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MOVED THREAD
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But that doesn't mean he wasn't right. When your solution to a visual depiction of your prophet results in taking 130 innocent people hostage, clearly your religion is fucked up. When your solution to national independence for your muslim state is to shoot up a school full of children, clearly your religion is fucked up. And when your solution to eradicating the influence of western culture in your geographical area is to sucker-punch 3000 innocent civilians (with the hope of ten times that number) who are just trying to get through their day, clearly your religion is fucked up.
Personally, I've known many muslims over the years. They were all good people in my judgment. But I never heard one of them actually denounce terrorism. Until more muslims start speaking out against the violent extremism with a loud enough microphone that they're heard all the way to Mecca, then they are just being part of the problem and not the solution. When the same kind of violent terror was tearing apart Ireland, at least the Irish people were bold enough to do something about it. And at least the Irish leaders were willing to compromise with the British. We aren't seeing the same thing in the Middle East.
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I understand what the Pope said. He meant it towards the crazy radicals that blow each other up, which is evil and twisted.
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There was a great quote on Studio 60 the other night that's somewhat germane to the conversation. "Living where there's free speech means sometimes you get offended." Brilliant writing. I'm glad Aaron Sorkin is back on TV doing what he does best ... writing good stuff like that.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
And he shouldn't have to apologize for it.
There was a great quote on Studio 60 the other night that's somewhat germane to the conversation. "Living where there's free speech means sometimes you get offended." Brilliant writing. I'm glad Aaron Sorkin is back on TV doing what he does best ... writing good stuff like that.
And he shouldn't have to apologize for it.
There was a great quote on Studio 60 the other night that's somewhat germane to the conversation. "Living where there's free speech means sometimes you get offended." Brilliant writing. I'm glad Aaron Sorkin is back on TV doing what he does best ... writing good stuff like that.
Haven't seen the show yet, but it looks good and a good point. Like the line in an original Star Trek episode when discussing freedoms "They must apply to everyone, or they mean nothing". Free speech is a not just a two-way street, it's a mega-highway.
http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
And he shouldn't have to apologize for it.
There was a great quote on Studio 60 the other night that's somewhat germane to the conversation. "Living where there's free speech means sometimes you get offended." Brilliant writing. I'm glad Aaron Sorkin is back on TV doing what he does best ... writing good stuff like that.
And he shouldn't have to apologize for it.
There was a great quote on Studio 60 the other night that's somewhat germane to the conversation. "Living where there's free speech means sometimes you get offended." Brilliant writing. I'm glad Aaron Sorkin is back on TV doing what he does best ... writing good stuff like that.
Thats a great quote.
Plus no one can mess with the Pope
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My history teacher said the funniest thing. He said Muslism is the religion of peace but if your bad mouth them they will kill you. hahahahhaha
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clearly your religion is fucked up
Aren't they all?
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Originally posted by: Darth Richard
Thats a great quote.
Plus no one can mess with the Pope
Thats a great quote.
Plus no one can mess with the Pope
You mean this one?
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Personally, even though the comments he made may not be entirely inaccurate they are clearly very foolish ones to make in the context of the current political situation, especially considering he is the head of the largest religious organization in the world. Leaders with followers of this magnitude are expected to behave a bit better than some obscure idiot Muslim preacher, or by the same token some obscure idiot Christian preacher (Pat Robertson immediately comes to mind as an irrational christian biggot who encourages and incites violence and hatred). Like I said--becoming a public religious figure and being a moron are practically mutually exclusive. What I can't figure out is why people put so much stock into what these people have to say.
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Calling this or that religion "fucked up" based on the actions of that religion's adherents (or more significantly, professed adherents) is a very dangerous thing. If this is so, then every religion is "fucked up", because I am certain that someone, somewhere, at some point in history, has perpertrated utterly heinous crimes against their fellow man in the name of every religion on the face of the planet. How many people in America profess to be Christians? Now, how many of those people actually attend church regularly, pray, or even read their Bible, let alone live by it? I would estimate perhaps 10%, but it's not really something you can quantify. All I am saying is that a lot of people profess to follow this or that religion, but it is another matter entirely as to whether they faithfully follow the tenets/morals/practices of that belief system. The religions of the world have brought some glorious ideas to our attention throughout history, and to judge any of these religions by the people trying (or more especially, not trying) to live by them, rather than the ideals themselves, do not do these ideas/religions justice.
In a nutshell, what I am saying is that each religion should be judged on its own merits, not on the merits (or lack thereof) of its followers. Human beings can never do justice to an ideal.
http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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I was baptized as a catholic but I'm an agnostic. I don't care about any specific dogma anymore, and I only follow some simples rules: Never to kill or steal, respect everyone the same way I'd like to be respected - and that includes people different than me - treat everyone the way I'd like to be treated, never to cheat on my girlfriend or wife, never pay for sex and never smoke.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
never to cheat on my girlfriend or wife
never to cheat on my girlfriend or wife
Which one aren't you cheating on?
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Originally posted by: zombie84
and in the Jesus Seminars, conducted in the late 1990's, New Testament scholars
Which scholars?and in the Jesus Seminars, conducted in the late 1990's, New Testament scholars
http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by: JediSage
Originally posted by: zombie84
and in the Jesus Seminars, conducted in the late 1990's, New Testament scholars
Which scholars? and in the Jesus Seminars, conducted in the late 1990's, New Testament scholars
All of them i suppose. It was a conference conducted in 1999 I believe between the top 200 New Testament scholars, and I believe took place in the United States; this body of scholars itself was founded in 1985 by Robert Funk.
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
What do you think about what the pope said the other day? I think if Islam wants people to stop thinking that there violent they should stop having violent protests.
What do you think about what the pope said the other day? I think if Islam wants people to stop thinking that there violent they should stop having violent protests.
Actually, the Pope was quoting a medieval-era Byzantine Emperor, in a speech about the problems with wars in the name of relgion.
It is sort of ironic that some people in the middle east are burning down Christian churches, vandalizing others, go out and storm the houses of the local christian population and beat them up, and someone killed a nun in Somalia, all because they are mad that the pope quoted someone centuries before said their religion is violent.
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"We're not violent! How dare you call us violent! Just for that, feel our wrath as we behead this nun.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
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Originally posted by: C3PX
Oh so ironic.
"We're not violent! How dare you call us violent! Just for that, feel our wrath as we behead this nun.
Oh so ironic.
"We're not violent! How dare you call us violent! Just for that, feel our wrath as we behead this nun.
hahaha, but the sad thing is that it is so true
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Its also ironic that the very arguments that the Pope offered--namely that Muhammad offered no new or unique message--are the very same criticisms that were levelled at Christians by the pagans in the early second and third centuries CE; Christianity was seen as a synthesis of all the pagan Mystery Cults, a sort of "best of collection" that borrowed things from everything from Jove to Mithra to Osiris, and in fact that there is even an amusing early church father exchange between a preacher from the Jove cult where the church father defends the animosity developing between the two competing sects by explaining "we propound nothing different from those you esteem Sons of Jove." Pretty much all the sayings attributed to religious figures were not actually spoken by that person, if we are even to believe that said person actually existed--most of the sayings attributed to Buddha and Confuscious have been realised to be generic wisdom sayings that were existing in the culture long before attached to those figures, and in the Jesus Seminars, conducted in the late 1990's, New Testament scholars came to the shocking realisation that nearly every quote attributed to Jesus in the Bible--the beatitudes, the turn-the-other-cheek, the sermon on the mount--were not authentic but merely wisdom sayings that were "in the air" and were later attached to the figure of Christ. Saying any religion is unique is completely ignorant because anyone who actually has researched into history and science inevitably comes to the conclusion that its all bullshit. But then i wouldn't expect such feats of knowledge from Popes and Imams--best thing to do is probably let them kill each other; only problem is that they fight by proxy through their innocent followers.
Its also ironic that the very arguments that the Pope offered--namely that Muhammad offered no new or unique message--are the very same criticisms that were levelled at Christians by the pagans in the early second and third centuries CE; Christianity was seen as a synthesis of all the pagan Mystery Cults, a sort of "best of collection" that borrowed things from everything from Jove to Mithra to Osiris, and in fact that there is even an amusing early church father exchange between a preacher from the Jove cult where the church father defends the animosity developing between the two competing sects by explaining "we propound nothing different from those you esteem Sons of Jove." Pretty much all the sayings attributed to religious figures were not actually spoken by that person, if we are even to believe that said person actually existed--most of the sayings attributed to Buddha and Confuscious have been realised to be generic wisdom sayings that were existing in the culture long before attached to those figures, and in the Jesus Seminars, conducted in the late 1990's, New Testament scholars came to the shocking realisation that nearly every quote attributed to Jesus in the Bible--the beatitudes, the turn-the-other-cheek, the sermon on the mount--were not authentic but merely wisdom sayings that were "in the air" and were later attached to the figure of Christ. Saying any religion is unique is completely ignorant because anyone who actually has researched into history and science inevitably comes to the conclusion that its all bullshit. But then i wouldn't expect such feats of knowledge from Popes and Imams--best thing to do is probably let them kill each other; only problem is that they fight by proxy through their innocent followers.
Zombie, I think you're an alright kind of fella, but here you are pretty much forcing atheism down our throats. You're practically talking down to all non-atheists without any real evidence to back up your claims. If all religions are unequivocally bullshit and it can be proven conclusively, then how is it that we are even discussing religion in this very thread? I'm not saying that the burden of proof lies with the atheists when it comes to the existence of God, but if you claim that all religion is bullshit, then the burden of proof lies with you, and that requires more than just generalities and hearsay.
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