Lets talk about abortion.

Don't you think we ought to keep this sort of thing confined to the politics thread?

Im in favor of any type of population control, overpopulation is becoming a big problem in alot of aspects of the planet

Edit: My initial statement could be taken out of context, Im not for Hitler population control, like trying to wipe out a whole ethnicity
But I would be in favor for harsher sanctions (straight death penalty, none of this waiting 10 years crap) against those who commit certain crimes, like rape, child molestation, murder, ect ect

CompMovieGuy said:

Im in favor of any type of population control.

Me too. Personally, I think we need to build a large number of "death camps" around the country. Each of these death camps will contain some means of disposing of a mass quantities of body in some enviromentally green way. Maybe even figure out a means to convert this human matter into some form of fuel.

Anyway, we use these death camps to flush out our prisons. Then we start giving the death penalty for most severe crimes. Rape, murder, child molestation, kidnapping, attempted murder, etc. All these kinds of offenses will earn you a 1 way ticket to the death camp, where you will be taken care of.

I think this will be a good method of weeding out "problems" from our society, while severly discouraging these kinds of crimes, as well as provide a good means of controling the population.

Janskeet said:

I really don't see what the big deal is.

try being a male (by this i mean one that actually cares that he has fathered a child)  who gets a female pregnant and has no say whatsoever if she wants to abort your child. Abortion has become as readily available over here as the contraception pill. no one seems to have to take responsibility for their actions any more. its just do what you want, take a pill and abort the child. It being given to children as young as 10 now by GP's without the parents even having any knowledge of it.

Now there are circumstances where an abortion would be the best option, but when its done so casually i'm totally against that.

C3PX said:

CompMovieGuy said:

Im in favor of any type of population control.

Me too. Personally, I think we need to build a large number of "death camps" around the country. Each of these death camps will contain some means of disposing of a mass quantities of body in some enviromentally green way. Maybe even figure out a means to convert this human matter into some form of fuel.

Anyway, we use these death camps to flush out our prisons. Then we start giving the death penalty for most severe crimes. Rape, murder, child molestation, kidnapping, attempted murder, etc. All these kinds of offenses will earn you a 1 way ticket to the death camp, where you will be taken care of.

I think this will be a good method of weeding out "problems" from our society, while severly discouraging these kinds of crimes, as well as provide a good means of controling the population.

I'm DarkFather, and I approve this message.

The problem with the abortion debate is that it tends to run on two extremes. Even people who try to take a more middle of the road approached, are knocked over into the extreme by the yahoo who takes the opposing view.

You have one side where you are infringing on the woman's right if you do not allow her to kill her child any time between conception and the second it comes out the birth canal. Then you have the opposing side where it is absolutely wrong no matter what, and if it a situation arises where it is going to be the mother's life or the babies then it is still wrong.

I disagree with both of these sides. The only thing I really care about with this whole abortion debate is that people realize that it absolutely is a real human life we are dealing with. When you abort a baby you are doing just that, you are putting an end to a human life. This is not right-wing rhetoric BS, this is pure fact, regardless of which side of the aisle you are on. If you come to terms with that fact, and still think it is a fabulous idea, then good for you. Just so long as you see it as it is.

People who want to use it as a means of population control scare the living fuck out of me with their fascist line of thinking. The whole idea of killing babies for the sake of keeping our number down is pretty sick. Let's also try out mandatory sterilization for anyone who doesn't go to college or join the military by the age of 19.

Janskeet said:

Do you anti-abortionists seriously think god put everyone on this planet for a reason?

No.

What's wrong with choice?

Nothing.

I think people should have a right to choose whether you have your child or not

I think people should have a right to choose whether you get born or not.

"Pro-choice" is a painfully misleading word. It would be like if I wanted to go to your house and murder you, and you didn't want me too. I'd angrily says, "Come on man, this is MY choice. I choose to murder you and you are being all anti-choice!" Pro-choice doesn't fit, it is a dumb word to use. Where is the baby's right to choice? It isn't like the pro-choicers are all about defending everyone's right to choose, they are defending one person's right to choose when it affects more than just their life.

If you want to end the life of your unborn baby, I am totally cool with that, it is between you and your baby, and is none of my business. But I wish we could grow up and leave the smoke and mirror out of it.

Janskeet said:

I say, it is none of our business what people do with their embryos. If they want to have sex like manics and have tons of babies and kill them all. I say, kill 'em all!!! Just kidding

I don't think you are kidding, I think you are serious (which is perfectly fine). Where do you really stand on this? Your first post seemed to indicate that you fully support abortion.

Also worth noting, it is only an embryo up until around the eight week point, from then on it is a fetus. 

I was going to throw in my two cents, but I really don't have to since ferris summed up how I feel about it so perfectly. 

"She should have chosen not to get pregnant." Yeah, because that statement isn't all kinds of ignorant.

The condom may have broken. The birth control may have not worked for whatever reason. Maybe she was raped in an alley somewhere.

I love children. What little real joy is left in the world undoubtedly comes from them. So I am pro-choice as long as it happens in very early stages of the fetus' development.

ferris209 said: No excuse EVER for abortion.

Except for population control, Im willing to bet that in the next 100 years that having a kid becomes state/country regulated, cause jimbo doesnt need to be the father of 16 kids and laquiesa needs to learn no matter how good it feels without a condom, when she has 8 kids already, a condom needs to be mandatory....if not sterialization

Never quote me on something I never said, CompMovieGuy. Double check who said that.

No, it is not ignorant. Unless someone can prove to me otherwise, most abortions are due to neglectful women who have unprotected sex.

I think your sex life is down the hole, so you wish to put restrictions on other's sex lives in order to feel like you have company, so to speak.

Anyway: prove that most abortions ARE due to neglectful women who have unprotected sex. Sure, some are, but some pregnancies are total accidents after steps were taken for pregnancy to not happen.

She needs to suck it up and have the baby, even if she was raped, she could pass that child on to adoption and allow the result of a tragic moment for her be turned into a lifetime of love for another.

So you want to sentence the child to a life-time hell of children's homes and foster parents? The merciful thing to do with an unwanted child who is the product of rape is to abort it, at least while it's still in the early stages of development, when it has no thought, no feelings, no dreams, or identity of its own. It is indeed extremely ignorant to not take a closer look at what that child would be going through if they were put up for adoption. An unwanted child's life isn't a bittersweet Disney fairytale. It's cold, gritty, and highly traumatic.

CompMovieGuy said:

Ferris said: No excuse EVER for abortion.

 

Except for population control, Im willing to bet that in the next 100 years that having a kid becomes state/country regulated, cause jimbo doesnt need to be the father of 16 kids and laquiesa needs to learn no matter how good it feels without a condom, when she has 8 kids already, a condom needs to be mandatory....if not sterialization

Seriously dude, you scare the shit out of me. And I am the guy who think murder should be legalized (within reason).

DarkFather said:

 

No, it is not ignorant. Unless someone can prove to me otherwise, most abortions are due to neglectful women who have unprotected sex.

 

I think your sex life is down the hole, so you wish to put restrictions on other's sex lives in order to feel like you have company, so to speak.

Don't talk through your ass. It is bad manners. (No offense of anything, it just needed to be said).

So you want to sentence the child to a life-time hell of children's homes and foster parents? The merciful thing to do with an unwanted child who is the product of rape is to abort it, at least while it's still in the early stages of development, when it has no thought, no feelings, no dreams, or identity of its own. It is indeed extremely ignorant to not take a closer look at what that child would be going through if they were put up for adoption. An unwanted child's life isn't a bittersweet Disney fairytale. It's cold, gritty, and highly traumatic.

Yet strangely, I have multiple friends who are trying to adopt for years. For some reason it isn't an easy thing to do. One couple I know say it is their dream to adopt 14 kids, and I have actually known other couples who have done things similar to this. Seems to me there is an incredible amount of families out there who really want to adopt kids and give them a good life, but have to wait years and years for one, yet here we are talking about mercy killings of inocent lives so they don't have to go through life unwanted. Maybe it is just me, but something feels WAY out of wack here.

Don't talk through your ass. It is bad manners. (No offense of anything, it just needed to be said).

Seems to me there is an incredible amount of families out there who really want to adopt kids and give them a good life, but have to wait years and years for one, yet here we are talking about mercy killings of inocent lives so they don't have to go through life unwanted.

That's the fault of the system, not my argument.

@ DarkFather


Obviously Im sorry, this was a mistake on my part

C3PX said:

Seriously dude, you scare the shit out of me. And I am the guy who think murder should be legalized (within reason).

 

Well I guess some of us have extreme sides, but you know whats scary? I consider myself a very middle of the road type person ;)

DarkFather said:

Don't talk through your ass. It is bad manners. (No offense of anything, it just needed to be said).

If you look closely at how the guy's talking, you can see where I'm coming from. Try it.

All I see is you insulting someone else because they don't hold the same views as you. I am all for disagreeing with people, but there are far more mature ways to go about doing it than taking low blows at their sex lives.

DarkFather said:

Seems to me there is an incredible amount of families out there who really want to adopt kids and give them a good life, but have to wait years and years for one, yet here we are talking about mercy killings of inocent lives so they don't have to go through life unwanted.

That's the fault of the system, not my argument.

That was my point. The emphasis needs to be on fixing the fault in the system, not on fixing symtoms and leaving the problem alone. You can waste countless rolls of paper towel mopping water off the floor, or you could fix the leaking pipe.

All I know is that I am really glad I wasn't aborted. Had my mom aborted me I'd be freakin pissed.

CompMovieGuy said:

C3PX said:

Seriously dude, you scare the shit out of me. And I am the guy who think murder should be legalized (within reason).

Well I guess some of us have extreme sides, but you know whats scary? I consider myself a very middle of the road type person ;)

Hey, what a coincidence! I also consider myself middle of the road!

I think the answer is tied to the nature of the thing in question: is the embryo a human being, or not?

If it is something less than human, then preference can dictate what happens to it.

If, however, it is indeed a human being, abortion would be unthinkable.