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Making the Obi-Wan & Anakin training session (From the Kenobi series) work in an AOTC edit. — Page 2

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Very cool Octorox! It’s cool to see the scene order I suggested!

I do think, narratively, this is a nice placement for the training scene. We are not (re)introduced to Anakin and Obi until they are explicitly mentioned.

I do think Anjohan’s ordering is also has a lot of merits, and probably makes sense from a practical standpoint, since the physical differences of the actors probably stand out more when the training and elevator scenes are back-to-back. I think it works either way, and just depends on your preference. The differences don’t bother me personally.

Also the background doesn’t bother me either. Trying to add traffic to the background definitely feels like TOO MUCH work to be worth the effort.

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EddieDean said:

Just to be explicit for the purposes of generating some thought, here’re some of the things that scene communicates:

  • They have a fun teasing relationship but Anakin still defers to Obi-Wan’s teaching and wisdom
  • Anakin is aggressive and focused on martial victory, and usually wins their duels
  • Obi-Wan thinks Anakin’s too aggressive and blinded by a need for victory and to prove himself - he’ll remain a Padawan until he’s past this
  • Anakin needs reminding by Obi-Wan that Jedi are defenders
  • Obi-Wan’s patient, and resourceful even when apparently losing

Scenes from AOTC which could be relevant to those threads:

  • Anakin’s eager to protect Padmé - could be read as needing to prove himself
  • Anakin rushes after Zam Wesell when Obi-Wan pursues a smarter approach
  • Anakin murders the Tuskens - “Mercy doesn’t defeat the enemy, master”
  • Anakin vows to Padmé that he’ll find a way to prevent the deaths of those he loves
  • Anakin’s captured by Dooku during his attempted rescue of Obi-Wan
  • Geonosis fight
  • Anakin rushes into the Dooku fight and is defeated

Back then I tried to work out a way by which Anakin/Padme headed from Naboo to Geonosis instead of Tattooine. It requires changing the background that’s visible from the ship’s windows when they receive obi wan’s distress signal, and some tweaking.

But Anakin felt that his mother was in danger when he’s staring at the lake, Padme kinda tries to relieve him, but he closes up staring at the lake and the shot ends.

I wanted Anakin to be actually repressing himself to be a better Jedi. And after that, I had Anakin and Padme visit Tattooine at the end of the movie, with Shmi’s death and everything. The movie would have ended with Anakin departing to the horizon an a “homely” Padme would be left at Tattooine for some time, with his husband marching on to the Clone Wars.

This scene suits that arc for Anakin rather well. Like “I will prove Obiwan that I don’t want to prove myself so I will stay in Naboo” only to later see that if he didn’t stay there, maybe things were different for his mother.

That suits EPIII too, with an arc sort of “I don’t want to make the same mistake again” (and he does worse)

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EddieDean said:

Just to be explicit for the purposes of generating some thought, here’re some of the things that scene communicates:

  • They have a fun teasing relationship but Anakin still defers to Obi-Wan’s teaching and wisdom
  • Anakin is aggressive and focused on martial victory, and usually wins their duels
  • Obi-Wan thinks Anakin’s too aggressive and blinded by a need for victory and to prove himself - he’ll remain a Padawan until he’s past this
  • Anakin needs reminding by Obi-Wan that Jedi are defenders
  • Obi-Wan’s patient, and resourceful even when apparently losing

Scenes from AOTC which could be relevant to those threads:

  • Anakin’s eager to protect Padmé - could be read as needing to prove himself
  • Anakin rushes after Zam Wesell when Obi-Wan pursues a smarter approach
  • Anakin murders the Tuskens - “Mercy doesn’t defeat the enemy, master”
  • Anakin vows to Padmé that he’ll find a way to prevent the deaths of those he loves
  • Anakin’s captured by Dooku during his attempted rescue of Obi-Wan
  • Geonosis fight
  • Anakin rushes into the Dooku fight and is defeated

Back then I tried to work out a way by which Anakin/Padme headed from Naboo to Geonosis instead of Tattooine. It requires changing the background that’s visible from the ship’s windows when they receive obi wan’s distress signal, and some tweaking.

But Anakin felt that his mother was in danger when he’s staring at the lake, Padme kinda tries to relieve him, but he closes up staring at the lake and the shot ends.

I wanted Anakin to be actually repressing himself to be a better Jedi. And after that, I had Anakin and Padme visit Tattooine at the end of the movie, with Shmi’s death and everything. The movie would have ended with Anakin departing to the horizon an a “homely” Padme would be left at Tattooine for some time, with his husband marching on to the Clone Wars.

This scene suits that arc for Anakin rather well. Like “I will prove Obiwan that I don’t want to prove myself so I will stay in Naboo” only to later see that if he didn’t stay there, maybe things were different for his mother.

That suits EPIII too, with an arc sort of “I don’t want to make the same mistake again” (and he does worse)

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This idea is so cool, I hope to see the scene fully integrated in an AotC fanedit at some point!

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Hi could I have a link to your AOTC Edit please

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Octorox said:

Just in case anything thought I had abandoned this idea, I haven’t. I took a stab at implementing RogueLeader’s suggestion, along with some preliminary color grading, and pitching up Anakin’s voice. A ton of work still needs to be done on the foley and score for the duel scene, but here is a new test video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lQvxG9rR0zDwwI6yCnMCqBs8fUDLNOXh/view?usp=sharing

Do you plan to incorporate this scene to your AotC Sanded Down fanedit? It would be quite cool.

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Sarlacc_007 said:

Octorox said:

Just in case anything thought I had abandoned this idea, I haven’t. I took a stab at implementing RogueLeader’s suggestion, along with some preliminary color grading, and pitching up Anakin’s voice. A ton of work still needs to be done on the foley and score for the duel scene, but here is a new test video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lQvxG9rR0zDwwI6yCnMCqBs8fUDLNOXh/view?usp=sharing

Do you plan to incorporate this scene to your AotC Sanded Down fanedit? It would be quite cool.

Honestly I’m not sure. It really depends on how convincingly it can be integrated into the movie. I’m not really happy with the color grade I did, and obviously the foley still needs to be rebuilt, which I haven’t tackled yet. I’d also like to add more JW score to the scene.

Even so, it may not be enough to make it feel seamless.

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If there’s a tradeoff between an opening to AOTC which feels horribly stilted and one that has some visual problems due to de-aging, I’ll take the visual issues any day.

Anyway, since people are suggesting their ideal opening to AOTC here are my two cents:

Landing on Coruscant
Deleted scene of Padme and the Senate
Palpatine’s office (full scene)
Establishing shot of Jedi Temple (using musical sting from Elevator scene) followed by Rescored Training Scene
Padme’s Apartment (Delete elevator scene)

I think that the training scene covers all the introductory vibes we get in the elevator scene, so it should go.

This opening reveals an aspect of the film that didn’t occur to me until today, and that is the reason Palpatine wanted the Jedi assigned to Padme. In the deleted Senate scene, Padme is railing against the Army of the Republic, saying that security is antithetical to liberty. Palpatine recognizes that she could derail his plans, and must find a way to convince her that this security measure is required. Then in the office scene he impresses on her the severity of the situation and convinces her to take on extra security. It’s a direct psychological attack on her ideals.

Placing the martial training scene directly after this office scene drives this point home in a way that the original film does not. The Jedi are soldiers, regardless of what Windu says, and these soldiers have just been placed in the service of a person who detests military solutions.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I really like that Neverar. I will try it out.

My only concern is you lose “I haven’t seen her in ten years master” which establishes his longing for Padme but I guess he whines about that later anyway.

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NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, and since the elevator scene was originally filmed during reshoots, this would be replacing one reshoot with another.

I think if you cut the elevator scene, you have to keep JarJar walking up and greeting them at the elevator. Otherwise I think it might be too abrupt of a transition, but I might be wrong.

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Oh definitely.

There’s also the issue of establishing shots. I don’t recall if the deleted Senate scene has its own establishing shot, but it would probably require one. The office scene would need one, then the Jedi Temple. Since that’s three in a row, it makes sense to cut directly from the training to the apartment interior at the earliest moment with Jar Jar.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

If there’s a tradeoff between an opening to AOTC which feels horribly stilted and one that has some visual problems due to de-aging, I’ll take the visual issues any day.

Anyway, since people are suggesting their ideal opening to AOTC here are my two cents:

Landing on Coruscant
Deleted scene of Padme and the Senate
Palpatine’s office (full scene)
Establishing shot of Jedi Temple (using musical sting from Elevator scene) followed by Rescored Training Scene
Padme’s Apartment (Delete elevator scene)

I think that the training scene covers all the introductory vibes we get in the elevator scene, so it should go.

This opening reveals an aspect of the film that didn’t occur to me until today, and that is the reason Palpatine wanted the Jedi assigned to Padme. In the deleted Senate scene, Padme is railing against the Army of the Republic, saying that security is antithetical to liberty. Palpatine recognizes that she could derail his plans, and must find a way to convince her that this security measure is required. Then in the office scene he impresses on her the severity of the situation and convinces her to take on extra security. It’s a direct psychological attack on her ideals.

Placing the martial training scene directly after this office scene drives this point home in a way that the original film does not. The Jedi are soldiers, regardless of what Windu says, and these soldiers have just been placed in the service of a person who detests military solutions.

This is really good! It also helps to disregard the changes in Hayden’s and Ewan’s age from one scene to another.

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NeverarGreat said:

Oh definitely.

There’s also the issue of establishing shots. I don’t recall if the deleted Senate scene has its own establishing shot, but it would probably require one. The office scene would need one, then the Jedi Temple. Since that’s three in a row, it makes sense to cut directly from the training to the apartment interior at the earliest moment with Jar Jar.

I think there is an establishing shot for the deleted scene on the DVD, but it’s very clearly temp, just concept art that’s been animated a bit. I believe Hal uses a shot from ROTS in his edit, which doesn’t bother me.

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In my cut (not published) I placed the new training shot directly after the assassination on Padme. At the beginning Anakin is looking to the skyline of Coruscant and in this order it seems like he is feeling the attack on Padme.

  1. Coruscant opening & assaination
  2. Obi-Wan & Anakin training (trimmed)
  3. Deleted Scene in the Senate (with opening of the senate building)
  4. Palpatines office (without opening of the building)

For me the Obi-Wan & Anakin training don’t need a Jedi temple shot at the beginning because it has a long zoom out with Anakin and the Skyline.

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The problem with putting the training before Palpatine’s Office is that Star Wars almost always follows a strict continuity of introducing characters where they are introduced and themselves meet or otherwise introduce more characters. The only place in 1-6 where this doesn’t happen is Vader on the Death Star in ROTJ transitioning directly to the droids, but even then a transition was scripted and filmed.

It also seems strange that Anakin would sense Padme’s distress and not even comment on it.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

I agree that the sentence from Mace Windu is helpful for introducing the scene. But for me the problem with putting the training after Palpatines Office is:

  1. Does Anakin know in this scene that he will meet Padmé again? It seems not.
  2. The transition to the next scene (meet Padme) is too fast for me. From no-mercy-Anakin to “I-am-so-nervos-Annie” without a break or another scene between.

For me its ok to break with some strict Star Wars orders… every film is doing this from a certain point of view.
In another way the Anakin&Kenobi-Training is a nice forecast for Palptine & Mace dialog.

NeverarGreat said:

It also seems strange that Anakin would sense Padme’s distress and not even comment on it.

Show, don’t tell 😃 Maybe he is not sure what he is sensing, but he feel something.

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Is there maybe a viable order where the elevator scene comes before the training, which comes before the meeting with Padmé? So in the elevator they’re talking about the forthcoming meeting, but they have training first?

That way it could almost play out that Obi-Wan has deliberately scheduled some training to get Anakin out of awkward teenager mode and clear his head.

This might not work, I’m just spitballing!

The Clone Wars: Refocused

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EddieDean said:

Is there maybe a viable order where the elevator scene comes before the training, which comes before the meeting with Padmé? So in the elevator they’re talking about the forthcoming meeting, but they have training first?

That way it could almost play out that Obi-Wan has deliberately scheduled some training to get Anakin out of awkward teenager mode and clear his head.

This might not work, I’m just spitballing!

You’d have to create a new establishing shot wholecloth. There’s also the fact that the training scene starts with Anakin already there and Obi-Wan entering to meet him. I’m not sure you could cut it together in a way that feels coherent.

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Octorox said:

EddieDean said:

Is there maybe a viable order where the elevator scene comes before the training, which comes before the meeting with Padmé? So in the elevator they’re talking about the forthcoming meeting, but they have training first?

That way it could almost play out that Obi-Wan has deliberately scheduled some training to get Anakin out of awkward teenager mode and clear his head.

This might not work, I’m just spitballing!

You’d have to create a new establishing shot wholecloth. There’s also the fact that the training scene starts with Anakin already there and Obi-Wan entering to meet him. I’m not sure you could cut it together in a way that feels coherent.

So why not cut from the meeting when Palpatine suggest Obiwan and Anakin to them dueling. Then switch to the elevator and subsequent scenes?

Muclunkey!
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Prequel-Trilogy-Revised-Trailer/id/70831

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 (Edited)

The duel is edited in multiple pieces: why not keeping that structure to embedded it into the intro of the movie?

« Sie sind das Essen… wir sind die Jäger! »

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MalaStrana#2 said:

The duel is edited in multiple pieces: why not keeping that structure to embedded it into the intro dction of the movie?

I think this would be at odds with the editing style of the rest of the movie.

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True but it would be aligned with the famous “parallel battle montage” of the Saga. Not sure it would work though with what’s available.

« Sie sind das Essen… wir sind die Jäger! »

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MalaStrana#2 said:

The duel is edited in multiple pieces: why not keeping that structure to embedded it into the intro dction of the movie?

What would you pair it up with? I think Padmé addressing the senate might be the most fitting match.

Ups! Butzenscheibenputzer Lutz putzt Butzenscheiben, die Butzenscheibenputzer Lutz schon geputzt hat.