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Massive 35mm Leaks on Reddit

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Not sure if anyone here follows the Fanedits subreddit but there is a fellow https://www.reddit.com/user/Kaiji_fanedits/ who seems to be uploading tons of scans, not sure if any of these belong to contributors on this thread but I’m curious how folks feel about that? If it even matters.

Just thought I’d share in case the original restorer isn’t into the idea and might get pinched for their work. I appreciate the scans very much and Reddit can be such a garbage place.

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Hence why I posted the link.

I don’t like the idea of hard work going to waste because people don’t want to contribute. I personally enjoy donating towards these scans because a) I enjoy watching them at home, and b) I’m giving business to an individual and not some janky corp.

I’m sorry to hear how disappointing it is, I also agree it’s pretty lame. I just felt someone should know and hopefully it can be addressed. The last thing I want is any of those working on these preservations to get into any trouble if that’s a possible case.

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Also, besides the financial Problem of getting smaller scans funded, I do not like the overall exposure on bigger sites.

With the small project and keeping them in between the people who contributed it might keep flying under the radar of Corps.

But with them shared wideley, I fear that at some point some corps start to get pis*** about the existence of fanrestorations and fanedits.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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I’m not a lawyer or anything but I highly doubt any major studios care that much. If they wanted to shut us down, there’s nothing stopping them. I don’t think a few scans of old scratchy prints are cutting into their bottom line.

There’s no way Disney isn’t aware of 4k77, and AFAIK they’ve done nothing to stop it being released or shared.

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I definitely agree on the Disney front, I’m sure they are aware of those and see it as “free marketing”, the rest I don’t know but again, I appreciate the hard work that goes into these and would hate to them cease

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See No Evil said:

If people who are on the fence about contributing to projects, see scans being uploaded freely, they might think “what’s the point in pitching in when I will be able to see it all for free anyway?”. I know that’s not a majority view though, especially here.

I’m one of the people who is contributing to your physical release sets, and the work put into them makes it worth it for me personally. I only got into this from the handful of scans found on archive.org so for me and probably many others here, if it was not for some free scans out there, I would have never got into it in the first place.

There is always going to be a premium in any hobby to get a fuller experience, and even if every single scan I donate to ends up free on the web at some point, someone needed to put cash in to have it exist in the first place. I don’t feel cheated. I’ll still be donating for awhile.

My only concern is that the more public it gets the more the litigators could be notified.

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Honestly, I do not blame you, or any other creator to follow this route.

People are so obnoxious and feel entitled to movies because ‘the internet’. These small niche projects that I personally donate to is because I appreciate the length of work it takes to do these scans, not to mention how expensive it is. I felt it was important to supply this info because I do not think it’s fair to you or anyone else who is pouring money into these scans (and risking any trouble!). It’s pretty lame how people can spin it and they call it “gatekeeping”, gimme a break. If people were actually interested in these preservation they’d donate so that the creators can pursue more projects. It’s not hard to toss over a few bucks for something this cool.

A lot of these scans are quite impressive and I am so grateful that I can turn my home projector into a mini grindhouse cinema.

Again, I’m sorry this is all happening, and has been for some time.

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I’ve downloaded dozens of 35mm film scans. They’re going up on the Archive or VK and OK soon.

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People justifying leaking scans don’t care about preservation. They don’t care about more of these scans happening and continuing to happen. They only care about the video file that comes from them. I like releasing the things I scan publically if I can, but there are obvious cases where it can’t happen because of multiple factors that SeeNoEvil listed.

That Reddit and the people leaking downloads are just a bunch of losers who want to steal the credit and the effort that people here and on other forums like StarWarsTrilogy put into making things like this a reality for small dopamine hits seeing people click upvotes. If whoever scanned what they leaked got into serious legal trouble they wouldn’t care and continue stealing and uploading

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In reference to See No Evil and Dr. Cooper’s posts…

I’m somewhat familiar with the discussion here regarding the mass posting of 35mm scans on Reddit having been a member of the Fan Edit subreddit for a couple of years now. I’ve also done my own fan edits for the past decade and belong to many other forums such as this one for fan edits as well as preservation and restoration sites.

I agree with both of you wholeheartedly about the sharing of 35mm scans. Many on Reddit who are sharing these prints don’t understand the damage they are doing to those here who are doing all the work. Others simply don’t care that they are doing damage because they are entitled and selfish to the nth degree. I’ll leave it to you to decide who’s who.

The big problem the people who download these 35mm scans for free with no repercussions is the fact that they don’t have to pay for it so they don’t care. The idea that sharing is caring and the more stuff is shared the more demand there will be for the product is somewhat true from a certain point of view.

The other problem that’s been raised is the erroneous claim and belief that you guys, and others like you, are trying to profit from these prints, which is simply not the case. This is because they have no skin in the game and haven’t had to pay out of their own pockets to fund these projects. They neither understand or don’t care that the money you spend to fund these projects is recouped from donors and that money doesn’t stay in your pocket - it goes right back into making more projects to share with said donors.

That’s the big picture they all miss. It’s a widely held and misconceived notion in those Reddit sub-groups as well as in general that everything should be free, regardless. It’s a ridiculous notion that has no basis in reality.

Right now they download everything for free and share it for free, using Google Drive, MediaFire, and Mega, for example, because they all provide a free amount of storage. But let’s see how generous these same fools would be if tomorrow these storage sites started charging $10 a month for the account plus $10 per Gig of transfer. (Note - I pay for a Mega account that gives me 400 Gig of storage and 2TB of transfer for about $70 so I can trade fan edits). If any of these folks had to pay to share there freely acquired content, the sharing would certainly cease cold.

Another issue I would like to point out here, which I’ve posted about numerous times on Reddit’s Fan Edit group, is that the more content is shared for free, whether fan edits or 35mm scans, the more popular the group becomes and in turn the more attention the group will garner. There’s a reason it took a long time for Napster to be taken down. When only a small group of people were sharing mp3s of songs (at low quality), there was no reason for it to garner any attention. But once it reached critical mass with 320kbps quality and millions of downloads a day, the music studios took notice because sales started to tank.

This same thing will eventually happen with the sharing of fan edits and 35mm scans. It’s not bad enough that certain people are mass posting 35mm scans in one day. You have others who are creating central portals where there’s a one stop shop for download links to thousands of edits. And still others are creating websites of their own to share their dozens of projects, while others are creating streaming channels on Discord to do the same thing for mass consumption.

It’s simply getting out of hand now. I believe it’s just a matter of time before it all reaches critical mass. There’s a reason places like originaltrilogy.com and the IFDB have strict rules about no asking for download links and no posting of direct links to content. It’s for the legal protection of the website/group/community as well as to keep under the radar of the studios.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth…

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In a couple of days I’ll upload The Lion King 35mm to the Internet Archive and various other preservation sites. Others to follow.

In addition to that, maybe post a couple of 2 or 3 minute clips in the comments section of Disney’s official Twitter. When the inevitable “Where’d you get that?” comments roll in, I’ll just let’em know.

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CleeteRonson said:

In a couple of days I’ll upload The Lion King 35mm to the Internet Archive and various other preservation sites. Others to follow.

In addition to that, maybe post a couple of 2 or 3 minute clips in the comments section of Disney’s official Twitter. When the inevitable “Where’d you get that?” comments roll in, I’ll just let’em know.

No scans are being “sold”. Sometimes optional donations are set up because it takes a lot of money, time and resources to create these projects. The folks restoring these scans have homes they need to pay for, families they need to provide for, etc. etc. and film reels, and especially the equipment used to scan and edit them, are not cheap by any means. No one is forcing you to pay, but that option is there for the community to give back to the individuals who donated their own time and money into these projects.

Not to mention, you or any of us here are not entitled to these preservations. If you want to watch a specific movie, guess what? They’re almost all available officially on physical media and/or streaming. Scanning and preserving film prints is extremely niche, and we’re damn lucky that there are people out there who want to work on these preservations in the first place, especially with copyright obviously being a huge concern. Having access to these theatrical film prints is not a right, it is a privilege; one we should not take for granted.

You start doing dumb, childish crap like you mentioned in your comment, and suddenly these preservations will stop being created. And then nobody will be able to enjoy them.

No legitimate preservationist is interested in making a quick buck, or something as silly as clout. Scans aren’t kept private because we “want to feel cool” or whatever other nonsense you heard on Reddit. It’s to keep communities like this from being DMCA’d.

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Hello All. In the past year I’ve started to do lite moderating over at r/fanedits. Lately we’ve started to notice an uptick in 35mm prints. I just got back from a very extended vacation and see that it has caused a major concern. For those who have created these prints and who did not give the ok to share them, I’m sorry they were shared at r/fanedits. All 35mm print posts have been removed from the subreddit while the mod team reviews and seeks to better understand the situation. I’ll be reading over this thread and most likely posting follow up questions.

digmodification.wordpress.com

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[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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RU.08 said:

DigMod said:

There’s not much point in arguing with the people that are doing it. They are selfish, and make assumptions about what I and others are doing that are misguided and unhelpful especially when they tell people the wrong things.

It sounds like users on reddit have similar reflective feelings. I’d like to learn more to better understand both sides.

One of the assumptions that’s definitely wrong is that we don’t own our scans if we don’t own the copyright. That’s not correct at all.

Can you expand on this? Aren’t you creating unauthorized reproductions of source materials that IP and distribution laws restrict?

If they have a passion for 35mm print scans then perhaps they should do some of their own so that they understand what’s involved, and then they can decide for themselves what they want to do with their scans.

Can you share more about this? Are scans only personal scans or are they shared? If shared, what method is expected to obtain a scan? I’ve done a small amount of research in the past when I read about the 4K77 and sliver screen editions and it sounds like a ton of work goes into it, time, expensive and substantial machinery, hardware and software, etc.

I know that some are threatening to report the subreddit for piracy. Every fanedit that is shared technically meets that criteria as well as most any IP content that is hared without the producers of said content receiving compensation. So I can see why some are frustrated when they are called names like freeloaders, trash, etc and likewise I can see why preservationists (please let me know if that is offensive and I will change the reference) are frustrated when they are called elitists and gatekeepers of content. It seems the biggest issues may be the lack of appreciation and respect for the producers of scans and their distribution preferences. I myself try to keep distribution of my edits at the source, me. That way I have a record that people said they do own the source materials. I don’t receive any compensation for any of the embarrassingly long hours I’ve spent editing or buying new hardware/software. Is there a general desire that preservationists have regarding their scans? If scanners just want their scans to be private, it does beg the question of how then do people hear about and obtain them? Some of the information on the barriers to obtaining scans feel like they may flirt with the line of profiting which makes me feel uneasy based on the policies of this and the other prominent fanediting communities. I’d appreciate hearing/reading more from those who do scans and their take on the situation of sharing those scans to better understand. Thanks for your comment!

digmodification.wordpress.com

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As someone who lurks the FanEdits subreddits I just wanted to thank you for clarifying the problem with sharing the 35mm files. This thread gave me a better understanding of the potential problems with that.

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On the argument of people contributing to these projects; where do such things happen? How do I know what is planned to be scanned and how/where can I contribute?

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DigMod said:

Lately we’ve started to notice an uptick in 35mm prints. I just got back from a very extended vacation and see that it has caused a major concern… All 35mm print posts have been removed from the subreddit while the mod team reviews and seeks to better understand the situation. I’ll be reading over this thread and most likely posting follow up questions.

I think honestly it’s probably for the best if they never come back. Not for any of the reasoning that’s been cited previously, some of which is better than others, but because your sub is supposed to be about fanedits and nothing being posted even remotely resembles a fanedit. It’s just straight up piracy, full-stop.

Granted, ALL of this is (and it’s a thing places like this have historically tried to soft-shoe around) full-blown piracy. It’s well-meaning, super-niche, extensive, complicated, caring, careful piracy, but there isn’t any real question of ownership and copyright that isn’t pretty clearly answered by “you’re not supposed to be doing this, because none of this stuff is yours.” The people who scan this stuff know it, the people who upload this stuff to long-calcified private trackers know it, the people who keep a healthy ratio sharing it know it, everyone knows. It’s largely harmless piracy (MOST piracy is, fun fact, but that’s a whole 'nother topic) but it’s still technically illegal activity.

Now: everyone seems to - after almost 30 years now of people talking about and distributing stuff through and around here - have FINALLY realized the tiny piracy niche this place (and the communities orbiting it) occupies isn’t hurting the major studios, and the studios have largely decided since we’re not trying to hurt them, or undercut them, that they’ll leave us all alone.

But so far as a subreddit about fanedits is concerned: I don’t see how someone kicking open the door to myspleen and storing every film scan it’s ever had uploaded to it has anything to do with fanediting. It was off-topic spamming in the first place.

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Thanks MonkeyLizard10 for your post. I’ve actually been a member here since 2015 and understand both OT and FE.org are not archives. I also understand that the preservationists want to keep their circle small. As to the money aspect, every editor loses money. Look at Adywan. Who knows how much he’s lost. He offsets with donations. The hoarding messages I’ve read seam to be more of a response to people sharing that they have said scans, but aren’t willing to share. I can see how that is frustrating to the have nots. Likewise, I can see how you and other preservationists are frustrated with the have nots complaining and sharing scans, as evidence by your name calling of subsets of redditors.

I’d like to better understand the claim that some have made that copyright does not apply to film. Can anyone share that info?

digmodification.wordpress.com