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Making of Return of the Jedi (the book) Thread — Page 8

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pittrek said:

I know I repeat myself but does anybody know what exactly does digital release mean?

You can buy it on Kindle. It is a book in digital format, so you can read it on computer.

真実

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Thanks for the responses guys, I don't have a Kindle so I hope I will be able to "run" it somehow

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Pfluegermeister at TFN notes that in the November 1, 1981 revised second draft of ROTJ, Luke delivers this line to the Emperor:

"Never! Never will I turn to the dark side. You have failed, your highness. I am a Jedi as my father was before me, and as his father was before him."

The November 1 revised second-draft script was one where Lucas took Kasdan's typewritten second draft and added his own handwritten revisions. Thus, Lucas himself was responsible for this line.... which entirely excludes the possibility of a virgin birth for Anakin.

The idea that Anakin's own father (whoever he might be) was a Jedi certainly reinforces the idea that GL was already thinking about Force potential in genetic terms. On the other hand, it makes the story that Obi-Wan had to "discover" Anakin and recruit him into the Jedi Order (as Ben tells Luke in Kasdan's draft) a bit strange.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Anybody* can learn to play piano.  Certain people have more or less innate talent.  They can be discovered and encouraged to develop that talent.

 

 

 

 

*Nearly.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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ATMachine said:

Pfluegermeister at TFN notes that in the November 1, 1981 revised second draft of ROTJ, Luke delivers this line to the Emperor:

"Never! Never will I turn to the dark side. You have failed, your highness. I am a Jedi as my father was before me, and as his father was before him."

The November 1 revised second-draft script was one where Lucas took Kasdan's typewritten second draft and added his own handwritten revisions. Thus, Lucas himself was responsible for this line.... which entirely excludes the possibility of a virgin birth for Anakin.

But since it isn't in the movie, what's your point? That Lucas should commit to ideas that ended up on the writing room floor?

Kitbashed
Essays, videos and thoughts on the inspiration behind Star Wars.

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Perhaps he's just trying to drive home the point that Georgey's stupid idea to make Anakin Christ wasn't an idea he had come up with during the writing of the OT.

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Alright. What's the point of that point?

Kitbashed
Essays, videos and thoughts on the inspiration behind Star Wars.

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To show that Georgey didn't have it all planned out from the beginning like he claims?

Of course, I'm sure everyone who frequents these forums is well aware of that by now, so ... *shrug*

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Never hurts to ram the idea into people's heads some more. ;)

In all seriousness, it is interesting to see Lucas thinking (even vaguely) at this stage about just where Anakin came from. As I pointed out above, one has to wonder why, if Anakin's father was a Jedi, it took Obi-Wan's intervention to get Anakin to join up.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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ATMachine said:

Never hurts to ram the idea into people's heads some more. ;)

I disagree. I'm not trying to poop on anyone's cereal, this is the internet, so believe me when I'm not trying to be all shouty and mean. But by this point, it's pretty obvious that every single detail wasn't laid out in The Journal of the Whills in 1975. If anything, Rinzler's work with The Making Of books has shined a great big light on the process of making the movies, including the creation of the stories themselves.

No, he didn't write all nine movies in 1975, but he *did* lay out a *lot* of details including an overarching story that he has remained true to. When you go back into the Making of books in particular, it's noteworthy just how many of the then abandoned concepts that Lucas went back to and put into the prequels.

So Lucas mythologized his creation of the Star Wars story, so what? For how long does he have to have his nose rubbed in that? After all, wasn't that part of the magic back in the day, dreaming of all twelve, nine or six movies? Of course it was. Half of the joy of Star Wars was Lucas and Lucasfilm and the mythology of those companies and Lucas as a person.

Remember that Lucas himself signed off on these books. They're not some kind of 'exposé'; they're the official story of the making of, approved by Lucas, published by LucasBooks.

This is the official story.

<3

Kitbashed
Essays, videos and thoughts on the inspiration behind Star Wars.

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Heilemann said:

it's noteworthy just how many of the then abandoned concepts that Lucas went back to and put into the prequels.

Haha, it could be that Lucas essentially made the prequels by combining all the crap and bad ideas that was deemed bad and discarded during OT.

真実

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Heilemann said:

ATMachine said:

Never hurts to ram the idea into people's heads some more. ;)

I disagree. I'm not trying to poop on anyone's cereal, this is the internet, so believe me when I'm not trying to be all shouty and mean. But by this point, it's pretty obvious that every single detail wasn't laid out in The Journal of the Whills in 1975. If anything, Rinzler's work with The Making Of books has shined a great big light on the process of making the movies, including the creation of the stories themselves.

No, he didn't write all nine movies in 1975, but he *did* lay out a *lot* of details including an overarching story that he has remained true to. When you go back into the Making of books in particular, it's noteworthy just how many of the then abandoned concepts that Lucas went back to and put into the prequels.

So Lucas mythologized his creation of the Star Wars story, so what? For how long does he have to have his nose rubbed in that? After all, wasn't that part of the magic back in the day, dreaming of all twelve, nine or six movies? Of course it was. Half of the joy of Star Wars was Lucas and Lucasfilm and the mythology of those companies and Lucas as a person.

Remember that Lucas himself signed off on these books. They're not some kind of 'exposé'; they're the official story of the making of, approved by Lucas, published by LucasBooks.

This is the official story.

<3

What drove some of us old fans crazy, was Lucas claiming in recent years he was misquoted on the nine episode saga and other things, when the source of those quotes was an officially sanctioned paperback book.

Nobody would have thought less of him for admitting he changed his mind. It's part of the creative process. Even Kubrick made up some things as he went along. :)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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yeah 'the tragedy of darth vader' is a bunch of fink.

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timdiggerm said:

Heilemann said:

So Lucas mythologized his creation of the Star Wars story, so what? For how long does he have to have his nose rubbed in that?

On this board? Probably forever. sigh

Yeah, I'm afraid so too.

Look, we've all read Secret History (and if you haven't... why not?). Let's stop pretending that any of this 'Lucas saying one thing and then turning around later and saying something else' being news at this point. 

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread.

Kitbashed
Essays, videos and thoughts on the inspiration behind Star Wars.

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Something that bothered me in Jedi was when Obi-wan knew that Leia was Luke's sister, while apparently forgetting this fact in Empire. The book discusses the "other" on page 70. Kasdan suggests that Ben doesn't know about Luke's sister, but Lucas says that he does indeed, it's just that "He discounts women because he is a male chauvinist pig." I'm guessing that he is kind of joking, and he further explains this inconsistency by saying that Ben wasn't thinking. I explained this inconsistency by considering that the Jedi was a very patriarchal order, and the Jedi didn't consider that women could be Jedi (kind of like some other religious orders today). But looking at the prequels, and the fact that there are women who are Jedi, it seems completely absurd that Ben didn't set up any plan to train Leia, and didn't try to train Luke until he was nineteen.

Lucas's idea of the Jedi in ROTJ was much different than in the prequels, and I think much more interesting. I get the feeling that there was a warrior class and a priest or guru class, and only the warriors were called Jedi. These were doctrinally male, and to become Jedi they were trained by the gurus or priests in the ways of the Force, inheriting lightsabers from their fathers. The knowledge to construct lightsabers was lost long ago, so there's an ever dwindling number of them, and they are rare and highly prized possessions. I really wish Lucas had stuck with this idea through the prequels.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
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I never even really cared if there was a saga plan or not or if he lied about it or whatever, and yet it would always devolve into that at TFN. Because that notion of a master plan would always get trotted out as a justification (from the fan side and the official LFL side) for labeling the original versions of the movies as rough cuts/work prints/temporary and thus not worthy of preservation or restoration. 

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Does the book shed light on when the sister angle was actually decided upon? From Star Wars to Jedi:The Making of a Saga suggests they made it up on the set as they were shooting the duel, to give Luke the needed motivation to go nuts on Vader.

Of course, this is the one vintage documentary that gets left off the Blu Ray to make room for all those parodies. ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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It does shed light on it, although I forget the details just now. It didn't happen on the set, however it does highlight that there was a specific change in the inflection of how Vader used the word, to taunt Luke.

In fact, there is a running gag of people who accidentally find out that Leia is Luke's sister, even though it was supposed to be kept under tight wraps. One is Anthony Daniels having fallen asleep behind a log, and when he wakes up he hears them talk about it, thinking "Crap, I shouldn't have heard that. I'm just going to pretend to be asleep", as well as someone walking into a post-production screening of the film seeing the revelation. Lucas sat him down and promised her that if she in any way, shape or form revealed this to anyone, he would kill her. :D

Kitbashed
Essays, videos and thoughts on the inspiration behind Star Wars.

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Lucas said on camera in the doc he had written something really vague in the script, essentially "Vader says something that provokes Luke", because he hadn't figured it out yet. Is it any wonder the details get muddled over time?

I recall the Daniels story from an old Starlog interview. ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Well I think what they probably figured out on set was simply *what* it was. I think that bit is actually in the book now that you mention it. But they already knew she was the sister. After all there were two other scenes centered on it.

Kitbashed
Essays, videos and thoughts on the inspiration behind Star Wars.

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Does the book say if the duel was shot before the scene with Luke and Leia in the Ewok village, or the big revelation with Ben? I'd guess those last two were shot with as little crew as possible. Less potential loose lips.

IIRC, all the Endor locations in Northern California were the last scenes shot, so obviously they had it figured out by then.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Leia being the sister is established in the writing phase but doesn't figure into Luke's motivation during the duel until they are shooting.