Sign In

Making the Obi-Wan & Anakin training session (From the Kenobi series) work in an AOTC edit.

Author
Time

So, I really think this scene could slot in nicely in an AOTC edit, between the opening bombing and the scene in Palpatine’s office (or after the Senate deleted scene, if you use that). I think it gives a nice bit of extra context to Anakin’s frustrations with Obi-Wan, and it really shows off how skilled he is, which may make him seem like a bit less of a brat.

However there’s a lot that would need to be addressed about the scene to make it fit in stylistically with Attack of the Clones. These include:
-De-aging on Anakin to match his appearance in AOTC.
-A New Color Grade to match AOTC (preferably the HDTV version) Ideally, it would probably be better to work from 10-bit HDR but I used an 8-bit SDR version since the deaged clips I found were also SDR.
-Particularly shaky shots will need to be stabilized to better match George Lucas’s style of cinematography. (The battle on Geonosis actually has some handheld shots but they are used pretty sparingly)
-A brand new 5.1 sound mix with appropriate John Williams music and new foley.

To start, I’ve cut the scene together and used AI software to isolate the dialogue. This effectively removes the music but unfortunately also means the foley will need to be built from the ground up. I’ve also borrowed some de-aged shots from the YouTuber Darth Porg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhPmdlUuwOI
There are others out there but I thought these looked pretty good.

Here is the clip in full 4K ProRes for those who’d like to tinker, it’s a large file. While AOTC was shot in 1080p, the 4K gives more latitude to crop and stabilize shots: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1joyQ5fIUGD57AtC8TI9Slx0Y0zasQdj-/view?usp=sharing

Author
Time

Another thing that needs to be changed about that scene is Coruscant. The background of Coruscant from that duel doesn’t look like Coruscant from the Prequels at all, it almost looks like a painted picture, immobile and also badly done. So I think we should add shots of Coruscant from the Prequel films and somehow replace the background.

«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)

Author
Time

Personally, I feel that it’s like trying to cut in the SC38 Obi VS Vader fight to the original 1977 version. The cinematography is too different, the camera and lenses are too different, and the dead giveaway would be the global illumination due to the background literally an encapsulating volume of LED lights, while back in 2002 they used green screen and reasonable yet outdated compositing to try and the Coruscant background in AOTC.

this post has been edited.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Dat_SW_Guy said:

Personally, I feel that it’s like trying to cut in the SC38 Obi VS Vader fight to the original 1977 version. The cinematography is too different, the camera and lenses are too different, and the dead giveaway would be the global illumination due to the background literally an encapsulating volume of LED lights, while back in 2002 they used green screen and reasonable yet outdated compositing to try and the Coruscant background in AOTC.

These are all good points, but The Phantom Menace literally cuts HDCAM shots into a movie shot on 35mm and they do stand out a bit. Same with the CGI shots in the special editions. I don’t think matching the character of the rest of the footage was something GL ever overly concerned himself with. I feel like if we could get it 80% of the way there, most audiences would be able to buy it. A lot of it would come down to the color grade.

I also think SC38 reimagined just doesn’t work from a storytelling perspective, whereas I do feel like this scene enhances the story and adds context.

Author
Time

I don’t know if you have the resources to do this, but I think that it’ll be better to make Anakin’s voice higher, because his voice in AOTC and in OWK are notably different. Maybe not in all the shots, but in the beginning of the flashback for example, his voice is clearly deeper, and this can contrast with the rest of his scenes in AOTC.

Author
Time

Sirius said:

I don’t know if you have the resources to do this, but I think that it’ll be better to make Anakin’s voice higher, because his voice in AOTC and in OWK are notably different. Maybe not in all the shots, but in the beginning of the flashback for example, his voice is clearly deeper, and this can contrast with the rest of his scenes in AOTC.

That would honestly be trivially easy but I’m not sure I hear the difference you’re talking about.

Author
Time

If you’re gonna do it, I think it’d be wise to use a deepfake of young Hayden and Ewan. They’re both noticeably older in that scene.

Author
Time

I think Octorox said he is using a deepfake.

I agree that Hayden’s voice is slightly deeper than how he sounded 20 years ago. If you go back and forth and listen to his voice in the rest of the movie, you can maybe tell better.

It seems a bit of people place it right after the bombing, which is probably a good place. But I feel like there is a natural segue between the bombing and their training, when usually there is a narrative flow between scenes (with the exception of ROTJ). After the bombing, it makes sense to go to Padmé’s senate deleted scene, or the council meeting with Palpatine to discuss the problems in the Republic.

Idk if it would work but I also could picture a version where Palpatine is talking about putting her under the protection of the Jedi, and Palpatine says, “maybe someone you’re familiar with, like an old friend…” (either cut there or keep ‘Master Kenobi’) then hard cut to the Anakin/Obi-Wan training scene.

The only issue with that would be you would go straight from that to the elevator scene, so the difference in their appearance could potentially be more noticeable, but if we are just considering the narrative flow I think this is a logical place for the scene to be. It would be nice to add an extra line for Obi-Wan, where he walks off camera after practicing with Anakin and says something like, “Come now”, or “Let’s go”. Or maybe hear Obi-Wan’s comm beep to life and hear Windu’s voice say, “Obi-Wan”, then cut to them riding the elevator.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

That makes a lot of sense RogueLeader. The only thing I’d be concerned about is, like you said, the transition between the training scene and the elevator.

And if you want to check out the de-aged shots I used (I think the creator partially used deepfaking), click on the ProRes link in the first post. Only Anakin is de-aged, but I honestly think Obi-Wan’s age difference is less noticeable than his fake beard in many shots in the movie (Especially at 1080p), so I’m not that worried about it.

I could use the help of a good audio person on the foley work for this scene. I don’t have a ton of experience with mixing new audio in 5.1, and my previous edits generally haven’t involved a lot of foley work.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Yeah, I don’t know… The idea is awesome, but putting the flashback scene side by side with AOTC scenes still don’t seems to fit to me. Even with the deepfake on Hayden, he still looks very different from when he was younger (he was skinny in AOTC, and now he has a thick neck, for example). Even Mcgregor looks so much different too, the voice, the wig/hair…

Maybe if you manage to make their skin tones be more or less the same from when they were younger, and the tone of voice too, the difference could be less noticiable. If you notice, they looked a little tanned back then. At least, that’s the impression I get.

Author
Time

Octorox said:

Just in case anything thought I had abandoned this idea, I haven’t. I took a stab at implementing RogueLeader’s suggestion, along with some preliminary color grading, and pitching up Anakin’s voice. A ton of work still needs to be done on the foley and score for the duel scene, but here is a new test video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lQvxG9rR0zDwwI6yCnMCqBs8fUDLNOXh/view?usp=sharing

I quite liked it. We need to add some traffic in the sky maybe

Author
Time

Octorox said:

Just in case anything thought I had abandoned this idea, I haven’t. I took a stab at implementing RogueLeader’s suggestion, along with some preliminary color grading, and pitching up Anakin’s voice. A ton of work still needs to be done on the foley and score for the duel scene, but here is a new test video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lQvxG9rR0zDwwI6yCnMCqBs8fUDLNOXh/view?usp=sharing

Looks great, I’m a big fan of any AOTC extended version ideas 😉 I think this scene would fit really nicely in the movie and it really adds to the whole subplot of Anakin being frustrated that Obi-wan is limitating him. I ve always thought that AOTC is the movie that would benefit a lot if the delete scenes were reinserted there, I have a huge nostalgią for that Episode.

Author
Time

It’s a really nice idea.

The scene itself has a lot of great character work in just a few lines, and some good visual moments too, like Anakin using some very aggressive moves on Obi-Wan.

The scene naturally fits right at the start of AOTC- the episode with the weakest character work- so placed as our (re)introduction to these characters for this movie it implies a lot about their arcs we’re about to see.

I wonder what elements from this scene would make other moments from the film play a little better? Which strong threads are generated in this scene that we might play up?

The Clone Wars: Refocused

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Just to be explicit for the purposes of generating some thought, here’re some of the things that scene communicates:

  • They have a fun teasing relationship but Anakin still defers to Obi-Wan’s teaching and wisdom
  • Anakin is aggressive and focused on martial victory, and usually wins their duels
  • Obi-Wan thinks Anakin’s too aggressive and blinded by a need for victory and to prove himself - he’ll remain a Padawan until he’s past this
  • Anakin needs reminding by Obi-Wan that Jedi are defenders
  • Obi-Wan’s patient, and resourceful even when apparently losing

Scenes from AOTC which could be relevant to those threads:

  • Anakin’s eager to protect Padmé - could be read as needing to prove himself
  • Anakin rushes after Zam Wesell when Obi-Wan pursues a smarter approach
  • Anakin murders the Tuskens - “Mercy doesn’t defeat the enemy, master”
  • Anakin vows to Padmé that he’ll find a way to prevent the deaths of those he loves
  • Anakin’s captured by Dooku during his attempted rescue of Obi-Wan
  • Geonosis fight
  • Anakin rushes into the Dooku fight and is defeated

The Clone Wars: Refocused

Author
Time

Don’t forget his line about ObiWan holding him back. In the duel scene we literally hear ObiWan telling Anakin that he’ll be held back until he learns a lesson that he doesn’t think he needs.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Octorox said:

Just in case anything thought I had abandoned this idea, I haven’t. I took a stab at implementing RogueLeader’s suggestion, along with some preliminary color grading, and pitching up Anakin’s voice. A ton of work still needs to be done on the foley and score for the duel scene, but here is a new test video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lQvxG9rR0zDwwI6yCnMCqBs8fUDLNOXh/view?usp=sharing

Very nice! But I still think the background of Coruscant needs some re-working, because it doesn’t seem like Coruscant from the Prequels at all. We need someone who’s good with special effects, or at least we need to put some captures from the three Prequel films to create a coherent Coruscant background.

«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)

Author
Time

Honestly the Coruscant background doesn’t bother me that much. I think it looks a lot better than the backgrounds in some of the deleted scenes, especially the Mace and Obi-Wan deleted scene, which hasn’t stopped it from being used in all the most popular fan edits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeK8HoReVo0

To me, the biggest issue with getting the footage to mesh well is actually the lighting. Due to the use of the volume it’s very natural, with daylight illuminating the background and the foreground mostly in relative shadow. This is in contrast to Attack of the Clones, in which scene like this would have been shot in front of a green screen. The actors and the foreground elements would have had to be evenly and brightly lit in order to clearly key out the background. George Lucas also tends to go for more traditional lighting and staging techniques in general.

Author
Time

I personally think the definitive best way to pace it would be:

-> Original opening with Padme assassination attempt
-> Deleted Scene of Padme at the Senate Hearing (it’s a good scene on its own, and it will help calm down the intense opening for a smoother transition
-> New establishing shot (fanmade -> Coruscant Exterior, a Jedi-worthy, subtle soundtrack
-> AOTC Flashback incorporation (color graded, Anakin’s voice pitched down, deepfake incorporated)
-> Chancellor Palpatine’s Office, Padme and Mace Windu talks -> suggestion of Obi-Wan and Anakin to assist
-> Anakin & Obi-Wan in elevator

This introduces all main and side characters (except Dooku) in the opening ten minutes, would provide smooth transitions between the hard opening, but most importantly; a time span of what could be a full day before we see Anakin & Obi-Wan again after their Flashback scene, so for the audience to disregard the subtle changes in actor’s age and differences between the two very different shooting schedules.

My two cents.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Also, would definitely re-score the Flashback with AOTC music - preferably the Padme’s Apartment soundtracks, but mixed to fit with Anakin’s emotions (like his Mother Theme).

#Jedit:

One could even incorporate a sort of opening montage, with the focus on Jedi Training, were one could incorporate the Reeva Order 66 opening and cut it before the Clones enter -> Do some exterior shots mixed with the Anakin&Obi-Wan training spliced up (turn some of them into night time to accompany Reeva Order 66 scene) -> and make the AOTC opening be like a “A Day in a Jedi’s life” type of opening. This is just ramblings, but it could work with the right amount of footage, music and tone set.

Author
Time

Anjohan said:

I personally think the definitive best way to pace it would be:

-> Original opening with Padme assassination attempt
-> Deleted Scene of Padme at the Senate Hearing (it’s a good scene on its own, and it will help calm down the intense opening for a smoother transition
-> New establishing shot (fanmade -> Coruscant Exterior, a Jedi-worthy, subtle soundtrack
-> AOTC Flashback incorporation (color graded, Anakin’s voice pitched down, deepfake incorporated)
-> Chancellor Palpatine’s Office, Padme and Mace Windu talks -> suggestion of Obi-Wan and Anakin to assist
-> Anakin & Obi-Wan in elevator

This introduces all main and side characters (except Dooku) in the opening ten minutes, would provide smooth transitions between the hard opening, but most importantly; a time span of what could be a full day before we see Anakin & Obi-Wan again after their Flashback scene, so for the audience to disregard the subtle changes in actor’s age and differences between the two very different shooting schedules.

My two cents.

AGREED

«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)

Author
Time

Octorox said:

To start, I’ve cut the scene together and used AI software to isolate the dialogue.

Could you share what AI software you used to isolate the dialogue?