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Scotty's grief over Ensign Prestion makes more sense when you know it's his nephew. Saavik's emotional side makes more sense when you know she's half Romulan.

I'm not saying a movie is better for being longer. There are plenty of films with ridiculous amounts of padding. (TWOK might have only been a few minutes longer with those character bits intact.) There are plenty of films that have arguably been ruined, because the only mandate was one from the suits in the front office to make it shorter, not trim the fat.

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The Frighteners (director's cut) (1996)

There isn't much I have to say in regards to this film; in some cases it's better than the theatrical version (more scenes with Cyrus and Stuart), in some cases it gives away too much information that was better left up to the imagination (the scenes delving into Dammer's undercover experiences), but for the most part it's the same, for better and worse (I love the first half of the film, but it loses it's edge once Death becomes Jake Busey).

Overall, I rate it the same as the theatrical version -- 9/10

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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Actually, the bits of dialogue with Saavik's Romulan heritage aren't actually put back into the longer TV version of Wrath of Khan. They did appear in some extremely low-quality footage shown at various Star Trek conventions over the years, though.

For my money, by far the most intriguing deleted subplot in that movie involves the lost scenes where it's revealed that Khan has an infant son of his own, whom he quite willingly blows up along with the Genesis Device in his last attempt at revenge on Kirk.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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True, but that bit of info made it into the pages of Starlog at the time. Along with speculation she was Spock's daughter, possibly conceived during the events of The Enterprise Incident. Star Trek III throws this idea under the moon shuttle of course. ;)

I suspect Khan baby got the ax because it was a little too dark, even for 1982. Some people think Joachim was Khan's son, even though there was a character by that name in Space Seed.

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SilverWook said:

True, but that bit of info made it into the pages of Starlog at the time. Along with speculation she was Spock's daughter, possibly conceived during the events of The Enterprise Incident. Star Trek III throws this idea under the moon shuttle of course. ;)

I suspect Khan baby got the ax because it was a little too dark, even for 1982. Some people think Joachim was Khan's son, even though there was a character by that name in Space Seed.

 I thought it was his son, named after one of Khan's most loyal followers and first to die in the horrors and aftermath of the Ceti Alpha VI explosion.

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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Transformers 4.

I will go into more detail in the morning but I just got back from this and I will just say I feel like my brain was raped by a 18 wheeler full of stupid and badly written action scenes and this movies is well over an hour too long.  Looking at the screen gave me a splitting headache and I had to walk out for five minutes.  I think this is worse then Transformers 2.  Yes you read that right.  There wasn't a single character I liked and it was just an uneven mess.  There were the seeds of a good story in this movie but sadly they were never allowed to grow into anything.  it's just a mess and the worst of the series.

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The only cure is to watch the real Transformers movie from the 80's. ;)

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I think you might physically vomit if you were to watch Transformers 2 again. I think most people have forgotten just how bad that one was. =|

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DrCrowTStarwars said:

Transformers 4.

I will go into more detail in the morning but I just got back from this and I will just say I feel like my brain was raped by a 18 wheeler full of stupid and badly written action scenes and this movies is well over an hour too long.  Looking at the screen gave me a splitting headache and I had to walk out for five minutes.  I think this is worse then Transformers 2.  Yes you read that right.  There wasn't a single character I liked and it was just an uneven mess.  There were the seeds of a good story in this movie but sadly they were never allowed to grow into anything.  it's just a mess and the worst of the series.

 That deserves a poster...

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ATMachine said:


For my money, by far the most intriguing deleted subplot in that movie involves the lost scenes where it's revealed that Khan has an infant son of his own, whom he quite willingly blows up along with the Genesis Device in his last attempt at revenge on Kirk.
It's not supposed to be Khan's son specifically, just a member of his crew's child. Chekov found his crib in the containers, then we see him wandering around the Genesis device before it goes off. Who lets a toddler into a transporter room? What does that add to the movie? It makes a triumphant moment actually very sad, so it was right to be cut.

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DominicCobb said:


I do enjoy some good robo action

 Too bad the TF movies don't have any.  All they have are robo action scenes that are confused messes.

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SilverWook said:

Tobar said:

I'm still saddened by the fact that we'll never get another Sky Captain. =(

 We should have a thread on movies that deserved sequels, and movies that inexplicably did get sequels.

 *cough*

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Ryan McAvoy said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Transformers 4.

I will go into more detail in the morning but I just got back from this and I will just say I feel like my brain was raped by a 18 wheeler full of stupid and badly written action scenes and this movies is well over an hour too long.  Looking at the screen gave me a splitting headache and I had to walk out for five minutes.  I think this is worse then Transformers 2.  Yes you read that right.  There wasn't a single character I liked and it was just an uneven mess.  There were the seeds of a good story in this movie but sadly they were never allowed to grow into anything.  it's just a mess and the worst of the series.

 That deserves a poster...

 Wow!  Love it!:)

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TV's Frink said:

DominicCobb said:


I do enjoy some good robo action

 Too bad the TF movies don't have any.  All they have are robo action scenes that are confused messes.

 Yeah that's why I stopped watching after I saw the Revenge of the Fallen cluster fuck.

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I Will say this for the movie I could tell which robot was which and who was hitting who in the action scenes and Micheal Bay makes some of the best use of 3D I have seen. It really looks like you are looking through a window into another world and there is a real depth to things,but that is where the good stuff pretty much ends.

Oh and I have to say I was just playing Mass Effect 2 before I went to see this movie and it was really strange hearing Grunt's voice coming out of another character's mouth.

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Gotta say, I don't understand the hate for T4.

Maybe it's because I very recently revisited the eye and ear gouge inducing atrocity that was Transformers 2 and so anything after that would have to be a step up.

I also think the length was justified given everything it had to setup. Which I'll just dive into because most don't seem to care about the franchise enough to worry about spoilers.

Firstly, it had to establish this dire new world that has come to be in the 10 years since the last film. Along with a whole new cast of human characters to replace the old.

Second, it had to establish a return for the main villain. Not an easy task given his fate in the last film. I loved that this heralded the return of his original voice actor from the series.

Third, it had to setup the new galactic scope the franchise seems to be headed in. The revelation of that intergalactic bounty hunter and who he worked for sent the Transformers fans I know into a frenzy. I'm not sure why as I'm just barely getting into the franchise myself but it seems like a pretty big deal.

I'll give you that most of the human characters were garbage. The daughter and her boyfriend were just terrible. But Marky Mark and especially Frasier were great.

All of the Autobots depicted had varied and unoffensive personalities and there were no utter abominations like these two. Though Optimus Prime jumping around shouting, "I'LL KILL YOU!" was more than a little out of character and reminded me heavily of Axe Cop. =P

It's still a Michael Bay film and as such there was never any hope that it would be a smart film. But I would say it was a competent action packed popcorn flick.

Help finish ROTJ: Revisited!

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Did they stiff old school fans on the dinobots as I've heard?

Funny you should mention axe cop, I only stumbled on the cartoon late last night on tv, and had no clue what the hell I was watching. ;)

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It's times like these where I take smug, self-satisfied pride in the fact that I haven't seen even one of Michael Bay's movies.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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Tobar said:

Gotta say, I don't understand the hate for T4.

 I agree.  Terminator Salvation wasn't a masterpiece, but it wasn't awful.  And I like Q2's edit of it.

HOW DARE YOU USE THE T NOMENCLATURE FOR THIS DREK?

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DuracellEnergizer said:

It's times like these where I take smug, self-satisfied pride in the fact that I haven't seen even one of Michael Bay's movies.

 Same here.  Unless he's done something years ago I didn't realize was him.

*opens Google in another tab*...

Wait...I was wrong.  I saw The Rock in the theaters.  One viewing only, remember nothing about the film or the story. 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Aside from random bits on tv, I'd never watched a whole Bay film until The Island. (The things I do for Frink!) I still have a sealed HD DVD copy of Transformers lying in a drawer like some Pandora's Box.

When Criterion came out with editions of The Rock and Armageddon on Laserdisc, there was a bit of a fuss as some people thought those films were unworthy of the label. Armageddon was the last LD Criterion released.

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The Black Hole (1979)

Fantastic film and incredibly dark for a Disney picture. The ending though...I'm not sure if I hallucinated that or not. =P

There's a remake in the works and I hope that at least finally gets the film released on blu-ray.

Help finish ROTJ: Revisited!

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Anchorhead said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

It's times like these where I take smug, self-satisfied pride in the fact that I haven't seen even one of Michael Bay's movies.

 Same here.  Unless he's done something years ago I didn't realize was him.

*opens Google in another tab*...

Wait...I was wrong.  I saw The Rock in the theaters.  One viewing only, remember nothing about the film or the story. 

His first 3 movies from the 90s are great 'Bad Boys', 'The Rock' and 'Armageddon'. Big stupid ludicrously unbelievable escapist popcorn action flicks. You have to leave your brain at the door but at least they are fun. Although there is an element of 'ironic enjoyment' of those three.

His work since then has ranged from misjudged to godawful dreck.

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Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes

No spoilers.

Outstanding.  To me this was much more engaging than Rise, which I also really liked.  Dawn is a much darker film and story.  Set ten years after Rise, it's a completely different world out there.  This is about how I would expect things to go in a situation like this.  Fear and panic driving many decisions. The phrase often mentioned when discussing this is "an uneasy peace". That's actually a perfect description of the entire film.  Everything about it is uneasy and tense.

The film is very much a story seen from the apes' point of view.  Humans in this case are the secondary players.  They don't really need names because they aren't important to the ape world or nearly any of the apes themselves.  It's not unlike the 1968 film where they're just a generic species to the apes.  They're just humans.

It's reminiscent of the structure of Battle for the Planet of the Apes.  Obviously done on a much larger, much darker, and much more realistic scale.  It had a few scenes that reminded me of particular scenes in Battle.  That's not a criticism. This film feels like a Planet Of The Apes film.  

A part of that is the score, which also deserves a mention. Giacchino did a fantastic job.  It's a deliberate nod to the 1968 film and fits perfectly in what is now, like the 1968 film, an ape society.

Saw it in 3D and was again very happy with it.  Not at all distracting, and really made me feel like I was in the film.

No doubt about it, I'll see it again in the theater and have it on DVD as soon as it's available.  Already have the soundtrack. Listening to it now, in fact.

Dawn gets an easy 5 out of 5 messenger bags.

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