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Info: Matrix Universe - Question to the Crowd...

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 (Edited)

Again I’m not making promises or releasing details yet, but this is a first step (actually it’s like the 100th step so far), but I’m still nowhere near ready to go public. Or is this public

Dr. M

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Hmm, does the poll thing not work on this forum or have 32 people been through here with no one voting?

Dr. M

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You should have an option there "Depends on how it's handled in your edit."
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Yeah, that's true.
I'm afraid that although I'm improving the story and tying up lose ends, that's the last sticking point.
If you don't believe that they can fix him up, it all falls apart.
It's that or I need someone who can do some Sfx and add either cuts on his face or a blindfold.

I mean I will show him under medical care, but he'll be completely healed when I do.
I think I'm willing to suspend disbelief only because I've been thinking this out for about a year and I just finished the 8th draft of the script today. I want to do this, and I am really in love with what I have.

Dr. M

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Yeah, I think it'll work. But there are certainly people who could CGI something over Reeves' eyes. That's not a ridiculously hard job especially if the scenes are not long.

Is this gonna be one movie? Because the Matrix sequels do not have enough good material in them for more than one movie I think .... preferably including material from the superior Animatrix also.
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Ok, heres my theory on the whole Neo survived thing:
Neo may have survived, if he did the matrix has been rebooted so there will be the seventh Neo (as the Arcitect says this is the sixth version of the matrix.) So Neo (Tom Andersion, Reeves version) is reinsterted as a a Smith style agent to battle the new 'One.' I got this idea awhile back, I back it up with the fact that the comics say that the Maruvinjian (French guy, not good at spelling) is a previous 'The One' He has been reinserted as this character, why cant Neo be instered as my version?

Anyway, Zion wouldnt have the tech, Bane cut himself to bits and they didnt do anything about it. The Machines on the other hand may have been able to rebuild him.
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Eli, it's the NEED to be thinking like that that is making me redo the Matrix films.
We're being forced to fill in a huge amount of plot holes ourselves, and to explain away a really terrible ending.
I love the original Matrix too much to be left with such a bad taste in my mouth from the sequels.

OCP: The material there is better than you think, it just suffers from writers/directors who had too many irons in the fire and forgot what a good movie is.
See: Matrix 1 & Bound (and possibly the up coming V for Vendetta).

Like I said, I'm not really pushing details out right now (mostly because things are still pretty fluid), but it will be 2 films. The Dezionized version could have been 2 since it clocked in over 3 hours (though word is they'll be cutting more).
Either today or tomorrow I will start some serious editing to see whats what. I have the broad strokes now, but I lack some details that I'll work out as I go.

This won't be done anytime soon, but by the time the weekend is over I should know enough to give further info or to scrap the idea entirely. It's VERY ambitious since I've never done a fanedit before. Some of this will hinge on being able to make my changes convincing.

Lastly, If anyone really does have the ability to do some bandaged eye cg, please PM me. I'm talking maybe 1 or 2 shots is all that's needed.

I had forgotten about Bane's cuts. Hmmm. I dunno, in Matrix 1 they had fancy electric acupuncture and surgery on a ship no less (did any of them look like a doctor there?) It led me to believe that they're fairly advanced. Maybe they figured Bane was an ass or would only cut himself again.

OH and I originally was going to work in one animatrix clip (the CGI one that's so awesome), but it may not fall in with my cut. (And it's CG for crying out loud). I considered trying to get the footage from Enter The Matrix since they filmed it at the same time (and its suppose to be pretty good), but I can't see adding much more to the films, and I don't think it's up to DVD quality.

Dr. M

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I was thinking more like the animated one about the robots taking over ... that as a kind of prologue. But hey.
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THE ORACLE SAID THAT SHE BELIEVES THAT THEY WILL SEE NEO AGAIN.


THE WAY I WOULD DO THIS IS GO FROM THAT SCENE TO THE SCENE IN THE ORIGINAL WHERE NEO IS ASLEEP AT THE COMPUTER. THEN THE WORDS "WAKE UP NEO" SHOW UP ON HIS TERMINAL, AND NEO RAISES HIS HEAD. FROM THERE I WOULD CUT STRAIGHT TO THE CREDITS.


DID NEO COME BACK AS THE ORACLE SAID HE WOULD, OR WAS IT ALL A DREAM ??? I THINK THIS FITS THE WHOLE PHILOSOPHY THAT THE BROTHERS WERE TRYING TO INSTILL IN THIS FILM.

"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide

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Tp pull off my version I'd (with all the right stuff to do it) Add in a line for Frenchy like : 'I survived your predicesor, I WAS your predicesor!' so we know other versions of the one are reinserted. Then when the matrix reboots do a kinda Hitchhikers guide thing where everything grows and comes back super fast, then we see some matrixy type perosn (leather trench coat etc running from an agent, we pan up to see the agent is 'Agent Anderson' End.
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Hmm. Ok, let me warn those that might be interested in my edits:
If you liked M2&3 even a little, you will HATE what I am doing to it. They will be completely different films. That's because I was on the verge of performing a labotomy on myself to remove all memory of M3 after seeing it.

I will be changing the stories, the meanings and the subtext (mostly in the final film, but the second needs changing to fall in line). So although the suggestions mentioned would be good if you were making minor changes, but they have no fit in the edits I'm making.

I spent the better part of today playing with Womble Mpeg Wizard DVD which adds 5.1 audio editing ability.

Yes that's a like 4 hours on less than 2 minutes of film. If this isn't the hardest part of my edit, I don't even want to think what is.
The point is I will be filling a lot of plot holes with spackle. (IN other words it's not pretty, but they will be filled.)

The clip attached has been converted to Xvid (2-pass) with the final ac3 audio track.
The only down side to it is that when Womble recoded a bit of the video (that I had previously recoded) there was some degradation (only in a few parts). I won't describe further, because you'll be happier not knowing that they are there if you don't see them.

What this is is the first of my plot hole fixes: the reinstitution of Gloria Foster as the Oracle.
Some cropping and recycled clips from Matrix 1 were used.
The question once again becomes: does this work well enough to use?

You will note a change in tone for this scene. The Oracle is almost playfully defiant now rather than resigned to her fate. It seems more in character if you ask me.

Don't worry about hurting my feelings, I just want to know if I'm dreaming or if this is all really looking promising.
(And before anyone says anything the first 6 seconds are black on purpose. It gives me a bit of audio tail to crossmix later when integrating it in the film.)

Cheers: (25.3mb) http://rapidshare.de/files/15206108/oracleclip.avi.html

Dr. M

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Ewok: I wasn't aware anyone actually played EtM with the reviews as bad as they were.
Can you tell me if the video cut scenes are near DVD quality and worth trying to edit in? The game is like $5 now and I would definitely grab it just for the footage at that price if they were good enough.

Btw, don't all yell at once about the clip. Yikes.
Q: What's the sound of one hand clapping?
A: A bad fan edit clip...

Dr. M

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"Dunno, just show me the results."

LOL....not that I voted yet.

I started having issues with Reloaded when Neo apparently had powers outside the Matrix - i.e. stopping the Sentinels. If this was the case, what was the point with having the Matrix, itself? Having superpowers inside was easily explained, but now he was a mortal who was actually a God - big difference there. How on Earth was the Matrix able to create a God? This made no sense, and was completely unnecessary on top of that.

So to answer your question: I don't know, but I doubt it.

I am reminded of the main character in Dark City who developed the same powers as the aliens, but that's a very different scenario.

Anyways, the other issue I had was everyone asking each other questions, to which they apparently already had the answers, and yet nothing was ever made clear. This kind of internal, hidden logic really showed how little depth the films had in and of themselves, despite the use of archetypes.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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MebeJedi: Actually after M2 I was struck with the same issue of the Sentinal zap. But, between that and the Architect's (painfully rambling speech) I was given the impression that M3 would reveal that Zion and the "Real World" (TRW) were another form of control (or more accurately the opposite side of the equation). That is, the TRW/Zion were ANOTHER Matrix, dirtier and less pleasant. If people rejected earlier Matrices because they were a paradise and you have a new Matrix MOST people find flawed enough to believe, you need to let the malcontents who see through it to think they've escaped by putting them in a tougher less pleasant place. Basically a prison in a prison. TRW would have a different set of rules than the main Matrix. Therefore The One would really be the person who discovered the second prison, found a way to bend IT'S rules and really free humanity from the machines. (There had to be a first who first freed themselves from the original Matrix why not a first who freed themselves from the Zion-Matrix.)

Re-listen to the Architect's speech at the end of M2. You can almost see what I just said.

If you ask me it would have been a much cooler turn out. Unfortunately, as much as I'm going to bend these movies to my will, there's just no way to make that story happen.
I'll just have to become a rich and powerful Hollywood producer/director and re-make the last film.

Edit: Ok, I think you talked me into it. I'm going to rework the script MeBeJedi. I had been living with the idea of Neo having TRW powers so long I forgot how much the idea blew when I first saw it. The Squid-zap is an easy cut. I was actually going to construct a new prophetic dream for M3 in which Neo forsees the upcoming battles, Trinity's death and his own blindness (if he can see the future, how did that take him by surprise?) At least that's an afternoon I'll have back.
Large cuts for removing BlindOVision should be easy enough, but the real problem is the real world Smith fight. If he's blind, how will he defeat him? I suppose he still know Kung Fu outside the Matrix. I guess it's easier to believe he's Zatoichi than Muadib.

Dr. M

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Doctor M:
I'm downloading that clip now, will post about it when I see what it is.

Also, the EtM clips were compiled on the 10-Disc set Matrix Collection. You should find somebody with that who is willing to lend it to you or rip the scenes for you as they'd be in better quality than the game.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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Ok if anyone is offering those Enter the Matrix clips, PM me. If not, that's just as fine my script (now re-written with MeBe's great suggestion) is pretty much read to go.

I DO need HELP though!
I'm trying to get the word HACKED! matching the Matrix Reloaded lettering falling just after the words Reloaded appears. It needs to fall from the top of the screen to the bottom. There are 60 line black borders top and bottom. I just can't match the color and get it to look like anything but crap.
I just wasted an hour getting nothing useful. Womble's title editor is useless and crappy. Oh yeah, and I'm color blind which doesn't help.

Dr. M

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I downloaded the clip out of curiosity. It looks well done, but I can't hear a thing.
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ocpmovie said that you might be able to get someone to add some cuts and whathaveyou to Neo's face to accomplish what you are hoping. In that same vein, you could also grab clips from the movie Sweet Nomber with Keanu Reeves and Charlize Theron. There are a few scenes that have him wearing a blind-fold and wlaking around. My idea is that you could rotoscope his head out, or his entire body and plug it into the few scenes where you see that he is in fact alive, albeit blind or healing (either could be suggested by the covering over his eyes).

I realize that this would be difficult and perhaps more work than you want to spend on something, or it maybe too far from the direction you want to go with Neo's survival, but it's just another way you could possibly make it work. Oh, and I am totally supportive of any and all edits of the Matrix trilogy. I would hope that you would leave the original alone mostly since it was great IMO. However the other two, especially Reloaded, really needs an overhaul.

One last thing, as long as we are on the topic of rotoscoping, at the end of the Matrix (the first movie), he looks at the agents down the hallway and sees them in Matrix code. The problem is that they are green and in code unlike other programs in the Matrix. In Reloaded and Revolutions all programs are orange. Even when Neo sees Agent Smith during their fight on the ship seeing him extranaturally(?) he sees him in orange almost as if he were on fire. Seeing as the creators of the Matrix decided to change the look of programs for the sequels, I would like to see the agents at the end of the Matrix as a deep brown almost black silouhette with an orange outline like how the programs are represented in the sequels.

Just some thoughts.
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The reason some of you can't hear the audio is it's ac3 and you'd need ac3filter (on the PC) (or try loading it in your DVD software if it can handle video files).

Hmm. The rotoscope of the blind fold clips sounds good, and it will really only be brief. I actually stand a chance of cropping the scene if I can't find anyone to help. Sloppy but it'll do the job.

The first Matrix will be untouched. I find it to be a nearly perfect movie.
The second will actually have fewer (drastic) changes than the third. I'll attempt to improve the 2nd but the problem is there's little you can do with what is there. The Dezionized people showed me a lot of good ideas, but short of cutting slow parts, I'm not sure it can be made a lot better.

When I'm done you'll probably rate the movies from best to worst as M1, M3, M2 (which in my mind reverses the order of the last 2 films.)

The worst problem is that the second movie lacked any real subtext. The third at least attempted to incorporate religious allusions to the story like the original. The second is just a mindless thrill ride and little else.

As far as Agent code. I think that can be explained away because agents after the first film are version 2.0 (according to credits). Neo even comments on the upgrades. New code could be a new color.

Dr. M

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The new code theory could work I guess. I just remember being so excited for the Matrix sequels, flipping through all the magazine cover with exclusive photos and seeing pictures of a silouhette outlined in orange in middle of all this matrix code and wondering "whoa! I wonder what that is?!? Is that supposed to be what neo looks like in code? Is that the source?" I had all these questions because of this one really cool picture. When I watched the movie I found out that it was just what a program looks like in the matrix and was disappointed. I thought afterwards that it wouldn't have come as much of a shock if the agents at the end of the first movie looked like that too.

Ever since then I have wanted to see that changed. I honestly don't think it would be too much work. All you would have to do is create a few masks in After Effects and match the look in the sequels.

A real challenging Matrix edit would be a "Smith-less" version of the Matrix trilogy. Actually, the first movie would have no changes, I just wished he would have stayed dead. I don't know how you would compensate for all the cuts you would have to make, but it would be interesting if it could be done. I didn't think a Zion-less edit could be done until I saw that edit, so I dare somebody to try and make this idea work.
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Thanks for explaining the audio thing. Will you be using footage of Keanu from other movies?
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Where were you in '77?

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Doctor M:
The clip works well enough. The problem is however, that the footage of the Oracle is not tinted green like the footage of Smith and so you can tell they're not from the same film. I recommend playing around with some filters to get the Oracle shots to match the same sort of tinting that the rest of the sequence has.

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Please encode the audio in a format Quicktime can read. AC3 audio on an AVI is ridiculous.


I was able to play it in VLC. I didn't like it - the footage was obviously dropped in, and amounted to nothing more than a couple of awkward reaction shots.


I like the idea of using footage from Sweet November, though I never saw that film and don't know if it's appropriate.


I hope you cut down Matrix Reloaded most significantly, as that is one of the worst films I've seen.