logo Sign In

McCallum on Jar Jar & Kids before TPM came out — Page 2

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
In all truth, I don't find Jar-Jar half as annoying as I do Jake Lloyd.


Too true. Jar-Jar was annoying, but harmless, and is kind of cute in his own sort of wierd way....well, not really. But Jake Lloyd...Lucas really fucked that one up. Did ANYONE buy that that kid would one day be Darth Vader? I know I didn't. In the words of Comic Book Guy, Worst. Acting. Ever. I tried watching TPM a few months ago, and enjoyed the first few scenes with Liam Neeson and McGregor duking it out with robots, but then Jar Jar....well, it was ok....then a whole city of them....it was still tolerable...then Naboo and the horrible acting of Natalie Portman and Keira Knightly....I started to move my hand towards the DVD remote....then a few scenes later, Jake lloyd. Movie off. Done. Sorry but no. The problem with Lloyd is that he can't act worth crap, but that isn't the main problem. I can tolerate bad acting. But not only did he have no acting abilities, he THOUGHT he did. Watching someone who can't act think they're the bomb is just awful.


We are talking about a 9/10 year old kid here not Brad Shit or J-Lo
Author
Time
Post link
Jake was worried everyone was going to laugh at him, and they had to reassure him that SW fans weren't -that- mean spirited.

Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
I don't understand the dislike for Jake Lloyd. Sure, he wasn't the best choice for Anakin, but he isn't anywere in the same leauge of lousiness as Jar Jar is.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Jake was worried everyone was going to laugh at him, and they had to reassure him that SW fans weren't -that- mean spirited.

Well, then they lied to him twice. Once when they told him that, and the other time when they told him he could act.




I don't care if he's a tike, that's no excuse for piss-poor casting. There have been plenty of wonderful kid performances in films. Yes, tons of bad ones. It's hard to cast child parts. But no one gets a pass for doing it poorly simply because it's difficult.


.

Author
Time
Post link
I don't expect miracles, and think Jake did a decent if not perfect job.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Number20
I don't understand the dislike for Jake Lloyd. Sure, he wasn't the best choice for Anakin, but he isn't anywere in the same leauge of lousiness as Jar Jar is.



I agree, I dont understand the dislike for Jake Lloyd also, sure he wasnt the greatest child actor ever, but I find Jake Lloyd completly watchable when he is onscreen and can live with the performance he gave in the film, though I do find it a bit creepy when hes chatting up Natalie Portman in them scenes but Jar Jar there have been times in the past when I found him unwatchable in TPM especially in the Battle of Naboo
Author
Time
Post link
no, Hayden was far,far,far worse than Jake. But I don't know if it was a godd idea to make Anakin 9 years old.
Author
Time
Post link
Actually, the only part that worked for me about Hayden was that he was as poor an actor as Jake, thus creating an illusion that they might somehow be the same person.


Could any other two people have such poor acting skills? The similarities are amazing!!
Author
Time
Post link
I always used to say if Jake and Hayden had acted any better, I would have never believed their character fathered Mark Hammil's character.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I always used to say if Jake and Hayden had acted any better, I would have never believed their character fathered Mark Hammil's character.


This guy probably works for the Academy Awards.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
Author
Time
Post link
It is interesting that McCallum's tone here is somewhat defiant. This is the first time I've ever heard McCallum sound remotely like he's questioning Lucas.

As for Jake Lloyd, he wasn't great but in his defense:

1) A lot of good actors suffered with GL's dialog and direction
2) Lloyd didn't cast himself
3) You try reacting to a blue screen

If this discussion is Lloyd vs. Jar Jar, give me Lloyd every day.

Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
It is interesting that McCallum's tone here is somewhat defiant. This is the first time I've ever heard McCallum sound remotely like he's questioning Lucas.

As for Jake Lloyd, he wasn't great but in his defense:

1) A lot of good actors suffered with GL's dialog and direction
2) Lloyd didn't cast himself
3) You try reacting to a blue screen

If this discussion is Lloyd vs. Jar Jar, give me Lloyd every day.


I'll give you 2 and 3, and number one to an extent. George is a bad director, but all the actors in the films put at least something into thier roles, which made them a little more than unbearable. Lloyd just was awful with no redeeming qualities, and I think George was probably trying to direct him in at least some small way, which Lloyd was not taking to heart. Where the blame falls on Lucas is accepting that preformance. I make no-budget movies, with my friends as actors, and I squeeze the best preformance I can get out of them. Any good director does not take preformences like Lloyd's and keep them in the film.

So basically, I agree with all your points, but something was just "off" with Lloyd, and I think it went furthur then Lucas. The shreds of decency in the preformences of the actors came within themselves, not within Lucas. Lloyd, obviously, had no acting ability inside himself.


WHAT GO-MER-TONIC WILL RESPOND WITH:
watch, I can do it word for word.

I think Lucas is the best director of the last century. The preformences of the actors in the prequels was excellent; Hayden's preformence in ROTS made me weep with emotion. Jake Lloyd has a screen presence rarely seen in an actor, and I'll be dammed if we ever see a preformence like it again from a child star. The prequels were full of emotion and incredibly acting, and the source of it all was George Lucas. And as for Lloyd versus Jar-Jar, I'll take them both. They're both great. I've never seen such incredible casting on a set of films. Lucas is my hero and I bet we'll never see another filmmaker like him.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
Author
Time
Post link
Can we please stop with the Go-Mer bashing? He's not any more of a dick for defending the prequels than most of you are for bashing them.
Author
Time
Post link
Save your pity for those who deserve it.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
Author
Time
Post link
As for the notion that "OMG McCallum defied Lucas!"--well, this is actually just another pro-Lucas article. Because the summary of the article is not "I doubted George and he really fucked us over"--its "I doubted George but in the end he was right. Shame on me." McCallum can doubt Lucas but only if Lucas ends up being right in the end. Ironic that in this case McCallum was right on the money; this articel was written in April, where people were simply annoyed at Jar Jar, rather than before the June-era Jar Jar hate period.
Author
Time
Post link
I have just seen a lot of people (not here really) accuse McCallum of being a mindless yes man. Or say that there is nobody there to question Lucas' artistic choices like Kurtz did.

I have also seen people assume Lucas thought everyone would love Jar-Jar, but is crazy and out of touch with what audiences want.

Lucas knew exactly what he was doing, and in the end the people who didn't agree with him didn't matter.

Just like the people who didn't agree that the original Star Wars would make any money didn't matter.

I think at some point we need to examine the possibility that Lucas might actually know a little more about what makes a successful movie than we do.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I have just seen a lot of people (not here really) accuse McCallum of being a mindless yes man.

I wouldn't say that he's totally a "yes man," because I'm sure he brings his expertise to the table and offers Lucas suggestions when he thinks things can be improved. But Lucas today is a much different person than the Lucas of 1972 who first hired Gary Kurtz--that was more of a partnership, and because the two knew each other so early in life and experienced the rags-to-riches thing together, Kurtz didn't see Lucas as anything special, in fact he probably knew his faults better than anyone else and really helped Lucas where he saw him weak. McCallum however was hired under a totally different context--he was brought on when Lucas was already a legendary billionaire "genius," and his purpose literally is to make what Lucas wants to happen happen. So I suppose he's a yes man in the sense that his ultimate purpose is not to bring anything creative to the table but to simplyu carry out the tasks Lucas commands. And thats what many people feel one of the biggest problems with Lucas today is--the whole absolute power that corrupts absolutely thing. Because he's simply too powerful, he can just dispense orders. Luckily the art department at least gets pretty free reign to have their own creative input. But as far as McCallum goes, he's not there to question Lucas or give his opinions in to what will make a shot or a scene better--he's there to manage and carry out Lucas' orders. And publicly, he is the primary Lucasfilm spokesperson. These two things together contribute to the "Yes man" image he has, which i don't think is 100% accurate but certainly its not at all out in left field.

Or say that there is nobody there to question Lucas' artistic choises like Kurtz did.

There isn't. Lucas is so powerful, famous, rich and respected that nobody he works with questions him, beyond the little details at least. Can you imagine any of his producers reading Phantom Menace and going "George, i have to tell you, this script needs a lot of character work"?

I have also seen people assume Lucas thought everyone would love Jar-Jar, but is crazy and out of touch with what audiences want.


He did think as much, and i don't know if that makes him crazy because i think he knew that adults would be a bit annoyed but certainly he didnt purposely design a character that audiences would hate so much. I will say, however, that he is very in touch with what children want, i guess because at the time he wrote and made TPM his kids were all 2-9 years old. That, however, can be seen as the primary fault of the film--its mostly a kids film, as opposed to a family film, as others pointed out, although this doesn't hold true for the entire movie.

Lucas knew exactly what he was doing, and in the end the people who didn't agree with him didn't matter.


See, i don't know where you come up with this conclusion. The press crucified the film. The critics hated the film. The public was annoyed by the film. Fans hated the film. So then who the hell is left that matters?? Lucas-worshippers? 5 year olds? If Lucas made a film for five year olds then i guess he is a success--but Star Wars was not a childrens film. It was a film that was made to be enjoyed by children, but equally by adults. If he was making strictly a childrens film then why the hell would he put all that intellectual stuff about politics, about midichlorians, about prophecy, about governmental issues? The answer is that he was not making a childrens film. He was trying to make a film for kids and adults alike, a family film, like the original Star Wars--and while TPM is not a bad movie at all, i would say that if those were his intentions then he didn't know what he was doing and thats why he failed.

Just like the people who didn't agree that the original Star Wars would make any money were wrong.


Most people agreed it would be quite profitable. In fact, Lucas' rejection memo from United Artists in 1973 even states that the film would be successful if done right, but they just couldn't afford to chance all the money on it because it was such a big budget film. People just didn't expect Star Wars to be such a huge mega-success, which is a pretty reasonable excuse.
Author
Time
Post link
Everyone was telling Lucas he was crazy while he was making ANH. The cast thought it was a crazy idea, the crew thought it was crazy. Even if some of the studios told him it could make money they still told him "no" which obviously means they didn't expect it to make enough money to do it.

Right here we have proof that McCallum was saying he didn't think Jar-Jar would work and he questioned Lucas about his use of the goofy Gungan, but George explained to him that his point was to be annoying to adults.

Rob Coleman did an interview where he said he "begged" Lucas to allow him to tone down the Gugnan's antics, but Lucas refused.

It's not that nobody questions him, it's just in the end, Lucas gets what Lucas wants. Which with the exception of portions of ANH has always been the case.

I don't mean to take anything away from Kurtz's obvious contribution to these films, but he was against Lucas making Vader Luke’s' father. I know some here would agree with him, but does anyone refute that most people loved the "I am your father" moment?

So this idea that Lucas should listen to everyone else when they are telling him his ideas are crazy is crazy in and of itself. For better or worse Lucas is the artist and therefore he gets to make the final decision. He can't just let everyone around him tell him how the movie should turn out, he has to keep a consistent vision for it, otherwise, you have too many chefs spoiling the stew.

Lucas has been enjoying absolute power since ESB. That didn't stop him from deciding Kershner and Harrison were right about the "I know" line. That didn't stop him from deciding the original cut of Empire worked better than the cut he tried to make. In the end Lucas does listen to others, but only when he agrees with them.

Yes, he did purposely design a character that less tolerant people would hate with a passion. It's an exercise in tolerance for the audience, and kids that learn how to tolerate Jar-Jar will in all likelihood be cooler to their fellow man as they get older because they won't be so quick to hate things they don't understand or find annoying right away. A lot of them will have learned Lucas' lesson about compassion. Just as a lot of us learned not to be so quick to anger from the originals.

The reason I say the people who didn't agree with him didn't matter is because despite critics and -some- fans crucifying Lucas and TPM over Jar-Jar, it went on to claim 2nd highest worldwide box office gross (at the time). So even with that ridiculous amount of hate, no matter how hard the critics tried to kill TPM at the box office (remember the ones that broke their word to wait until opening day to publish their reviews?), they couldn't do it. TPM not only survived, but it was the 2nd highest success at the box office up until that point.

I know a lot of you think Lucas isn't the same guy he used to be, but I say he's still a whole lot closer than any of us are.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

The reason I say the people who didn't agree with him didn't matter is because despite critics and -some- fans crucifying Lucas and TPM over Jar-Jar, it went on to claim 2nd highest worldwide box office gross (at the time). So even with that ridiculous amount of hate, no matter how hard the critics tried to kill TPM at the box office (remember the ones that broke their word to wait until opening day to publish their reviews?), they couldn't do it. TPM not only survived, but it was the 2nd highest success at the box office up until that point.


And why was it so succesful? Oh yeah, three wildly succesive films came out twenty years earlier and Star Wars was firmly in the public's mind as an excellent film, and people wanted to see more. That's why people saw it. You act like TPM fought a great battle or something. It was a sequel, and if the original(s) are good, people will flock to the sequel, no matter what the review. People who thought it would be bad would go see it out of curiosity. You know, that mentality of "How could Lucas make a bad film?" People wanted to see how he could, and they did. The film was not succesful because people liked it.

The original films were good because Lucas had some creative criticism, no matter how much he denies it in interviews. Gary Kurtz, his directors, his screenwriters, his cinamatographers, his actors, etc. He actually had a crew. The prequels were all Lucas, some blue screens, crappy actors and some computers. If people on the set really disliked Jar-Jar, they would have gotten thier point across. If the crew in the eighties had disliked Jar-Jar, jar-jar probably wouldn't be in the film. That's the way it would have been. Good films are the result of good collaborations, which is exactly what the originals were. I know you want to believe the Lucas does everything himself Go-Mer, but a bad filmmaker is the one that does everything themself. A good filmmaker takes imput from everyone, and then really considers it and takes it to heart. Full credit was given to Peter Jackson on The LOTR trilogy, and while he should get lots of credit, it was a huge, massive collaboration that made three excellent films. Everyone involved had input. Even actors had suggestions that changed scenes for the better. All the filmmakers involved on that project ackknowledge what a great collaboration it was, which is great. Lucas could never admit that, because he feels so vastly insecure about himself that he needs to make sure everyone thinks the films are his own and no one elses, but that just makes him look like a bad filmmaker.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
Author
Time
Post link
I wonder why that same dynamic didn't help Blues Brothers 2000 at the box office.

Sure I will grant you opening week, even opening month those people went to see TPM on the merit of the classic trilogy.

But when it's still in dollar theaters when they re-release it for the Christmas holiday, you have to start to suspect that people were going back again and again because they actually liked -that- movie too.

It is patently ridiculous to state that Lucas did not have a crew of people working with him on the prequels. I don't even understand how you could say it. Sure it's not the same crew he had since the beginning, but there -was- a crew. It wasn't just "Lucas, some blue screens, crappy actors and some computers."

People -DID- get their point across to Lucas that they didn't like the way Jar-Jar was being done. Lucas simply didn't agree with them. Just as he didn't agree with Kurtz when he thought they shouldn't make Vader Luke's father.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Gomer, the list of all-time moneymakers is littered with movies nobody gives a shit about any more. ( Remember Home Alone? It made about a zillion dollars more than Goodfellas the same year.)
Author
Time
Post link
I guess if there comes a time when people stop giving a shit about Star Wars I'll have to eat my words.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I wonder why that same dynamic didn't help Blues Brothers 2000 at the box office.

Sure I will grant you opening week, even opening month those people went to see TPM on the merit of the classic trilogy.

But when it's still in dollar theaters when they re-release it for the Christmas holiday, you have to start to suspect that people were going back again and again because they actually liked -that- movie too.

It is patently ridiculous to state that Lucas did not have a crew of people working with him on the prequels. I don't even understand how you could say it. Sure it's not the same crew he had since the beginning, but there -was- a crew. It wasn't just "Lucas, some blue screens, crappy actors and some computers."

People -DID- get their point across to Lucas that they didn't like the way Jar-Jar was being done. Lucas simply didn't agree with them. Just as he didn't agree with Kurtz when he thought they shouldn't make Vader Luke's father.


Gomer, Lucas had so many fans for 3 PT movies cause he marketed as 'how Vader turns to the darkside' and that was a brilliant marketing ploy.

I know SO many friends who thought TPM & AOTC were pure shit, but said to me in May 2005, "I have to atleast see how Darth Vader turns." So they went to it, cause we were all such diehards fans we had to see how the story ended atleast one time. I don't know any other movie series where people would hang around to see the whole thing, does Matrix Revolutions ring a bell?

But in saying that there is a reason that TPM made the most of all PT movies, cause alot of those fans checked out in 1999:

TPM: 431 million
AOTC: 310 million
ROTS: 380 million

Hey, I was one of those fans who saw each PT movie twice, and now I don't ever think about them anymore, but because I was such a diehard OT fan I WANTED so bad to love them, I went back hoping I was wrong after my initial showing, I bought them on DVD HOPING they would match up 1-6, and now after trying and trying, I came to the realization, it wasn't me, the movies aren't that great and don't tie up with the OT that well, IMO.

You can throw out all the numbers you want, but every Friend I know saw all 3 PT movies, and EVERYONE of them thinks less of them now then they did from 99-05. In a sense, it was cool to go through the hype of SW again, but that is all it was for alot of fans, Hype.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I wonder why that same dynamic didn't help Blues Brothers 2000 at the box office.

Sure I will grant you opening week, even opening month those people went to see TPM on the merit of the classic trilogy.

But when it's still in dollar theaters when they re-release it for the Christmas holiday, you have to start to suspect that people were going back again and again because they actually liked -that- movie too.

It is patently ridiculous to state that Lucas did not have a crew of people working with him on the prequels. I don't even understand how you could say it. Sure it's not the same crew he had since the beginning, but there -was- a crew. It wasn't just "Lucas, some blue screens, crappy actors and some computers."

People -DID- get their point across to Lucas that they didn't like the way Jar-Jar was being done. Lucas simply didn't agree with them. Just as he didn't agree with Kurtz when he thought they shouldn't make Vader Luke's father.



Just fuck off you little prick. You're never ever going to listen to reason, and just glorify Lucas and and his films ot no end, even when reason punches you in the face. You cannot see anything bad about Lucas at all, and it makes you the most annoying little troll I've ever met. Yes, people went to phantom menace, lots of people. Why? Everyone loved the originals. Almost everyone who had seen the films in the twenty year gap loved them, and those who didn't would still go see a new one just to go with the hype. Millions and millions of people saw the original, and most of those millions would go to see the new one. Casual fans would wait until after the first month, and people who has only seen one of the original films or just thought the advertising was good would go later. That itself explains why it was in theaters so long.

And CO had a good point too. Fans wanted to believe it was a good movie, and went over and over again, but in the end, they were just deluding themselves. Go-Mer, I know that you always block this out, but this is TRUE. PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE THE PREQUELS. THE GENERAL PUBLIC DISLIKES THE PREQUELS. PEOPLE WENT OUT OF CURIOSITY AND A DESIRE TO SEE THE SERIES COMPLETED, NO MATTER HOW BAD IT WAS. It's like reading a bad book. It sucks hard, but you want to find out how it ends. So you read to the end. ALL THE FILMS HAD GOING FOR THEM WAS CRAPPY CGI AND LIAM NEESON, WHO IS THE ONLY ONE IN THE PREQUELS WHO GAVE A GOOD PREFORMENCE. Hell, casting Neeson in TPM probably got lots of new people to come. PEOPLE DID NOT GO BECAUSE IT WAS A GOOD MOVIE. PERIOD. END OF STORY. FUCK OFF GOMER.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
Author
Time
Post link
Now I'm sorry Evil, but I have to disagree.

Ewan really somehow pulled off his character even under George's non-direction. It makes me even more sorry that he was stuck with such a stupid story... I don't know what that guy ate for breakfast or how much he was getting paid but he rose above the shit he was in and delivered on a level I personally didn't get from anyone else in any of those movies, real emotion, real heart, real intensity. Of course the gusher squad will tell you that everyone acted so stiff and dull like keanu Reeves in the PT because that's just how people back then acted, but all one needs to do is watch Ewan perform to know that that's not true and is just another in a long list of excuses they use to cover up Lucas' bad direction. Ewan deserved some kind of award.

Ian, I think was the only other OT actor besides JEJ and Daniels to return and he was ok except for when he went nuts and became a goofy clown unlimited powaaah . Still he maintained some of the integrity of his OT performance so he's commendable for that...

But JEJ, what the hell happened man? Please tell me that JEJ didn't really come back and that was just some guy trying to impersonate him...

The rest, especially Ahmed Best should be ashamed of themselves.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/