine, I have no problem with that and nothing against you.



Mmm...Kool Aid. Just like what they serve at mass suicides! Jamestown style!


You know he was thinking it.
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6198/ripvtide0ym.jpg
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I wanted to reply, but I can't remember what the original topic of this thread was. Give me a minute.

Oh yeah, George Lucas with the Star Wars and the Vader and stuff. Yeah, that was so 1983.
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Off-topic - CO, can we play spot-what's-wrong with your signature?

I always think today is January 30, 1997. On that day Han shot first, nobody ever heard of Hayden Christenson, and Star Wars, was still Star Wars, not A New Hope, and there was one trilogy that consisted of three episodes


1997? On that day, Greedo went cross-eyed, Jabba became a plastic turd and Star Wars was sure as heck not still Star Wars! Joking, of course, but really...
"The things that stick in my mind and make me laugh were, like, memos worried about whether or not the Wookie should have pants. They're looking at this thing and saying, "Couldn't he have some lederhosen?" This is great. Of all the things to worry about, the Wookie has no pants." -Mark Hamill
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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
... you can go fuck yourself.


Such language, young man.


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Of course we'll never be satisfied, olzen! What's wrong with that? I love the original movies, but I can still point out flaws in them and things that annoy me. I generally gloss over them because my enjoyment of them allows me to do so. But that's what separates the casual fan from the uber fan. We can complain and nitpick things, and it doesn't make us any less fans. It just means we know everything so well that we can pick up on details.

To add in my two cents, I always thought that the Luke/Leia sibling thing was a really easy copout explanation to quickly resolve the love triangle. "Hmm. Well, it seems that in the last movie, Han and Leia really started to develop feelings for each other... Hmm, how am I going to get Luke out of the picture? Maybe I should have Luke and Leia spend some time together and talk through their feelings, and make Leia very confused and finally come to a painful decision about who to love. Nah, screw that! I need Luke to be on the Death Star away from his friends, so let's just say they're brother and sister! Kills that crush. Luke can go on with his quest to kill/redeem his father, and Leia just won't care."

But I just thought of something. The main justification for the Luke/Leia siblingship is that it's what finally causes Luke to go over the edge in his duel. Well, wouldn't it have made him go over the edge if he loved her in a romantic way? So let's explore that scenario. Luke is pissed because Vader threated his woman. But we learn from more scenes in Return of the Jedi on Endor that Leia's feelings for Han have definitely solidified. So while Luke is fighting to save the woman he loves, we as the audience know that he doesn't have her. Makes it very poignant.

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I'm not unsatisfied with the O-OT movies, I'm just unsatisfied with George Lucas' lack of honesty - he could very well afford it. On top of it come the questionable business practices of the companies he once founded to create a positive alternative to the Hollywood machinery - I think from a todays point-of-view one can only say that the effort backfired in every possible way.
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And don't forget, those of you who think the nitpicking on the PT is ridiculous, that many years after the OT was over with yet before the PT came about many of us fond reasons to nitpick the OT (usually directed at ROTJ though). We love the films but we're allowed to watch, re-watch and dissect them over and over in our heads. That's part of the fun of being a geek. And please- anyone who claims they aren't a geek but have registered at this or any other 'fan' site are only deluding yourselves.

Film Threat a few years back (when it was still a on-paper magazine) published a cover story with the headline '50 Reason Why Return of the Jedi Sucks'. You can read the long article here: 50 Reason Why Return Of The Jedi Sucks

Some highlights:

5. [ Painful Lack of Innovation ]
When it comes to scavenging, Lucas could teach even the Jawas a thing or two. Jedi borrows from Wars on levels ranging from conceptual to minute. There's another opening scene with a Star Destroyer (though this time it isn't even permitted to finish its awesome crawl across the top of the screen). There's another Imperial stronghold to infiltrate, and another energy beam to turn off. And of course, there's another Death Star to blow up for the film's climax (though at least the Emperor had enough brains to plug up that pesky exhaust port).

Most of the creatures and droids seen on Tatooine in Wars make background appearances in Jabba's court-even Greedo's alive and well! (Okay, maybe it's a different Rodian. They all look the same to us.) Finally, little thought seems to have been given to developing or maturing any of the main characters in a realistic manner. Han and Threepio suffer most, coming across as catchphrase-spouting caricatures of their previous selves.

6. [ Witty banter ]
Note to writer Lawrence Kasdan: If you must fill your script with witty banter, at least try and make it, well, witty. With one or two exceptions, the humor in Wars and Empire was subtle, based around throwaway lines and the personality quirks of well-written characters. Jedi's overly contrived "humor" too often seems inspired by the setup-to-punchline wordplay found in a typical episode of Three's Company.

In what is probably the film's single most painful moment, Solo requests Threepio do a number of chores. After continually tapping him on the shoulder and preventing him from leaving to complete his duties, Solo quips, "Hurry up, will ya? I haven't got all day." Har-dee-har-har. Based on witticisms like that, it's amazing that Luke never rebuked the Emperor by stating, "Up your nose with a rubber hose."

16. [ Unforgivable Dialogue ]
Threepio approaching Jabba's palace: "I have a bad feeling about this."

Han Solo, when confronted by Ewoks: "I have a bad feeling about this."

Leia, after releasing Solo from carbon freeze: "I gotta get you outta here."

Leia, after being freed from Jabba's chains: "We gotta get outta here."

Leia, after she and an Ewok are ambushed on Endor: "Let's get outta here."

With dialogue like this, it seems Lucas finally put that "million monkeys at a million typewriters" theory to the test.

17. [ Horrible Exposition ]
"Artoo, look! It's Captain Solo-and he's still frozen in carbonite!" Lines like this are for those people who somehow missed the first two movies. Threepio is the main offender throughout, even going so far as to offer a long, Ewokese summary of the Trilogy's plot thus far (with sound effects, no less). Of course, Lucas would probably say that scene was to show "the entrancing magic of storytelling." Call us cynical, but entrancing magic makes us want to puke.

21. [ Terrible, Terrible Post-Production Looping ]
In about half of Jedi's scenes, little attempt is made to match the dialogue with the characters' lip movements-it's almost like watching a Mothra flick. If Lucas were smart, he'd blame this on the film's being dubbed from its original language. You know-the one they spoke a long time ago in that galaxy far, far away.


Etc, etc, etc...


Most of the points are valid. But if any media source would have had the sheer audacity to bring up such points in the early 80s we all probably would have been defending the films as much as AWK is with the prequels. These things come in cycles. But whenever any of us gets too involved in this banter we should stop, take a break, walk around outside a bit and breathe deep the air of real life.... and then come back in, log on and work on those fan edits.
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Film Threat a few years back (when it was still a on-paper magazine) published a cover story with the headline '50 Reason Why Return of the Jedi Sucks'. You can read the long article here: 50 Reason Why Return Of The Jedi Sucks

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Thats a really good read, and I kinda agree with about 42 of them! I think that is a testament to Star Wars & ESB, that they were so good, many of us overlook the flaws of ROTJ, and still love it. I still love ROTJ, but that article is dead on, and even though the characters, with the exception of Luke, gave average performances, they are still lovable characters that make the movie enjoyable to watch 22 years later. I look at it as closure to my childhood being 11 years old when I saw ROTJ in the theater.

Now I correlate ROTS, the same way with ROTJ. It was the only prequel I liked, or I guess enjoyed, and the only one that felt like the OT. But as the first two movies in the OT helped ROTJ, the first two in the PT actually hurt ROTS. By 2005, many fans had had enough, and were burned twice, and ROTS had to be perfect by then, and Lucas has demonstrated the perfect movie hasn't existed since 1980. Plus I feel ROTS is so much better than TPM & AOTC, you start to wonder if the first two were even worth it, and should the PT been ROTS story for 3 movies? Overall, because of the failure of the first two movies, and even though I like ROTS, although the turn scene is dreadful, the trilogy overall doesn't work for me, and I have wiped it from my memory faster than C-3PO had his wiped. But if Lucas had made 3 PT movies with ROTS quality for me, I would probably feel alot different.
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What are your preconceptions of the live-action TV series, CO?
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
What are your preconceptions of the live-action TV series, CO?


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In all honesty, anything outside the movies never excited me, though one of my best friends, who is an OT generation fan, eats up everything outside of the movies.

For me, I can't get into the books, and even the Clone Wars cartoons I watched once, but wasn't interested. For the TV show, even if it is good, I probably won't watch it. As much of a SW fan I am, the movies are the only thing that interest me.
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Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
What are your preconceptions of the live-action TV series, CO?


For me, I can't get into the books


Believe me, there are some that actually feel like a SW movie. You might try some of the first few books from the early 90's. Those were the well-thought out books, but after those, they started to publish books like crazy, and the quality of stories diminished. So I don't blame ya about not finding the modern books interesting.
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i loved the books when they started coming out that was when star wars really felt dead and anything new having to do with star wars was a must. i read all those books up till ep1 and i still managed to read the darth maul book which i thought superior to ep1, and the first of the new jedi order series, after that it started to feel like star trek, too much a damn franchise. even though i'm sure those books were better written than the any of the prequels.
btw yes jedi was easily the least of the oot but it still felt like star wars and didnt overwhelm the other films like the prequels have