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Making of Return of the Jedi (the book) Thread — Page 7

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Part of the squick here, I think, is that in the old Flash Gordon comics, even though Ming the Merciless (or King Vultan of the Hawkmen, or whoever) frequently had Dale Arden dressed up in a harem outfit, you could always be absolutely sure that the villain would wait until after a proper marriage ceremony to "take advantage" of the heroine. But this ceremony would of course never actually come to pass, due to it being foiled by Flash and friends.

Kasdan's Jabba, on the other hand, is a creature of our modern world, where chivalry is dead. He doesn't belong to the knights-and-spaceships, capes-and-rayguns archetypes created by Edgar Rice Burroughs before WWI and continued by Alex Raymond. In the latter type of story, we can enjoy the heroine being forced into skimpy outfits (or, as with Dejah Thoris, casually gallivanting around wearing nothing at all) and still not fear for her safety; in the former that is impossible.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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On another note, a quote in the book from Richard Marquand suggests that part of Harrison Ford's motivation for wanting to kill off Han Solo was so that Leia and Luke could get together romantically. By that time Marquand knew that Lucas wanted Luke and Leia to be revealed as siblings, but he wasn't allowed to tell Ford that yet!

The idea of Han dying and Luke and Leia becoming an item is intriguing. It harks back to Lucas's older ideas for the future of the OT, during production on ANH, when he imagined Han leaving at the end of the second film and Luke and the Princess getting together:

I want to have Luke kiss the princess in the second book. The second book will be Gone With the Wind in Outer Space. She likes Luke, but Han is Clark Gable. Well, she may appear to get Luke, because in the end I want Han to leave. Han splits at the end of the second book and we learn who Darth Vader is...

In the third book, I want the story to be just about the soap opera of the Skywalker family, which ends with the destruction of the Empire.

By the time of ESB, of course, Lucas imagined that Han and the Princess would be the ones to hook up in the end. This was decided early enough that Lucas told Leigh Brackett that's what would happen. At the end of the Brackett draft Han still leaves--to convince his powerful stepfather Ovan Marekal to join the Alliance--but he plans to come back to Leia.

However, if you combine Han's death (and perhaps Luke winning Leia's hand) with Kasdan's idea of Luke taking over the Empire and becoming a benevolent monarch.... well, you can start to see where some of the Gary Kurtz rumors come from.

Of course, it shouldn't be forgotten that the very first rough draft for ANH--the one simply titled The Star Wars, now being adapted by Dark Horse--ended exactly this way, with the new Queen Leia and her consort Annikin Starkiller (the "Lord Protector") appearing gloriously enthroned in the royal palace of Aquilae.

(Mark Hamill was also interested in getting Luke hooked up. He gave Lucas a book full of drawings of alien creatures, with a handwritten inscription asking him to pick out a girlfriend for Luke from among the various aliens. It didn't work.)

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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There's a lot of seedy darker stuff beneath the surface. As a kid, I didn't stop to think what "spice" was, and why Han was in so much trouble for dumping a shipment to avoid being caught, but it's pretty obvious it's drugs of some kind.

Watching Jedi as an adult, it really seems to me Jabba is stoned out of his mind most of the time, as are most of his minions. (That doesn't make them any less of a threat though.) The palace throne room has elements of an opium den to it, not to mention it's suited for other sordid goings on.

Even the Ewoks have a dark element that's underplayed. They were going to cook everyone to appease their new golden god! A pile of discarded Biker scout armor in a corner would have been funny and dark, but Lucas didn't want to go there.

As Carrie has said the metal bikini was George's idea, what else came straight out of his twisted mind? ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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in defense of the pt, anakins seduction by palpatine has some seedy gay undertones, as well as anakin loving his mother a little 'too' much.

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Ancient mythology is chock full of that sort of thing. And George isn't shy about borrowing.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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In addition to the wonderfully enlightening text which I've referenced above, the concept art in the Making of ROTJ is also quite good and mostly never before seen.

One standout is the designs for Jabba the Hutt. While Phil Tippett's rather cartoonish design (from a maquette) was ultimately selected, Ralph McQuarrie surely gets the nod for the most terrifying Jabba concepts. One of his pieces features a wormlike Jabba with a maw full of slimy tentacles reminiscent of Cthulhu; another has a more humanoid Jabba, but with immense revolting folds of naked, sagging flesh, protruding eyes set farther apart than in a human face, and a mouth full of razor-sharp fangs.

There's also a piece of Slave Leia concept art by Nilo Rodis-Jamero that I've never seen before: the precursor of the final costume design, but with the top specified as made out of leather instead of metal, and Leia going barefoot. (Still better than one of Rodis-Jamero's earlier ideas for the costume, featured on the Blu-rays, which included a transparent mesh fabric top, drawn complete with visible nipples.... a wardrobe later given in modified form to Oola after apparently being deemed too risqué for the leading lady.)

McQuarrie's art for the Imperial Guards is also very interesting; he favored robing them in black and making their helmet shape resemble Vader's. It would seem Rodis-Jamero in his final design opted for red because, having been raised as a Catholic, he found it amusing to put the Emperor's minions in outfits resembling liturgical vestments. The Royal Guards outfitted in solid red, for instance, call to mind the scarlet robes of cardinals.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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vacuum said:


in defense of the pt, anakins seduction by palpatine has some seedy gay undertones, as well as anakin loving his mother a little 'too' much.


Palpatine is Baron Harkonnen? I don't know how to feel about that ...

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SilverWook 

I'm amazed we're getting such an unvarnished look at what must have been a more tumultuous production than even ESB was.

I wonder if some of it is because Lucas doesn't run the Star Wars universe anymore. These people may feel less intimidated, or even a little vengeful at what a dick he was. 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Listen, it don’t really matter to me, baby.
You believe what you want to believe.

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SilverWook said:

As Carrie has said the metal bikini was George's idea, what else came straight out of his twisted mind? ;)

It's talked about in this recent interview with Rinzler on his new book:

http://www.fandango.com/movieblog/interview-celebrating-30-years-of-return-of-jedi-with-lucasfilm-insider-742402.html 

“In a way Marquand should get the lion's share credit for that, because it was his idea. I think he saw [Carrie Fisher] in Empire and thought ‘Boy, they're not really showing her figure at all,’ and sort of went the opposite extreme. [The concept artists and costume designers] were inspired by Frank Frazetta art and came up with this amazing slave girl costume, which hit a chord.”

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Mind blown!

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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TOSCHESTATION on the TFN forums pointed out that early on in the book, Rinzler digs up a snippet of plot notes by Lucas which appear to be "pre-Empire":

"The Emperor is the evil one - he kills Luke's father. Vader begs Luke to kill him - he does."

These notes would appear to come from the liminal stage between ANH and ESB, when Lucas was reconsidering both the backstory of Father Skywalker and the notion that Vader was a dyed-in-the-wool irredeemable villain. But the obvious solution--to combine the two ideas into Father Vader--hadn't quite gelled yet.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Anchorhead said:

SilverWook 

I'm amazed we're getting such an unvarnished look at what must have been a more tumultuous production than even ESB was.

I wonder if some of it is because Lucas doesn't run the Star Wars universe anymore. These people may feel less intimidated, or even a little vengeful at what a dick he was. 

....or maybe because it's 30 years later.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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ATMachine said:


TOSCHESTATION on the TFN forums pointed out that early on in the book, Rinzler digs up a snippet of plot notes by Lucas which appear to be "pre-Empire":

"The Emperor is the evil one - he kills Luke's father. Vader begs Luke to kill him - he does."

These notes would appear to come from the liminal stage between ANH and ESB, when Lucas was reconsidering both the backstory of Father Skywalker and the notion that Vader was a dyed-in-the-wool irredeemable villain. But the obvious solution--to combine the two ideas into Father Vader--hadn't quite gelled yet.


Hmm ... interesting. IMO, this only makes Georgey's failure to create complex villains for the PT all the more pathetic.

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So, did anybody get that enhance digital version of the book? What exactly is it now?

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Laserschwert said:

So, did anybody get that enhance digital version of the book? What exactly is it now?

I'm sooooo glad that I'm not the only one caring about it

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Laserschwert said:

So, did anybody get that enhance digital version of the book? What exactly is it now?

To my information it is released later than the printed version.

真実

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Laserschwert said:


So, did anybody get that enhance digital version of the book? What exactly is it now?


October 22nd.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

 

ATMachine said:


TOSCHESTATION on the TFN forums pointed out that early on in the book, Rinzler digs up a snippet of plot notes by Lucas which appear to be "pre-Empire":

"The Emperor is the evil one - he kills Luke's father. Vader begs Luke to kill him - he does."

These notes would appear to come from the liminal stage between ANH and ESB, when Lucas was reconsidering both the backstory of Father Skywalker and the notion that Vader was a dyed-in-the-wool irredeemable villain. But the obvious solution--to combine the two ideas into Father Vader--hadn't quite gelled yet.


Hmm ... interesting. IMO, this only makes Georgey's failure to create complex villains for the PT all the more pathetic.

 

Eh, what!?

Kitbashed
Essays, videos and thoughts on the inspiration behind Star Wars.

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I was in a talk that Rinzler did on Saturday in London Film and Comic Con. He mentioned the digital  files will be about half and hour long for each book. Video and audio files. He said audio files sound boring but for example there is Alec Guinness practicing how to say "May the force be with you".

It was mentioned about the Indiana Jones book being so small and should have had a book for each film. The powers  that be did not think it would sell well as four books so he had to put the lot into one book. He hopes at one time in the future to release an Art Of Indiana Jones book.

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I know I repeat myself but does anybody know what exactly does digital release mean?

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Heilemann said:



DuracellEnergizer said:

 


ATMachine said:

TOSCHESTATION on the TFN forums pointed out that early on in the book, Rinzler digs up a snippet of plot notes by Lucas which appear to be "pre-Empire":

"The Emperor is the evil one - he kills Luke's father. Vader begs Luke to kill him - he does."

These notes would appear to come from the liminal stage between ANH and ESB, when Lucas was reconsidering both the backstory of Father Skywalker and the notion that Vader was a dyed-in-the-wool irredeemable villain. But the obvious solution--to combine the two ideas into Father Vader--hadn't quite gelled yet.



Hmm ... interesting. IMO, this only makes Georgey's failure to create complex villains for the PT all the more pathetic.

 


Eh, what!?


For awhile now, I've been operating under the assumption that Lucas' transformation of Vader from a two-dimensional villain to a complex character with redeemable qualities was a pure accident - that under normal circumstances - and with no one around to reign him in - he's only capable of creating flat, stereotypically evil villains like those in the PT.

Seeing evidence that Lucas actually had the foresight to start Vader down upon a path of three-dimensionality, though, before the whole Vader = Father Skywalker development, turns that all around; it shows that there was a point in time when he actually cared about adding depth to his villains, but has long since chosen to go down the quick and easy path, and that is just plain sad.

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pittrek said:

I know I repeat myself but does anybody know what exactly does digital release mean?

It's a download you buy, like buying an itunes song, and read on your ipad or other tablet. It has the text and pictures from the actual book plus video and audio clips you can click on.

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ATMachine said:

JABBA

(to Leia, in Huttese)

I have seen you like to kiss. I like the way you kiss.

(he grins)

And I like to kiss, also!

Leia looks at Threepio, questioningly.

THREEPIO

You're not going to like it, Your Highness.

LEIA

Death?

THREEPIO

Worse.

Jabba speaks to the Guards holding Leia and they bring her toward him. Inexorably, her tiny face crosses the distance to his immense blob of a head. Jabba puckers up. Leia looks sick.

Am I the only one who feels like that sounds like a bit of PT dialogue between Anakin and Padme? "I don't like sand, but I like to kiss!"

 

On the finale of RoTJ, they should have had the Rebels capture the Death Star and crash it into Had Abbadon. Maybe have Luke vs. Vader vs. Palpatine on the Death Star as it is now, only have the battle take place in the control room of the station in front of the crew, and upon Luke and Vader emerging victorious, one of them commands the crew of the station, stunned and having no reason to attack Luke with the death of their master, to set it on a collision course with the throne world of the Empire and abandon the station. You could have them give a speech about how the heart of evil must be destroyed and blah blah blah.

Then you get your single massive explosion, and you could play up either Vader's redemption (if you make him give the command to crash the Death Star and destroy everything he fought for and helped to build as a Sith), or Luke becoming the new "benevolent Emperor" giving his first and last order as Emperor to destroy the station and the heart of evil (if he gives the order, it makes it a metaphor for him having absolute power [The Dark Side] within his grasp and casting it aside for peace and justice [The Light Side]).

Obviously that's a pretty rough idea, but you get the picture.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Baronlando said:


and read on your ipad or other tablet

Has the "other tablet" part been confirmed anywhere?

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It'll be out for kindle, so yes. 

Kitbashed
Essays, videos and thoughts on the inspiration behind Star Wars.