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Laserdisc revived - pics added — Page 2

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dark_jedi said:

Bring on some samples already LOL,all I keep reading is spechs and such,lets see a sample,because if this is going to be the next X0 then I may as well not capture mine then.
"put up or shut up" and please don't take this as a bash,but we have all read what a fantastic capture something "can" be and NEVER see shit,and I really don't think I have to mention any specific project here do I?

Whoa, tough crowd.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
dark_jedi said:

Bring on some samples already LOL,all I keep reading is spechs and such,lets see a sample,because if this is going to be the next X0 then I may as well not capture mine then.
"put up or shut up" and please don't take this as a bash,but we have all read what a fantastic capture something "can" be and NEVER see shit,and I really don't think I have to mention any specific project here do I?

Whoa, tough crowd.

 

sorry,but just curious if we were going to have page after page of spechs and no samples is all,like I said,I mean no harm,I just want to see something.

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Speeches ? Ive spent the recent days modifying my gear, just now i made permanent changes to my Sony C2ex Muse highdef player. Several high def circuits is no more and cant be put back in, now it only plays back NTSC. My Runco video processor got similar treatment where i desoldered 32 connectors on the back and changed mainboard with another type with less active components, all in the name of better picture. I will post samples once i got my power filtering built, lacking a few R-core transformators (best there is for less noise) and the capture card.

Laserdisc for life, Denon LA3500, Sony C2ex/+\Mdp999 “Hercules”
if you want to contribute: http://paypal.me/LDRevive

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Cool. Take the time necessary to make a capture you can be proud of.
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dark_jedi said:
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
dark_jedi said:

Bring on some samples already LOL,all I keep reading is spechs and such,lets see a sample,because if this is going to be the next X0 then I may as well not capture mine then.
"put up or shut up" and please don't take this as a bash,but we have all read what a fantastic capture something "can" be and NEVER see shit,and I really don't think I have to mention any specific project here do I?

Whoa, tough crowd.

sorry,but just curious if we were going to have page after page of spechs and no samples is all,like I said,I mean no harm,I just want to see something.

Hey, the vast majority of projects here have materialized.  There really have only been a couple that haven't.  There's no reason for us to be anything but excited when a new one comes along.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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I am just soo excited. I have waited for a long time to see the original Star Wars in a higher quality than what I am used to.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

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Dark_Jedi: I checked out your JSC project and noticed a few things, i couldnt help to notice the chroma (color) noise in some of the pictures you posted. Incase you didnt know Elite 79 is a CLD-D704 with another faceplate, a few higher end audio parts, the video circuits are exactly the same. It recombinates chroma and luma for any video output, with loss of detail and color accuracy as a side effect. Its always nice to have something to judge by tho when i start capping so best of luck with your project. The only LD players to give pure output is the X0 and the C2ex (my player) Not to get people excited but im watching the anh SE 97 set now and grinning like a little boy at how good this looks, and i havent finished all the mods yet. Capture card coming in about 2 weeks, so you can expect some material in the near future. And yes im giving the raw captures to people that want to help, im not experienced with virtualdub and premiere.

Laserdisc for life, Denon LA3500, Sony C2ex/+\Mdp999 “Hercules”
if you want to contribute: http://paypal.me/LDRevive

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Aleksbmw said:

Dark_Jedi: I checked out your JSC project and noticed a few things, i couldnt help to notice the chroma (color) noise in some of the pictures you posted. Incase you didnt know Elite 79 is a CLD-D704 with another faceplate, a few higher end audio parts, the video circuits are exactly the same. It recombinates chroma and luma for any video output, with loss of detail and color accuracy as a side effect. Its always nice to have something to judge by tho when i start capping so best of luck with your project. The only LD players to give pure output is the X0 and the C2ex (my player) Not to get people excited but im watching the anh SE 97 set now and grinning like a little boy at how good this looks, and i havent finished all the mods yet. Capture card coming in about 2 weeks, so you can expect some material in the near future. And yes im giving the raw captures to people that want to help, im not experienced with virtualdub and premiere.

 

well that is nice to know,but still it is more talk,let us all see something,and so what if I do not have a top of the line player,it is pretty damn good for what I do and my results look pretty good,that is what avisynth is for,to correct,or try to anyways,the flaws.

So now we have read several statements about how "your player" is so damn good,come on man,show something,and then show more,then someday an actual release,releases to me prove everything,until something is released for ALL to enjoy,it is ALL TALK!

But I will still follow this thread and keep reading,just like I did with the X0.

So if anyone wants to attack me for what I said,go for it,everyone here that knows me(and I have been here a very long time)knows that I am a put up or shut up kind of guy.

Cheers and I will follow your thread

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I find this very amusing haha.

I understand where you are coming from though Dark_Jedi.

I almost fear that OCP was right about the X0 thing. As much as I don't want to believe that.

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Davnes: the V2000 is a tough machine. Prorably last another 20 years, im into all things laserdisc not just high end.

Laserdisc for life, Denon LA3500, Sony C2ex/+\Mdp999 “Hercules”
if you want to contribute: http://paypal.me/LDRevive

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Aleksbmw said:

The only LD players to give pure output is the X0 and the C2ex (my player)

The only high-end players to give pure composite output?

I'm pretty sure that some early/low-end Pioneer models are pure composite, along with some of their industrial models such as the V8000.

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Thats right moth3r but i didnt count them since their hardware is outdated, the chips that do Rf (signal from optical head) to composite decoding are not the best. The V-8000 is one of the best in this category, but this is a pure industrial design with hard use in mind not video quality. The best of these players is Ld-1010 if you can find one in good shape, it got much of the hardware from the LD-S1. It also got a red laser to reject noise better, it plays rotten discs etc.

Laserdisc for life, Denon LA3500, Sony C2ex/+\Mdp999 “Hercules”
if you want to contribute: http://paypal.me/LDRevive

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Aleksbmw said:
dark_jedi said:

page after page of spechs and no samples

 

Speeches ?

 

Guessin' he meant specs . . .
btw I'm enjoyin' all your tech talk and I'm sure others are soaking it up eagerly too.
I'm glad you started this thread sooner, and didn't wait until you'd got the whole kit assembled.

Sorry if you've already mentioned in one of your 'specs speeches' in the other thread
but have you hot-rodded your players analog audio section and/or CX decoder?
Do you expect your Hercules will have much cleaner audio signal than for example Elite'97 ?

And before I officially announce my project to capture ESB'80 soundtrack,
can you tell us how badly my V8000's analog CX decoder is compromised by its industrial design goals?
How does it stack up agaist others in the consumer lineup wrt analog audio ?

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Aleksbmw said:

The best of these players is Ld-1010 if you can find one in good shape, it got much of the hardware from the LD-S1.

Funny you should say that, as I recently added the CLD-1050 to my eBay favourite searches. Is it reasonable to assume that the CLD-1050 would be a good option for capturing PAL discs?

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Yep,  those two are brothers with just Pal playback added. Happy to help you mod that player moth3r since i think with mods it can beat any other Pal player.

Laserdisc for life, Denon LA3500, Sony C2ex/+\Mdp999 “Hercules”
if you want to contribute: http://paypal.me/LDRevive

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Darth Mallwalker said:

Guessin' he meant specs . . .
btw I'm enjoyin' all your tech talk and I'm sure others are soaking it up eagerly too.
I'm glad you started this thread sooner, and didn't wait until you'd got the whole kit assembled.

Sorry if you've already mentioned in one of your 'specs speeches' in the other thread
but have you hot-rodded your players analog audio section and/or CX decoder?
Do you expect your Hercules will have much cleaner audio signal than for example Elite'97 ?

And before I officially announce my project to capture ESB'80 soundtrack,
can you tell us how badly my V8000's analog CX decoder is compromised by its industrial design goals?
How does it stack up agaist others in the consumer lineup wrt analog audio ?

The audio section is one of the better features of this player, its own r-core transformer and exotic capacitors etc. It will sound a bit better but the Cld-97 is one of the best Pioneer made in that regard, so its not night and day. One of the reasons McIntosh labeled their own player from a Cld-97. The audio section in the V8000 is baseline spec, no special capacitors and seperate power system. If you changed all the caps with panasonic Fm or fc and built your own power supply for it after checking dc voltage input on the card or section. That could tidy up the audio a bit.

Just be lucky your not me when i get my shipment of capacitors from Germany, 140 capacitors that im going to swap out and bypass with tight tolerance film caps.

Laserdisc for life, Denon LA3500, Sony C2ex/+\Mdp999 “Hercules”
if you want to contribute: http://paypal.me/LDRevive

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Aleksbmw said:

Thinking Pinnacle Miro DC30 plus, probably going to be reclocked (separate precision crystal oscillator with its own power supply) for even more accurate A/D conversion.

A mate of mine has a DC-30+ and from what he tells me M-JPG does not re-compress well for MPG2/DVD.  Also, I think he mentioned something about the colour space being limited or not accurate or something.  I think from memory he mentioned that the RT2000 might be better as this used pretty much uncompressed M-JPEG and might not give the same sorts of problems.

As for the Hercules, is there any chance you can do a tutorial with pics on how to go about modding LD players?  I know I'd be hella interested in seeing something like that.

Also, are you planning on upgrading the clock in the C2EX or is the on board one good enough?  What is the Runco video scaler mentioned?  I thought all of those video scalers put out progressive for use on projectors, not interlaced, or did you mod it for a more pure interlaced output?

If television is chewing gum for the mind, then the prequels are the worlds first visual laxative.

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Orinoco_Womble said:
Aleksbmw said:

Thinking Pinnacle Miro DC30 plus, probably going to be reclocked (separate precision crystal oscillator with its own power supply) for even more accurate A/D conversion.

A mate of mine has a DC-30+ and from what he tells me M-JPG does not re-compress well for MPG2/DVD.  Also, I think he mentioned something about the colour space being limited or not accurate or something.  I think from memory he mentioned that the RT2000 might be better as this used pretty much uncompressed M-JPEG and might not give the same sorts of problems.

 

 

I'm amazed there's anyone still using a DC30! Are there even post-Win98 drivers for it? And I don't think it will plug into any software later than Premiere 5 (though I guess it does have a standalone capture app).

A fully uncompressed capture card sounds like a must for this kind of work - there was recently a brief discussion about them in the tech forum.

By the way, the RT2000 was only DV and MPEG-2. And wasn't supported by an OS after Win2000. Wow, my head is just filled with information about obsolete crap!

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Jonno said:I'm amazed there's anyone still using a DC30! Are there even post-Win98 drivers for it? And I don't think it will plug into any software later than Premiere 5 (though I guess it does have a standalone capture app).

A fully uncompressed capture card sounds like a must for this kind of work - there was recently a brief discussion about them in the tech forum.

By the way, the RT2000 was only DV and MPEG-2. And wasn't supported by an OS after Win2000. Wow, my head is just filled with information about obsolete crap!

My mate bought the card years ago when he was still using Win98. I think he said he downloaded the Win2K drivers that some German was selling privately.  I couldn't get the drivers working on my Win2K PC at the time though unfortunately.  The captures on the DC30+ looked pretty damn good too from what I remember. It's a real pitty they didn't re-compress to MPG2 very well.

Thanks for the info on the RT2000. I didn't know they were DV/MPG2 only.

If television is chewing gum for the mind, then the prequels are the worlds first visual laxative.

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Also, are you planning on upgrading the clock in the C2EX or is the on board one good enough? What is the Runco video scaler mentioned? I thought all of those video scalers put out progressive for use on projectors, not interlaced, or did you mod it for a more pure interlaced output?

 

Regarding the clock i will probably try the 28.125mhz low ppm and jitter ones i can find on a standalone card with its own powersupply. I got enough Ps laying around from old video procs. This clock is pretty important since it decides how precise the D/A conversion (after basic TBC) is and will impact final image quality.

The Runco is a Vfc-4404 from 1999, 20k retail. 25 pounds. Has been extensively modded, did some hard surface mount bypass on the 3D-Y/C card with silver mica caps. Removed fine noise a bit and brought out more warmth and analog feel to the final picture from s-video (monitor out, found it very nice when looking at solid reds and they are more like dvd (thanks to many chips working together to improve chroma bandwidth). It was originally a full scaler yes but the output cards has been removed and motherboard changed to one that is just a doubler with many fewer chips and regulators. Now it only does 5xBnc composite input and 1xS-video output. Will also try a very powerful Proc amp, Elite video Bvp plus for the pre SE sets to see if i can color-correct (JSC especially) and fix it up before input on the DC-30

On the DC30+ i will just have to wait and see, i got a card on the way from Canada. Looking at the hardware it certainly was ahead of its time, Professional design all the way. No wonder it was 1k$ ( Retail with software) back in the day. I most likely wont do audio capture myself since a friend of mine got a full fledged recording studio we will capture some Ac-3 streams from the 97 SE into his pro tools system and see. (via Hercules and a modded Meridian demodulator)

And yes i might try and do some tutorial on the modding im doing and done, i never talked about it before but i have gone pretty far in my quest for better picture. On my Denon LA-3500 (panasonic lx-900 based) i removed the laser glass lens itself and polished it with a special 3M glass polish compond till it looked like a diamond. I  thankfully dont have to do it again since the C2ex got an almost new pickup. Putting the unit in total level and on dampened spikes also got the picture a bit better.

 

Laserdisc for life, Denon LA3500, Sony C2ex/+\Mdp999 “Hercules”
if you want to contribute: http://paypal.me/LDRevive

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ChainsawAsh said:

Please do the 97 SE at some point - I might hate it, but it's certainly preferable to the 04 SE, and the fact that it's not the original version doesn't mean it shouldn't be preserved in the best possible quality as well.  And the more transfers (especially one from such a badass piece of equipment as yours seems to be), the better!

I second this. The more 97 SE transfers the better-this way they won't get lost in the Sarlacc's belly for 1,000 years.

 

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This is crazy (as in good crazy) how much work you have and are putting into this

I cant wait until you get all the hardware mods complete so that you can start to work on the films themselves and we can see how awesome the images will look

Keep it up!

Moth3r said: No, there is no video embedding option in this forum software (thank god!)

 

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Aleksbmw said:

did some hard surface mount bypass on the 3D-Y/C card with silver mica caps.

Nope, sorry, didn't understand that bit.

(thanks to many chips working together to improve chroma bandwidth).

Is this similar to the Faroudja bandwidth expansion?  If so, cool!

It was originally a full scaler yes but the output cards has been removed and motherboard changed to one that is just a doubler with many fewer chips and regulators.

Does this mean that it's still a progressive output?

Now it only does 5xBnc composite input and 1xS-video output.

I think Laserman mentioned something about the S-video and RCA connectors not giving accurate 75 ohms.  Would it be a good idea to use 2 separate BNC plugs + shielded cables instead of the standard S-Video connectors?

Will also try a very powerful Proc amp, Elite video Bvp plus for the pre SE sets to see if i can color-correct (JSC especially) and fix it up before input on the DC-30

I've seen posts from people doing that on another video forum which looked interesting.  Isn't there a danger of overdoing the adjustment which cannot be undone in post?

(via Hercules and a modded Meridian demodulator)

mmmmm, Meridian, mmmmmmmmm

in total level and on dampened spikes also got the picture a bit better.

Holy crap Batman!

If television is chewing gum for the mind, then the prequels are the worlds first visual laxative.

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Orinoco_Womble:

I will explain the bypass in a few pictures soon.

Yes the Runco uses several patents from Faroudja, funny it does it better than my Nrs. Less rainbowing etc.

No it does not output progressive, the output boards has been removed. Only the 3D processed analog video via S-video.

After looking at options im going to modify all s-video connections to screw on metal 75 ohm type found on s-video.com, will use even better cables tho. Twin dual shielded 75ohm Rg59.

 

Laserdisc for life, Denon LA3500, Sony C2ex/+\Mdp999 “Hercules”
if you want to contribute: http://paypal.me/LDRevive