Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal — Page 51

negative1 said:

AntcuFaalb said:

 

Do you (can you?!) plan to release a non-cleaned-up scaled-down version? It'd be very useful for those of us who'd like to play with the raw scans, but can't afford to send you 15-20TB worth of hard-drives.

What resizing algorithm do you plan to use to scale-down the images?

What you're doing is amazing -- thanks!

there are plans for the raw image data to be released. but we haven't finalized it yet, because we are adding more capture data, and the size of it is around 6-8 T.

It's going to be hard to figure out how to do shipping and things for. i don't have highspeed connections, so putting it up on usenet is out of the questions, and it's way to much data to put on disks. so unless someone can come up with a good plan, it's going to be very tricky.

we never had to deal with this amount of data before.

 

later

-1

I would be happy enough with an Xvid version, just to enjoy the vintage look of the scratches/hair/dirt/etc..

SW & ESB was actually on 6 reels. One reel is around 20 minutes.

msycamore said:

SW & ESB was actually on 6 reels.

Darth Mallwalker said:

 

Puggo and I had a good laugh at this one ;) ;) ;)
I say twelve, while he insists it's three.

Shirley one of them is correct ... from a certain point of view!?

I think Puggo also should insists it's six. ;)

I find it interesting that the SE of ESB stayed as a six-reel film with it's added content even though the original were pushing the limit already.

Davnes007 said:

I would be happy enough with an Xvid version, just to enjoy the vintage look of the scratches/hair/dirt/etc..

i have made plans for several versions:

1) grindhouse red version

2) grindhouse color version with the

deleted scenes put back in

3) grindhouse color version (original)

most of these will be 720p/480p and in

mkv/avi formats..

there will be more variations i'm sure..

later

-1

none said:

Late night typing again... if the movie is 6-8 TB (raw pics directly from the camera) and there are 6 reels, that's 1-1.33 TB per reel.  (two e's)

1 reel = 20 min = 28800 frames... 208mb / frame... that doesn't sound right...? 

 

According to this site: http://www.pgreen.co.uk/resolutionsize.htm

To store the basic scans for a 2K Digital Intermediate of a 90 minute feature:

• 1 second = 24 frames
• 1 min: 24 frames x 60 = 1440 frames per minute
• 90 min's: 1440 x 90 = 129 600 frames per feature film
• 12Mb x 129 600 = 1 555 200 Mb or over 1.5 Tb

Storage - 4K

• 48Mb x 129 600 = 6 220 800 Mb or over 6.2 Tb

So revise the numbers from 90 min to 120 or so and maybe there's some minor compression savings and thus -1, 6-8 TB values make sense.

those numbers all seem to make sense

we do have other factors.. the bit depth is a major one..

starting at the high end :

------------------------------

4k scan / 16 bit depth TIFF files - 2 hour movie

(including alpha channel with IR information for

dust and dirt) 

=   20+ Terabytes

2k files / 10 bit depth TIFF files - 2 hour movie

=  8 - 10 T

1080p / 10 bit depth TIFF files - 2 hour movie

= 6 - 8 T

=====================================

Again, to keep things manageable we'll have to do

with the raw untouched files scaled down to 1080p.

And have them as an image sequence, such as TIFF/DPX.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

There might be some savings due to compression.

But if you're converting them to video, you can use

compression then.

Since we have might have multiple parts, and multiple

movies, we still have to figure out what to do with the

replacement parts, and the red reels versions too.

later

-1 

-1, would it be possible to get a good, full, hi-res picture of the old Emperor hologram from TESB? Would be much appreciated if you have the time, thanks. :)

Well, I just did a backup lossless encode of my DeEd files with 8 bit Ut Video YUV 420 (ULY0) VCM x86 and the whole movie (and we're talking the same movie here) in 720p takes up 80GB. So I assume 2K would take up around 200GB. Much more manageable size and I'm sure that the majority of people who want the untouched scans would be ok with the solution. Just saying.

lucasdroid said:

I saw you were using Avid.  What about using the DNX codec to give to people?  Also how are you getting the IR channel?  Isn't that something a scanner would do? 

that was just an example.

of the high end sizes IF we had that data.

not implying that we have it.

we are probably not going to use high end codecs

or make people install stuff like KONA, etc. very few

people have the resources or the actual programs

to use them anyways.

we will provide the still frames, most

likely in TIFF files. because that's the easiest way to do it..

what about downsamples?

==========================================

harmy brings up a very good point.

a 720p release of the data first would get people

something to work with first, in a much smaller

set, but still enough to work on. 

if you're interested, i'm thinking this will be

what we could put out first. and then if there

is a need for more. we can go from there.

later

-1

LexX said:

-1, would it be possible to get a good, full, hi-res picture of the old Emperor hologram from TESB? Would be much appreciated if you have the time, thanks. :)

vader and the emperor:

------------------------------

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Colortiming-Cinematography-was-What-changes-was-done-to-STAR-WARS-in-93/post/590630/#TopicPost590630

later

-1

negative1 said:

LexX said:

-1, would it be possible to get a good, full, hi-res picture of the old Emperor hologram from TESB? Would be much appreciated if you have the time, thanks. :)

vader and the emperor:

------------------------------

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Colortiming-Cinematography-was-What-changes-was-done-to-STAR-WARS-in-93/post/590630/#TopicPost590630

 

later

-1

Thank you very much. :)

Laserschwert said:

negative1 said:

harmy brings up a very good point.

a 720p release of the data first would get people

something to work with first, in a much smaller

set, but still enough to work on.

Though I don't think that's what Harmy meant ;-)

I think it was just an example to point out that a 2k sized version of the raw version doesn't need to be in the terabyte region.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Even just a high bitrate 1080p h264 encode of the raw files would probably do nicely too and that wouldn't have to be over 50GB. I definitely wouldn't go under 1080p with this. Distributing anything as Tiff image sequence seems pretty dumb to me (no disrespect meant) as it will be unnecessarily huge without offering any substantial advantage in quality. Even a png image sequence would likely be a better choice but a freeware lossless video codec such as Ut Video or Lagarith would probably be the best choice.

And as to your personal convenience (which quite understandably has to be an issue) I'm convinced that encoding and uploading a 2K/1080p less than 200GB lossless video file would be more convenient (and less time consuming) than copying 6TB to an external HDD several times; The average speed of copying data to a USB HDD is around (usually under) 20Mb/s, so copying 6TB to a USB device would take days!

Brooks said:

I'm confused.  They're using an 8mp camera right?  My 8mp rebel takes RAW shots that are around 7-10 mb per shot, nowhere near 208.  ???

that may be true. 

but we have other things going on that we haven't talked

about here but on the blog. (in regards to files, file sizes, etc)

that's why i'm not going to the exact specifics of the files,

what we're including, what's there, and also it's still 

changing.

anyways, don't worry about any of it. it's quite aways off

until we have to deal with them. and yes, i did understand

what harmy was saying. but i still like the idea of putting

out a 720p working version first just to get things started.

there's very few people that can deal with the 1080p data

or higher. and even less that will be able to do something

with the final files. although we have multiple backups,

it doesn't hurt to have more.

we WILL be using image files as the final format, it's

easier for you to deal with, because you won't have

to extract frames to use them. and then you can arrange

them anyway you want. i know about way too many

propietary and clunky video formats, and even though

i have tons of them installed now because of this,

it's just a pain to work with, and causes all sorts of

conflicts on your system if you don't set it up right.

later

-1

none said:

Late night typing again... if the movie is 6-8 TB (raw pics directly from the camera) and there are 6 reels, that's 1-1.33 TB per reel.  (two e's)

1 reel = 20 min = 28800 frames... 208mb / frame... that doesn't sound right...? 

how did you get that?

i get 1 T=1024 Gigs = 1048576 MB / 28800 = 36.41 MB/frame

from a tech site

about 4k files
--------------------

Approximate Converted File Sizes for 4096 x 2048 Images at 24 fps

• DPX: 32 MB/frame or 768 MB/sec
• CineForm 444: ranges 50-100 MBytes/s
• CineForm RAW: ranges 25-50MBytes/s

and to read more about some conversion

issues and details

============================

http://techblog.cineform.com/?p=2168

later

-1

I'm sure the final restored version will be in 1080p and be made available for BD25 Blu-ray disks. Hopefully there will also be an optional BD50 version for maximum quality and minimal video compression. The original unaltered Star Wars trilogy in 1080p with 50 gigs for each movie and optimum Blu-ray goodness, ahh.... 8O)

here's some preliminary test

numbers to look at:

han shot first:

==========================

for 1min 16.03 seconds

we have about 1820 frames.

the file size is 9.86 gigs,

so we get : 5.54 mb/frame at that bitrate

and depth

downconvert to a very small size,

with part trimmed.

-------------------------------------------------------

here there are 1347 frames and the bitrate

is much lower for the avi version. of course

the filesize is tiny compared to the uncompressed

version. only a few megabytes.

later

-1