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nightstalkerpoet said:
- Star Wars does need to be updated to maintain its impact on new generations.
Nah, that's bullshit.
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Let's all say something nice about George Lucas. No insults allowed. — Page 6
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I'm sorry, but if you sit a kid down with the choice between EP IV and lets say Star Trek (the new one) the visuals are going draw the kid into the film much better than the amazing storyline.
Yeah, as adults we can sit back and think - That was pretty amazing for its time. But Star Wars grabs us in childhood for the most part. And in a generation that is growing up with The Clone Wars cartoons instead of the films, do you have any clue how outdated the OOT seems?
The OOT is beautifully acted and constructed. I'm simply saying that there was a certain visual WOW factor that we all got the first time we saw the films that isn't translating through the decades, when compared to modern films. And I think it would be amazing to simply update the "WOW" factor.
Thus why this is on topic. I think George Lucas has the right idea in this.
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SilverWook said:
If new generations require modern CGI FX in order to be able to simply enjoy what is now and forever a classic film from 1977, then they can go screw themselves. I don't mean to be difficult, but that's how strongly I feel about it.
I wonder if George has sat down to watch Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers lately? He needs a refresher course in what he was trying to make in the first place.
I'm curious... the very first time you ever saw Star Wars, why did you like it?
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My brother became a Star Wars fan when he was about 9. He loved the OT and was quite okay with TPM. When he saw AOTC about a year later, he lost interest in SW for a long while, because he thought the movie was a piece of crap. And yet AOTC was the one with the richest wisuals to date. So no, I have faith in future generations.
And since I have nothing nice to say about GL, I will now leave this thread (for a while at least).
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nightstalkerpoet said:
I'm sorry, but if you sit a kid down with the choice between EP IV and lets say Star Trek (the new one) the visuals are going draw the kid into the film much better than the amazing storyline.
So we need to change everything according to what kids like at a certain time? That is bullshit.
And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.
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nightstalkerpoet said:
I'm generally pretty happy with George's involvement in his projects.
- I blame Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen.
- George may have decision power over a project, but he also has a deadline. If the people working for him can't do what he asks of them fast enough... is it really his fault?
- Star Wars does need to be updated to maintain its impact on new generations.
My biggest disappointment with George is how much (with the exception of releasing the OOT) he caters to fans.
I personally am wating for versions of the OT where all computer monitors look modern, where Yoda is CG, where mattes are replaced with CGI, where space battles match the intensity of the prequel trilogy. I want to see a completely CG version of inside the JAWA Crawler. I want to see the Cantina replaced, and Greedo painted over with cgi.
So... I like that George wants to match Star Wars to his vision. I simply hope he can overstep the things in his way and do it. He has enough money and enough resources (and the technology is there.) to make the OT look as stunning as ROTS.
<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>
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Probably a combo :P
Honestly, I'm simply very disappointed with the way that the cgi elements of the SE conflict with everything else. But without them, I feel that the OT feels very dated in comparison to the PT. To me, the logical thing to fix this is by going all out with a CGI reconstruction of the film. I'm not saying screw the OUT, I'm simply saying if you're going to mess with it, do it thoroughly.
Or perhaps faneditors could create PT edits that look like the OT :P
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I think you're just talking about your own computery fetish and blaming it on "today's kids". It can't be done anyway, modern movies like Trek '09 are scored, photographed, edited in a totally different way, no amount of cartoon dinosaurs, floating shit and fake sunsets can change that.
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nightstalkerpoet said:
- Star Wars does need to be updated to maintain its impact on new generations.
Then why does Wizard of Oz continue to be beloved by every generation since 1939? I have friends whose kids love that movie, no updates, just good ol 1939 sets/effects in the backround. Star Wars would be just as beloved today if the OOT version were on Bluray or DVD. Lucas has put this in everyones mind by updating the movies that they NEEDED to be updated but I never heard anyone complain abuot updating them in 1991, 1992, 1993....
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I do agree with nightstalkerpoet about the need for LFL to update the original films, but to put all their effort into it, Lucas has tinkered with his original Star Wars the most which shows that the movie most of us love the most is probably the movie he's most unhappy with, if he's gonna fix it....then fix it....go beyond what Ady has done, fix all publicised errors, if he is gonna place rocks in front of R2's hiding place, then show them in the next scene, not create new continuity errors....if he wants the X-wings updated to CG then go the full hog and change all of them with their own markings not all clones of Red 2.
I naturally would prefer to see the movie as I originally saw it back in 77, where its groundbreaking special effects and sound design fledged the way for blockbusters as we know them now, but that movie now on BD has now been erased, watered down to a weaker version of what we loved, if LFL were to resurrect that movie by updating it, they need to really treat it as a new project....new scan from the original negatives, forget about stupid bRontos, Greedo shooting first etc.
The effects these guys are capable of, but they seem just to tart this film up every few years like giving your house a lick of paint, eventually you need to strip it right back and start again.
If this is what he has planned for the 3D release i'd be amazed.....and while he's at it he can give us a decent BD of the OUT....think of the money he'd make
J
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George Lucas is really good at taking sole credit for the contributions of other people.
“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”
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Jaitea said:
I do agree with nightstalkerpoet about the need for LFL to update the original films, but to put all their effort into it, Lucas has tinkered with his original Star Wars the most which shows that the movie most of us love the most is probably the movie he's most unhappy with, if he's gonna fix it....then fix it....go beyond what Ady has done, fix all publicised errors, if he is gonna place rocks in front of R2's hiding place, then show them in the next scene, not create new continuity errors....if he wants the X-wings updated to CG then go the full hog and change all of them with their own markings not all clones of Red 2.
I naturally would prefer to see the movie as I originally saw it back in 77, where its groundbreaking special effects and sound design fledged the way for blockbusters as we know them now, but that movie now on BD has now been erased, watered down to a weaker version of what we loved, if LFL were to resurrect that movie by updating it, they need to really treat it as a new project....new scan from the original negatives, forget about stupid bRontos, Greedo shooting first etc.
The effects these guys are capable of, but they seem just to tart this film up every few years like giving your house a lick of paint, eventually you need to strip it right back and start again.
If this is what he has planned for the 3D release i'd be amazed.....and while he's at it he can give us a decent BD of the OUT....think of the money he'd make
J
Why not just remake the OT and get it fucking over with.
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CO said:
nightstalkerpoet said:
- Star Wars does need to be updated to maintain its impact on new generations.
Then why does Wizard of Oz continue to be beloved by every generation since 1939? I have friends whose kids love that movie, no updates, just good ol 1939 sets/effects in the backround. Star Wars would be just as beloved today if the OOT version were on Bluray or DVD. Lucas has put this in everyones mind by updating the movies that they NEEDED to be updated but I never heard anyone complain abuot updating them in 1991, 1992, 1993....
THIS
<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>
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Of course. The presence of a digital ship in a movie, or the lack thereof, is not going to sell a kid one way or another on any movie, give them a little credit. That whole thing about doing this "for the new generation of children" is P.R. horseshit anyway. They only say that because it sounds better than "we're doing it for guys with OCD and to jack off with software."
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Actually, in all honesty it is done because of one reason:
Star Wars is a creation of George Lucas and HE wants to use today's technology. The filmmaking techniques that are available today can often trace their roots directly back to those developed to create Star Wars. It is up to him, and the only reason he keeps holding back from going all out on the OT is because of the fans that gripe about every little thing he does. He's trying to make everyone happy by doing a little of both, but is ultimately disappointing everyone.
The Wizard of Oz is an odd case there, because I don't think anything could be changed to make the film be better. Replacing the cowardly lion with a Realistic, CGI lion would not make the film better. Removing a walking trash can robot from Star Wars COULD improve Star Wars for the better.
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I'd say he's disappointing the fans more by not putting out good quality versions of the original films.
See that's the inherent problem most fans have with Lucas. Yeah they're not crazy about the changes but those complaints with be far less frequent if he just put out a cleaned up pristine version of the OT. George can go nuts all he wants. Hell he can get Rip Taylor to dub Vader for all I care provided the original film is preserved. Its the same reason Blade Runner fans aren't bitching about there being 5 different cuts of the movie, because the initial one hasn't been ignored or suppressed.
The whole notion of younger fans not being able to get into the original films merely due to older effects is flawed to me because a lot of kids by their very nature are able to suspend disbelief and embrace the universes that are presented to them. The visual style alone attracts fans.
In fact the entire concept of doing a visual overall (everything short of an outright remake) is flawed because the films were not shot, edited, or scripted with the intent of having 21st century effects inserted into them. Its why the additions are so jarring, not simply because they are different from what everyone's used to, but because its goes against the flow of the whole production. Its like adding CGI to the robot in Metropolis. You can claim its to add the story of the film and a reflection of Rotwang's brilliance in mechanical design, its still going to stick out because Fritz Lang didn't use the angles and cuts he did so certain effects could be added.
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nightstalkerpoet said:
Actually, in all honesty it is done because of one reason:
Because Lucas only had story enough for one film, which he released in 1977. When both of the people he contracted to write a sequel turned in stories he didn't care for (sorry, no 12-film Original Vision), he decided to just expand that one story.
He quickly developed a serious case of writer's block and decided to let his ego lead the way. He shrunk all the elements, characters, and the universe they took place in, as an easy out. Counting all the SE versions, Prequels, BD, upcoming 3D, etc - he's spent nearly 35 years re-telling that same story. Poorly. When Red Tails tanks, he'll go back to Star Wars, yet again.
Better writers\directors make other films. George has proven time and again that he can't move past Star Wars. There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home.......
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nightstalkerpoet said:
The Wizard of Oz is an odd case there, because I don't think anything could be changed to make the film be better. Replacing the cowardly lion with a Realistic, CGI lion would not make the film better. Removing a walking trash can robot from Star Wars COULD improve Star Wars for the better.
Its not an odd case, Star Wars is an odd case ;)
I cant name any classic movie (pre Star Wars) that has been updated or changed that is better in 2011. Lawrence of Arabia, Ben Hur, Wizard of Oz, heck even 2001 are EXACTLY the way they were shown in theaters, and they are still beloved today.
What Lucas & SE fans will never get about the OT is that the characters and the story are the reasons its beloved today, NOT the special effects. If the Special Effects were the #1 selling point in 1977, then the movie would not hold up today.
Just like Independence Day wowed audiences in 1996 because of the cool effects and the White House Blowing up. 15 years later? The movie is just another CGI-fest, with lame characters, no drama, and cheesy acting that goes in the vault of the only good thing about it is you can show off your surround sound.
Luke, Leia and Han, Vader, Kenobi, Yoda, The Emperor, Chewy, C3PO, R2D2, and Lando are the reason the OT still holds up today. I know thats why I still care about the movies, not some extra dewback on Tatooine ;)
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I happen to love Independence Day :P
I've derailed this topic enough... get back to praising George :D
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nightstalkerpoet said:
The Wizard of Oz is an odd case there, because I don't think anything could be changed to make the film be better. Replacing the cowardly lion with a Realistic, CGI lion would not make the film better. Removing a walking trash can robot from Star Wars COULD improve Star Wars for the better.
I don't see the logic in this at all. How is the cowardly lion, who just looks like a guy in a cheap mask and costume, less in need of a re-do than Artoo, who looks and acts like an actual robot?
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The Wizard of Oz is self-contained. The visuals of the film only need to meet the standard of the other visuals in the film.
Star Wars is different, in that there is a twenty five year technology gap between the first one produced and the last one produced. Comparing the creatures in the Cantina scene to even the creatures in Jabba's palace is quite a difference, let alone everything they were able to create for the PT.
Lucas' intention is for us to watch the films 1-6, because they tell one single story. Thus everything within that story is held to the standards of everything else within the story. I respect the integrity of the OT, and don't feel that midichlorians or the Force Ghost of Qui-Gon need to be added for continuity, because story wise I feel that the PT should have been matched better.
However, I do feel that to create a continuous story where you watch the films back to back, the visual difference between the films should be made less jarring. ROTS is beautiful on Bluray, while many scenes in ANH are very underwhelming, despite other scenes having been cleaned thoroughly. Take the opening sequence for example: The space battle looks great, engines and lasers are pristine but... in one place, you see a VERY outdated shot of the Tantive IV. Where is the harm in replacing this shot with a cgi model of the ship, to keep that single shot from standing out like an eyesore? The same goes for the scenes of the droids walking through the desert, where rainbow effects are obviously detracting from the picture quality.
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OR... the creator could have put some effort to try and make the prequels look like they actually take place BEFORE the OT. Of course that would require some creative writing and directing, perhaps even a bit of effort, probably more than that idea-stealing and lying narcisist is capale of.
And that's about everything nice I have to say about that man.
Oh and he made some nice songs.
Wait, that was that other guy.
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Wexter said:
OR... the creator could have put some effort to try and make the prequels look like they actually take place BEFORE the OT.
That would actually strike me as the easier way to go.
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Thanks for the idea.
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CWBorne said:
Wexter said:
OR... the creator could have put some effort to try and make the prequels look like they actually take place BEFORE the OT.
That would actually strike me as the easier way to go.
Yes... I've always found changing the past to be easier than working with what you have in the present. ;)
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