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Luke's ROTS Review (plot holes included) — Page 2

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
I've seen it again on saturday with my brother - which was cool because I didn't go out with him in years - and my previous analysis is kept. Good film, and best of the prequels, but NOT as good as any of the OTs.

Two things bugged me on the second view:

1- When Obi-wan is looking at the security holograms, he mentions Palpatine as the "Emperor". How did he know?


Because EVERYONE in the PT seems to know EVERYTHING about everyone else at one point or another. This is called bad continuity and is usually the job of the script supervisor to watch out for- but I imagine that GL didn't allow much input into that.

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Especially considering how Lucas throws the script out the window and jumbles everything up in the editing room anyway.

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Originally posted by: ricarleite2- Anakin didn't look like he really needed the breathing apparatus his suit provides. He was screaming and all... I think Anakin should've been even more deformed/destroyed, unconscious and unable to breath for his own.


That's a good point. It should have shown Anakin struggling to breathe up until the mask was put on. It didn't convey that much though. I think that would have given a lot more emotion for me. Well, that and the removal of the "NOOOOO!!!" heard round the world.
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Um...

I don't think I've ever been in a movie where people booed or cheered after a movie was over. Everybody just gets up and leaves. I guess down south we dont' cheer for a person when they can't hear it.

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Couple of things:

Want to make sure that everyone knows that the security hologram WAS not from the office, but rather in the Jedi Temple. If you rewatch it, you will see it is a different exchange.

Yes, that is probably a continuity error with the Emperor line, as Obi Wan calls him the Chancellor during the rest of the film.

Burn victims have difficulty breathing on their own, but can do so without the appareatus. It's difficult and they couldn't get through every day life, but they can make it. Also, that room could have very much been like an iron lung, as was Vader's little pod on the Executor. We don't know.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Um...

I don't think I've ever been in a movie where people booed or cheered after a movie was over. Everybody just gets up and leaves. I guess down south we dont' cheer for a person when they can't hear it.


I noticed the same thing in every other showing I went to after the midnight showing, everyone was just had a blank look on their face and walked out.

But the midnight showing was great, there is nothing like watching a premiering movie, the mood was just so electric and exciting. Everyone clapped and cheered and laughed and cried at all the right times. There was even a standing ovation at the end. quite the opposite of the other showings.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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"I don't think I've ever been in a movie where people booed or cheered after a movie was over. Everybody just gets up and leaves. I guess down south we dont' cheer for a person when they can't hear it."

Do you do it when watching sports on tv?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"I don't think I've ever been in a movie where people booed or cheered after a movie was over. Everybody just gets up and leaves. I guess down south we dont' cheer for a person when they can't hear it."

Do you do it when watching sports on tv?


That is a trademark of the south, although I don't partake in it.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Um...

I don't think I've ever been in a movie where people booed or cheered after a movie was over. Everybody just gets up and leaves. I guess down south we dont' cheer for a person when they can't hear it.


I've seen applause, booing or cheering in theaters only in premiere midnight SW sessions, mostly because these are fans who are there to make noise and have fun and stuff. I've seen people booing trailers, but otherwise I've never seen it happen either. There's no point, there's no one there, it's not a theatrical experience, the actors are not there...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: TheSessler
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"I don't think I've ever been in a movie where people booed or cheered after a movie was over. Everybody just gets up and leaves. I guess down south we dont' cheer for a person when they can't hear it."

Do you do it when watching sports on tv?


That is a trademark of the south, although I don't partake in it.


Sports is one thing, man, but in a movie theatre where people you're not related to/friends with will hear you? No way!

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Concerning Leia's memories of "her mother" in ROTJ......

I have never once assumed what she describes as being the memory of her "birth mother" but that of her adopted mother

"she died when i was young. she was very beautiful and kind but also sad" - I always assumed this was in reference to Mrs Organa....

Luke counters this with "I have no memory of my mother"...again I just assumed this was to reinforce to the audience that he had grown up believing he was an orphan.... but then they're just my thoughts & opinions & no doubt will get shot down in flames...

As for Vaders "Noooooooo" I too hated this the first time I saw it....but then as I've said elsewhere on the forum I've never wanted to see Anakin turning into Vader or anything connecting him to Vader...as we knew this would happen I gave up stating my case & just tried to prepare myself for that scene.....however......


I saw the film a second time on Saturday....I needed too, i didn't really enjoy my first viewing - I spent the entire time searching the screen for "eye candy" & being overwhelmed by the visual fx......

I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the movie a second time round...gone was my sullied expectations, I was free to immerse myself in the movie & let it run with me....I found myself welling up during the execution of the Jedi & fully understanding Anakin's betrayal of the Jedi & lure to the Dark Side......I've read a few comments complaining that his turn was too quick....Um wasn't the WHOLE trilogy meant to be about Anakin's downfall? For me his journey to the Dark Side began with the slaughter of the Tuskens...that was the moment Anakin died IMO..the rest was just a sequence of events predetermined & waiting to fall into place....

Ok i can understand how some people might feel it was rushed...but he has just attacked Mace Windu, he has just caused his death, he has just betrayed the Jedi Order.....some might say he has left himself little choice......& all for his love & desire for Padme, fuelled by his obsession with loss.....

The end result being........giving everything up so he can save the one he loves & ultimately being the cause of her death..tragic irony!
Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
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"Sports is one thing, man, but in a movie theatre where people you're not related to/friends with will hear you? No way! "

Point being, you are just as guilty of doing it, just under different circumstances.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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"Anakin, Palpatine is EVIL!"
"Well duh..."

That's my favorite quote from Ep. 3, "Palpatine is EVIL!", it's almost funny, and Ewan said it in a weird way... Like dooku's "Master Obi-Wan, you disapoint me!", young anakin's "Are you an angel? AN ANGEL!", luke's "pick up some power converters"
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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"Palpatine is evil" is stupid but i can accept it.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Originally posted by: die-jarjar-die
Concerning Leia's memories of "her mother" in ROTJ......

I have never once assumed what she describes as being the memory of her "birth mother" but that of her adopted mother

"she died when i was young. she was very beautiful and kind but also sad" - I always assumed this was in reference to Mrs Organa....


Luke does say "Do you remember your Mother? Your real Mother"



http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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he does? blimey....well it's been a while since i've watched them & i was only 9 when ROTJ came out

hmmm...ok i'll get me thinking cap on....

perhaps it is just meant to be Padme hugging Leia for a few seconds.....
Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
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maybe its because they didnt have umbilical cords and came out so darn clean for newborns

actually, that really has nothing to do with leia's memory of her mom, i was just throwing that out there.

however, while I hesitantly except the Force connection view coupled with a Mother/Daughter connection thing going on, never was it even hinted that Padme was connected to the force, so since she only lived all of 5 minutes (if that) after giving birth to Leia, what causes the connection/memories. For Luke's connection with his dad, his dad is still alive, and he didnt notice it until after being told Vader was his father. So unless leia had some contact with her mom whats causing it, because like i said, it wasnt the umbilical cord...well that and the comment is phrased in such a way that it seems Padme survived for at least a few months after giving birth.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Well, Luke is never in contact with Vader except moments before it is revealed to him. Also, the line "I felt a tremor in the Force, one I haven't felt since I was last in the presence of my old Master" has taken on a different meaning for me. Not that Obi Wan is the tremor, but the twins in the same place again being the tremor.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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hmm, yeah ive thought about the tremor being luke and vader just not realizing it. And Luke was in close proximity to vader before that (he wasnt that far away on the death star, and vader was right behind him on the trench run, but Luke's lack of experience (in the force) could be attributed to that, because Vader did sense how strong the force was after Kenobi spoke to Luke (also can assume vader didnt really know about this speaking from beyond thing)

still doesnt address the twins not having an umbilical cord though

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: Darth Simon

still doesnt address the twins not having an umbilical cord though

-Darth Simon


OR the fact that the twins looked to be about 2 months old AND the fact that Padme looked about 4 months pregnant through most of the film.

[edit]WAITAMINUTE!!! Padme and Anakin never did SAY they did the Jedi-nasty. All she said was that she hadn't seen him in 5 months when he got back from rescuing Palps. So... maybe... all those clues add up to...

THE TWINS WERE CREATED FROM MIDI-CHLORIANS!!!! Maybe Palps, while the Jedi were out, used Sith-mojo and midi-knocked-up Padme!! That's it!!!!!!!!
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well the Padme @ 4 months pregnant could just be how it shows on her. Not all woman blow up like a balloon when they are pregnant, some remain relativly thing and you dont necessarily notice they are pregnant, while others looke like their are carrying quadruplets when in reality its only 1 baby of 'normal' size (ie not a big baby)

but ill give you the 2 month old thing...maybe thats how he explains the death star thing, it was really only a few years, but those force sensative babies just grow up oooh so fast.

-Darth Simon

haha, i had to edit cause you edited while i was posting...its very possible...it would explain why Anakin really didnt seem to be too happy when Padme told him she was pregnant.

also, when did he say 5 months? i thought he just said it felt like a lifetime
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: Darth Simon

haha, i had to edit cause you edited while i was posting...its very possible...it would explain why Anakin really didnt seem to be too happy when Padme told him she was pregnant.

also, when did he say 5 months? i thought he just said it felt like a lifetime


Geez, I'm getting the script mixed up with the actual film! LOL. The timeframe of the film bothered me, so I rewatched the film and then re-read the script looking for clues. Anakin DOES say "it seems like a lifetime" but as the scene continues Padme was *supposed* to say the following:

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ANAKIN: I've given my life to the Jedi order, but I'd only give up my life, for you.

PADME: (playfully) I wouldn't like that. I wouldn't like that one bit. Patience, my handsome Jedi . . . Come to me later.

ANAKIN embraces her, then looks at her.

ANAKIN: Are you all right? You're trembling. What's going on?

PADME: I'm just excited to see you.

ANAKIN: That's not it. I sense more . . . what is it?

PADME: Nothing . . . nothing . . .

ANAKIN: You're frightened. (a little angry) Tell me what's going on!

PADME begins to cry.

PADME: You've been gone five months . . . it's been very hard for me. I've never felt so alone. There's . . .

ANAKIN: . . . Is there someone else?


Which of course is part of the whole 'Anakin thinks she's been unfaithful' subplot which got axed... though I wish they would have left it in- I think it would have helped.

The rest of the movie seriously takes place over a few days so she must be damn near due to give birth. It also strikes me funny that no one else seemed to notice she was preggers- even Obi-Wan until almost the last minute... must have been that Nabooian maternity wear!
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ahhh, i see.

speaking of the script, whats the part when Padme is talking to Anakin I think after he tells her the Jedi are corrupt. something like

Padme: Maybe Obi-Wan can help. he cares about us.

and i think Anakin resonds with something like 'Us?'

probably more stuff that fits quite nicely with the 'Affair' subplot.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Time
Yep, there were some good little moments which showed Anakin to be be increasingly jealous of her. There's also an exchange in which Palps 'suggests' to Anakin that Obi-Wan is having an affair with a member of the Senate and insinuates that it is Padme, of course knowing full well that Anakin is married to her. Considering some of GL's dialogue, there was some surprisingly subtle stuff in there.

Then again, we all know his theme for the PT was that love leads to the dark side.
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"Not that Obi Wan is the tremor, but the twins in the same place again being the tremor. "

Uhm, what?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>