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Looks like the prequels are not aging well. — Page 2

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If I may say so, I liked the SE pullback where you got to see a bit more of the city.  What I DIDN'T like was that they felt the need to add the high-larrious hijinks of the droid & the ronto.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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That more empty Mos Eisley may have been something Lucas was forced into by the realities of filmmaking, but it works better. It has atmosphere. Also, it fits with the feel of 70s films. The 97 Mos Eisley is just meaningless show, like so much in the prequels. Complete with silly comedy. If I want Jaws falling off of rontos I'll bloody well ask for it. 

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That more empty Mos Eisley may have been something Lucas was forced into by the realities of filmmaking, but it works better. It has atmosphere. Also, it fits with the feel of 70s films. The 97 Mos Eisley is just meaningless show, like so much in the prequels. Complete with silly comedy. If I want Jaws falling off of rontos I'll bloody well ask for it. 

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Goddamn right!!!

Grrr....

Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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S'okay... you're amongst friends here... ;)

Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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I have to disagree about Han. He stands behind Chewbacca as the boring character of the OT for me. I never found cynicism neccesary in a magical movie like Star Wars.

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Sometimes I wonder if Han couldn't have been used better for what he was.  He was supposed to be the anti-hero of the first movie, and he did a pretty good job of that, but, of course, he redeemed himself at the end of the movie by saving Luke.  Empire still had some of that.  His original motivation was to get back to that, but it never really worked out.  And, of course, in Return, they'd pretty much given up on his character moving at all.  So, really, both the sequels wasted that character (as in, there's very little ambiguity in Empire and absolutely no development in Return) as it was originally conceived.

(But I still like what they did do with him in Empire, don't get me wrong)

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I always thought it would have been an interesting twist in ROTJ to make Han a Jedi, or the offspring of a Jedi. Maybe he took on a new identity and became a smuggler to put his old life behind him.

I would've rather have seen Han be the one Yoda was referring to in ESB when he said "No, there is another."

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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DarkFather said:

I always thought it would have been an interesting twist in ROTJ to make Han a Jedi, or the offspring of a Jedi. Maybe he took on a new identity and became a smuggler to put his old life behind him.

 

 

Whoa, that is an M. Night Shamaladingdong quality twist right there!

Reminds me of an interview where Mark Hamill was talking about George's twists making every one a blood relation of Luke in some form or another, and said that he was half expecting there to be a scene were Boba Fett takes off his helmet and reveal herself to be Luke's mom.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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You could have just said you didn't like it. XD

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying it to dis your idea, I was just saying, that would have been quite a twist. It would have beaten the crap out of "I am your father" as far as shocking twists go.

Being on the subject of twists just reminded me of the Boba Fett thing.

 

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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rcb said:

ask the kids and younger people. they'll say different. i like them, but i admit that there are flaws in the PT.

How young is young?  I was 18 when TPM came out and I thought it sucked ass.

War does not make one great.

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One of my favorite moments in the OT is when the three have just escaped from the garbage masher, and Leia starts complaining about Han... at the beginning, Han totally ignores her - specifically, here is a princess trying to get Han's attention and give him an order and he doesn't even acknowledge her, he's too busy barking at Chewie, calling him a coward. I really think that scene is masterfully done and shows the degree to which Han doesn't give a rat's a** about someone's rank.

I also like the scene when he and Luke are in the cockpit talking about Leia.  Although Han expresses his interest, he seems to be doing it as much just to tease Luke.

By contrast, even in ESB Han's dialogue was a bit less carefully crafted.  Although it had moments of brilliance ("I love you" - "I know").

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I think at the time of ESB or in the development they were planning on like 2 more trilogies or at least another trilogy of sequels and that the other potential Jedi was probably just some unknown character. or maybe it was Snaggletooth

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Gaffer Tape said:

Sometimes I wonder if Han couldn't have been used better for what he was. He was supposed to be the anti-hero of the first movie, and he did a pretty good job of that, but, of course, he redeemed himself at the end of the movie by saving Luke. Empire still had some of that. His original motivation was to get back to that, but it never really worked out. And, of course, in Return, they'd pretty much given up on his character moving at all. So, really, both the sequels wasted that character (as in, there's very little ambiguity in Empire and absolutely no development in Return) as it was originally conceived.

(But I still like what they did do with him in Empire, don't get me wrong)


I totally agree about ROTJ!Han. Both Leia and his character pretty much came to a screeching halt in that film, and to me, he's one of the weakest parts of the film. Certainly one of the biggest disappointments. He went back to square one in ROTJ instead of further developing as a character. I can't help but wonder what it would've been like if they had actually killed Han off in the film, as Harrison Ford suggested. That would've been really dark but really interesting as well. Especially the havoc it would wreak on Luke and Leia as characters.
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Yoda Is Your Father said:
rcb said:

ask the kids and younger people. they'll say different. i like them, but i admit that there are flaws in the PT.

How young is young?  I was 18 when TPM came out and I thought it sucked ass.

 

I think by this standard of young, 18 is rather old.

To respond to rcb's age comment, there is an age where a kid will think beyond a doubt that Teletubbies are better than the OT, doesn't mean he is going to continue to feel that way as taste begins to mature a little.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Gaffer Tape said:

Sometimes I wonder if Han couldn't have been used better for what he was.  He was supposed to be the anti-hero of the first movie, and he did a pretty good job of that, but, of course, he redeemed himself at the end of the movie by saving Luke.  Empire still had some of that.  His original motivation was to get back to that, but it never really worked out.  And, of course, in Return, they'd pretty much given up on his character moving at all.  So, really, both the sequels wasted that character (as in, there's very little ambiguity in Empire and absolutely no development in Return) as it was originally conceived.

 

 You make some excellent points, Gaffer! I guess by it's very nature, ESB has the other characters tread water while Luke gears up for ROTJ... I think the romance and then parting of Han & Leia serves as their character development in ESB... other than that, they're only there to get Luke & Vader together for the big finale...

Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Many people think Han's death would have been better for his character, but I don't really see that. In fact, after the long gap between the ESB and ROTJ and not knowing the fate of Han, I think it would have been rather annoying to have him rescued only to have him die. Might as well just killed him off in ESB.

ROTJ was really focused on Luke's character, and I think it worked well in that way. Putting too much emphasis on the other characters might very well have taken away from that. I do however, think Han would have benefitted from being involved in the space battle, rather than on the ground. Doesn't really stand that they would have such an ace pilot on their hands, and not have him in the space battle. I think it might have been interesting had Lando been on the ground, with Han and Chewie in the Falcon. But this would have taken away from the Han Leia romance, which really needed to go somewhere after being setup in ESB.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Han in Jedi is a funny thing. By the end, he's essentially become a team player, with a grownup job in the new government and a wife. When we met him he was a dope smuggler! So he really did have growth in the movie. It just wasn't the kind of growth that anyone particularly wanted to see! On the other hand, killing him would turn the whole movie into some bullshit bittersweet thing that really would only satisfy some teenage posers who want Star Wars to be dark.

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They need to create an Episode 7. Titled "Han Solo Unleashed." Where he gets divorced and lives a life of true adventure again.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Baronlando said:

Han in Jedi is a funny thing. By the end, he's essentially become a team player, with a grownup job in the new government and a wife.

Well, that is EU stuff. None of it is in the movie.

By the end of ROTJ, Han is merely a fighter in the battle against tyrany and stands a good chance to get lucky with the princess. At that point there was nothing to say the Empire was over, or that Han was going to take a job in the New Republic, marry Leia, or even that there would be a New Republic (as there was nothing to say the Empire was over, other than having lost their second end all be all weapon, and having lost their Emperor. If the President of the US was killed, and we lost a few of our finest battleships, it would suck big time, but the US government would be far from fallen). 

And

Han Solo Unleashed! HAHA! That would be pretty awesome.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:
Baronlando said:

Han in Jedi is a funny thing. By the end, he's essentially become a team player, with a grownup job in the new government and a wife.

Well, that is EU stuff. None of it is in the movie.

By the end of ROTJ, Han is merely a fighter in the battle against tyrany and stands a good chance to get lucky with the princess. At that point there was nothing to say the Empire was, or that Han was going to take a job in the New Republic, marry Leia, or even that there would be a New Republic (as there was nothing to say the Empire was over, other than having lost their second end all be all weapon, and having lost their Emperor. If the President of the US was killed, and we lost a few of our finest battleships, it would suck big time, but the US government would be far from fallen). 

And

Han Solo Unleashed! HAHA! That would be pretty awesome.

 

well, I'd equate the Emperor more to a dictator than a U.S. President. If the President dies, there is a system in place to deal with that. If a dictator dies the region can fall into chaos.