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Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal — Page 44

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ok finally created a vimeo account,

after all the hassles with youtube.

 

first up.. a dolby trailer..

the first part is without the filmguard treatment,

and the second is with the treatment.

 

1080p WMV (note: was a half hour away

from being converted online - done now!)

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https://vimeo.com/45804971

download from here:

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http://www.sendspace.com/file/4vqt6v

 

here's filmguard used on an oceans 11 trailer..

untreated on top/treated on bottom.. slightly

out of sync though..  864x720 res AVI

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http://www.sendspace.com/file/ovrz0x

 

later

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How are you guys applying the Filmguard? Are you actually using that applicator system they supply? Just as a word of caution, too - too much Filmguard is possible, and it is not good.

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ww12345 said:

How are you guys applying the Filmguard? Are you actually using that applicator system they supply? Just as a word of caution, too - too much Filmguard is possible, and it is not good.

very carefully.

lightly applying to the film with a soft

cloth. we're taking every precaution.

 

that's why we're running all these tests

first.

 

later

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Cool. I just know that I've overapplied Filmguard when using it by hand (and wound up with a sticky, lint-attracting mess) so I wanted to give you a heads up!

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Wow that's like night and day almost. So does the stuff work by "filling in" the emulsion? Similair to how you can project from inside a fluid?

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That's exactly what it does. All you want is a very thin layer, and it will cover up all the scratches, and also do a little bit of dustbusting! :)

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ww12345 said:

That's exactly what it does. All you want is a very thin layer, and it will cover up all the scratches, and also do a little bit of dustbusting! :)

i'll see if i can get some pictures of applying it,

or what the film looks like..

 

later

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Filmguard (right sample) seems effective even on long vertical scratches (or dirt lines?), perhaps almost too effective as some light is beginning to shine through on the right edge of the scratch, so you'll get a white line instead of a black one, but overall the cleaning effect is quite impressive.

Is the colour shift caused by Filmguard? there's much less green in the treated sample.

 

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It shouldn't case color shift unless it was on an Eastman stock or something fade-prone, in which case the colors being removed would be part of the base dissolving or decomposing.

Filmguard is cleaning out that scratch line - it has minor cleaning properties. Basically, when you see a black scratch, that is dirt in the hole. Each of the other colors are emulsion layers being exposed, until you get to the white/clear base color of the film!

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That filmguard treatment looks fantastic. Not quite sure how exactly it works (blurs the image where it 'seeps' into the scratches perhaps (Edit: doh somebody above beat me to it lol!) but very impressive. I believe they use a similar process for the 1989 restoration of Lawrence of Arabia!

Glad to see Star Wars getting the deluxe treatment/handling it deserves. This is the only SW project I'm still excited about seeing, other than Harmy's v.2 of Star Wars.

Have to see do miss the updates on the Jedi1 site, but understand the reasons why ;)

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for more information on filmguard, see this:

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http://www.film-tech.com/products/filmguard.php

 

How does it work?  Simple.  FilmGuard is a non-evaporating lubricant and cleaner.  All other liquid film cleaners currently on the market, such as VitaFilm, RTI, ECCO, Renovex and FilmRenew to name a few, are designed as a cleaner/lubricant, but only really provide cleaning benefits due to their evaporative qualities.  Pads of some sort are soaked in the liquid and then the film is quickly dragged through the cloth, before the cleaner evaporates.  The second most popular method of cleaning film is through the use of PTR rollers.  Upon my personal testing of these, I have found they don't really accomplish anything.  In fact a theater I worked at tried a side by side comparison between a dry web media cleaner ran once a week vs. a PTR cleaning system ran every show.  The prints were both brand new, of the same film stock and movie, run on exactly the same projection equipment and by the same caring operators, with the projectors thouroughly cleaned out after each run.  To put it simply, after one week the PTR print looked dirty and the print that had only been cleaned once with a dry web media cleaner still looked good.

 

First, FilmGuard will deep clean better than any other liquid cleaner on the market.  I have taken many an older print and run it through FilmGuard several times and cleaned up virtually all of the dirt and even covered up base side scratches.

Second, FilmGuard is polyestar safe!  As everyone knows, the switch to polyestar film was accompanied by a loss of ability to lubricate prints at the theater level, and even recent attempts to lubricate prints at the lab do not work effectively.  FilmGuard is the first cleaner which is safe to apply to polyester film since Warner Brothers introduction of Estar film stock with "The Fugitive."  Prints ran with FilmGuard run smoother, steadier and quieter than prints without.

Finally, since FilmGuard is designed  to NOT evaporate, a thin coating is created on both sides of the film.  Thus, the film is in a way "submerged" in liquid and will project to the screen with true "wet gate" qualities, the likes of which can only be seen today in laserdiscs, DVDs and the Texas Instruments' new DLP video projection system.  As I mentioned above, since the film is covered in liquid, many base side scratches, just like in wet gate printing, will be covered up and will not project to the screen...even though they are still there.  With FilmGuard, you will have all these benefits without having to purchase new equipment or make any modifications to existing equipment.

 

yes, marketing hype, but some information in there..

 

will have a preview of r4 comparison with

some cleanup coming shortly..

 

later

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Here's a cool promo on the Jaws restoration for the upcoming blu-ray release.  I assume that is film guard they are using in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLWvXaeDzwU

 

Nice to see a studio actually treating a classic film with the respect that it deserves.  They are doing a similar restoration for the Indiana Jones Trilogy.

 

 

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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Interesting stuff - thanks for that! Wonder what the long-term effects of using filmguard treated prints are though. Visions of sticky rolls of film in the future? One hopes they did some accelerated age testing on film stock ;)

Whatever the future concerns may be from using this liquid, certainly does a great job of cleaning up the image though!

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Cobra Kai said:

Here's a cool promo on the Jaws restoration for the upcoming blu-ray release.  I assume that is film guard they are using in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLWvXaeDzwU

 

Nice to see a studio actually treating a classic film with the respect that it deserves.  They are doing a similar restoration for the Indiana Jones Trilogy.

 

 

Only Raiders got the full restoration treatment alas. The upcoming blurays apparently use the 2003 HD transfers (used for the DVD sets), with a bit of digital tinkering, for TOD and TLC.

 

The Jaws restoration looks amazing from the HD clips I've seen. Ditto for Raiders too.

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7FN said:

Cobra Kai said:

Here's a cool promo on the Jaws restoration for the upcoming blu-ray release.  I assume that is film guard they are using in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLWvXaeDzwU

 

Nice to see a studio actually treating a classic film with the respect that it deserves.  They are doing a similar restoration for the Indiana Jones Trilogy.

 

 

Only Raiders got the full restoration treatment alas. The upcoming blurays apparently use the 2003 HD transfers (used for the DVD sets), with a bit of digital tinkering, for TOD and TLC.

 

The Jaws restoration looks amazing from the HD clips I've seen. Ditto for Raiders too.

 

Oh ok.  I remember seeing a video about Raiders, and I assumed they were doing it for all three.  

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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7FN said:

Interesting stuff - thanks for that! Wonder what the long-term effects of using filmguard treated prints are though. Visions of sticky rolls of film in the future? One hopes they did some accelerated age testing on film stock ;)

Whatever the future concerns may be from using this liquid, certainly does a great job of cleaning up the image though!

from the site:

=========

Are there any side effects to using FilmGuard?  None that have come up in almost ten years of testing.  Thus far, all test theaters as well as my own experimenting have turned out virtually perfect results every time, regardless of the film stock or type of projection equipment used.  However there are two added and unexpected benefits with the FilmGuard sytem.


Has your theater ever had a roof leak water onto a print?  I have ran across seven.  Two of those were at theaters currently testing FilmGuard.  Even after considerable water dripped onto the print, the film still ran perfectly fine and projected flawlessly!  The other five were at other non-test theaters.  When those prints were attempted to be unraveled, the film stuck together and was very tacky, the emulsion literally peeling off.  By putting clamps on the print and standing it upright, we were able to soak some thick paper towels with FilmGuard and wipe it on both sides of the film, literally to the point where the edges of the print were shining with FilmGuard liquid.  After letting it soak in for a few minutes, we found we could thread up the movie as normal and ran it through a freshly soaked set of new media pads and only the tail end of the film which was attempted to be unraveled before applying FilmGuard wouldn't project.  The rest of the print looked perfect!


The second unintentional benefit has not had a lot of testing, but I offer it here for what it is worth.  I am speaking of Vinegar Syndrome.  I have had several prints come my way with a distinct vinegar odor to them, coated them with FilmGuard and after 5 years are still running beautifully without any vinegar smell.  Is this a cure?  Well, I'm not sure.  Again I have not done enough testing to promise that.  However, if anyone uses FilmGuard specifically for this purpose, I would be very interested to know the results and will post them here.


There has to be something negative related to FilmGuard.  Yes, but it is minor.  The first time FilmGuard is applied to a print you will notice some light streaking which looks like water on the film.  This is normal and will disappear within 1-2 shows.  It is part of the coating process.  This is also why I strongly recommend FilmGuard be applied starting on the FIRST run-through showing.  This way, the public only sees a perfectly clean presentation.


Also, FilmGuard was not intended for use with Photoguarded prints.  FilmGuard will not damage them, but will offer no benefits as the lubricant cannot penetrate through the Photoguard.  However, Photoguarded prints are a rarity and most theaters will never run one.  In addition, FilmGuard should not be used on endless loop platter systems.  However, endless loop cabinets are fine.

 

later

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7FN said:



Cobra Kai said:
.

 

 


Only Raiders got the full restoration treatment alas. The upcoming blurays apparently use the 2003 HD transfers (used for the DVD sets), with a bit of digital tinkering, for TOD and TLC.

 

The Jaws restoration looks amazing from the HD clips I've seen. Ditto for Raiders too.


Uhh...according to this site, no.

“This is the best I think it’s ever looked, because in preparation for the eventual release on blu-ray we had to correct the print again and get the original negative out of the salt mines, and then we had to do the separations, and basically the files, which are just amazing, with all the technology of today, without changing any of the movie materially, we haven’t removed anything, we haven’t added CGI, there’s no digital enhancements! It’s purely the movie some of you may remember from 1981.”

http://screenrant.com/indiana-jones-collection-bluray-release-date-benm-157070/

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Well, the quote only confirms that a full on restoration was only done for one film. But to be honest, it seems to me that judging from the HDTV broadcasts of the other two, they didn't really need a new restoration.

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Oh yeah, crap. Should read things more closely.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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They don't need restoration, but new transfers to really get all the detail out of the films. Raiders had a full scale 4K job done by Ron Smith before he left Paramount (he also did Ten Commandments and the like) and so I have some faith in what the eventual product will look like. That said the new 35mm print has issues and seems to be a bit revealing of the work that was done. I don't know if it's quite the same film that was released in 1981 visually.

Jaws looks as though it will be tampered with so that the Blu-ray will look nice, but in no way indicative of a film release din 1975.

-1 interesting tests with the FilmGuard. If it goes successfully are you going to use it on selected damaged parts?

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Out of interest, what difference, if any is there between filmguard and a wet gate transfer.

I have heard of the latter in terms of telecine, but not the former before this topic?

Is filmguard just a product name?

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captainsolo said:

-1 interesting tests with the FilmGuard. If it goes successfully are you going to use it on selected damaged parts?

depends..

on the lpp print, maybe select parts.

on the red reels, the whole thing..

 

 

DVD-BOY said:

Out of interest, what difference, if any is there between filmguard and a wet gate transfer.

I have heard of the latter in terms of telecine, but not the former before this topic?

Is filmguard just a product name?

 

 

 

filmguard is just a product name as mentioned in the links

above. the difference is the process alters the film by coating it.

 

later

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Well I do not think that what they are doing on Jaws

Is a bad thing. It looks more like what should have been dun for the SW SE.

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ww12345 said:

It shouldn't case color shift unless it was on an Eastman stock or something fade-prone, in which case the colors being removed would be part of the base dissolving or decomposing.

Filmguard is cleaning out that scratch line - it has minor cleaning properties. Basically, when you see a black scratch, that is dirt in the hole. Each of the other colors are emulsion layers being exposed, until you get to the white/clear base color of the film!

 

correct, this is what cinch has to say about it:

"no, it doesn't alter color space at all. the change on the dolby trailer was just due to different color temperatures set on the capturing cam, that's all. filmguard doesn't even cause changes in opacity, so it is optically clear."

later

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Interesting work with the film guard. 

So is anyone on here a lawyer?  Your skills might come in handy when this thing is released.