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LOTR: The Rings of Power Spoiler Thread — Page 2

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Frickin’ blacks, feminists, and queers. They all need to go back to Africa, the kitchen, and the closet. Tolkien is for the white, super-straight ubermensch. Cleanse Hollywood of degenerate art. Deus vult.

“We are punished by our sins, not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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Getting back on track, I really think that one of the simplest edits would be to cut the bullying from the opening sequence.

You could start the same, even include the other kids not believing that the boat could sail, but then instead of the rock throwing, cut straight to Finrod saying “It was a good boat.” I’d also suggest trimming his line about not always being there, since it foreshadows too much. Instead, go from “you must learn to discern them yourself” to saying that their parents need them to head home.

Small changes; big difference in keeping “paradise” feeling like paradise.

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Superweapon VII said:

Frickin’ blacks, feminists, and queers. They all need to go back to Africa, the kitchen, and the closet. Tolkien is for the white, super-straight ubermensch. Cleanse Hollywood of degenerate art. Deus vult.

Correct. Unless they contribute to the actual story line… which in this case. They don’t.

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vranir said:

Getting back on track, I really think that one of the simplest edits would be to cut the bullying from the opening sequence.

You could start the same, even include the other kids not believing that the boat could sail, but then instead of the rock throwing, cut straight to Finrod saying “It was a good boat.” I’d also suggest trimming his line about not always being there, since it foreshadows too much. Instead, go from “you must learn to discern them yourself” to saying that their parents need them to head home.

Small changes; big difference in keeping “paradise” feeling like paradise.

I really like this idea. The bullying felt out of place to the story, but the scenery was so beautiful!

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

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dgraham414, I had the same feeling. The bullying felt odd, reminded me of the Vulcans teasing young Spock in Star Trek 2009. Also, this contradicts Galadriel’s later statements about how wonderful and happy she was in Valinor. It feels like this should be what the Shire was to the Hobbits.

Anyone seen Episode 3 yet? This show is fucking great, not perfect, but way better than I was expecting.

Can’t tell if Superweapon VII is being sarcastic, I’m guessing so? Either way, TheHutt70, just keep digging.

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poppasketti said:

Anyone seen Episode 3 yet? This show is fucking great, not perfect, but way better than I was expecting.

Episode 3 was really good, especially the stuff with Arondir. Definitely my favorite episode so far. My two biggest complains about the episode are that there wasn’t enough Durin-Elrond interaction for my liking and that they had to end on a cliff-hanger again.

Your thread will make a fine addition to my collection.

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poppasketti said:

Can’t tell if Superweapon VII is being sarcastic, I’m guessing so?

Absolutely.

I recognize tokenism as a problem in Hollywood, but the rank toxicity spewed by the anti-SJWs is not a justified resposnse.

“We are punished by our sins, not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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Bit of a general trivia question here and not necessarily related to the show, but does anyone know why the series of Great Rings goes 1, 3, 7, 9? By this I mean, why is there no set of five rings of power?

From the Silmarillion, it is said that the Elves made many rings of power under the watchful eye of Sauron, and he himself made the One Ring in secret to rule the others. After he did this the elves hid away three of the rings of power for themselves, while Sauron eventually came to possess many others. From these he gave seven to the Dwarf Lords and nine to the Lords of Men.

So in my understanding the rings of power had varying abilities and all but the One Ring were Elven, presumably to be used by the Elves alone until their corruption. But this means that Tolkien could have had Sauron give any number of rings to those whom he wanted to bring to his side. Sauron could have given five rings to the Dwarf Lords and seven to men, or if it is important for there to be seven Dwarven Kingdoms, he could have given five to men and seven to the Dwarves.

Why this avoidance of the number five?

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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My understanding of the numbering is really a matter of circumstance. Sauron was able to steal 16 rings from the elves and his thought was the enslave the dwarves. He gave as many rings to the dwarves as they would take, but the One Ring had no power over them, just made them more greedy and desiring if riches.

So, with all that he had left, the Nine, he gave them to men. And that was when the rings actually worked and the Kings became Wraiths.

I don’t know, maybe Hal9000 has a better understanding of this than I

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

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It’s awfully quite in this thread so please tell me, what are your meteor man theorys?

I for one hope that he‘ll be an original character, but if I had to choose from any of the existing characters, then I would like him to be Tom Bombadil, although it wouldn’t make any sense and for that reason it surely won’t happen.
But I would really like to learn about his character and simply having him on screen would be extremely cool.

Your thread will make a fine addition to my collection.

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I want him to be a blue wizard, but I expect that we are getting the story of Gandalf first meeting Hobbits.

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I hope to see the blue wizards making an appearance in RoP and it would make some sense canonically because they arrived earlier than the other istari, but I don’t think the stranger will turn out to be one of them (where is the other one?).
However now that I think of it, is it stated somewhere that only five istari were send to middle earth? He could be the sixth, who fell fighting Sauron or a Dragon or Balrog for that matter 😉.

But I am afraid that you’re right and he’ll turn out to be Gandalf.

Your thread will make a fine addition to my collection.

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dgraham414 said:

Not to add fuel to the fire and run away, but the LOTR trilogy ain’t 100% Tolkien faithful either. Faramir’s character was completely changed, entire chunks of the book were removed, and rolls were completely swapped out.

I wouldn’t be surprised that if those movies came out today the outcry would be massive. I can almost see the YouTube thumbnails photoshopping Greta Thunberg’s face over Arwen and Eowyen.

Conversely, if this show came out in 2008, I challenge the notion that the backlash would be the same.

The cry for Tolkien purism may be true to some, the PJ movies had that cry (although so quiet in the discourse) but it just seems like a shield to criticize diverse casting and female main characters.

If your claim is that it’s “not Tolkien’s story,” then you probably shouldn’t be watching any LOTR adaptation.

This is cope. Book purists were extremely critical of the movies at the time, including Christopher Tolkien himself. It’s in hindsight that a lot of people recognized that they did a good job being as faithful as they were, but there’s still plenty of people that don’t feel that way. Faramir is a big sticking point. So is Aragorn being unsure of himself as king. No one ever thought anything negative about Eowyn because she was accurately portrayed, and so was Galadriel. Arwen had a slightly bigger role and some people didn’t like that Glorfindel was replaced, but overall it wasn’t a huge deal because everything else was still accurate.

No one has a problem with Galadriel as a main character. The thing is that she’s being forced into an action hero role that doesn’t suit her. Her complexity and subtlety was reduced to a simple revenge story. She’s arguably one of the more interesting and morally gray characters in the series along with the other Noldor, but you wouldn’t know it. She’s supposed to have some hubris and try to build up her own realm, and she’s known more as a witch or sorceress who enchants people and naturally draws them to herself. She’s not just a blonde woman with a sword.

As for the ethnic thing, LOTR is a story based on Medieval Europe and the perspective of those peoples. That makes modern people uncomfortable, but it shouldn’t. There are nonwhite people in Middle Earth and they tend to ally with Sauron, but the REASONS they ally with Sauron are largely a history of colonialism and exploitation by the “white” Numenorians. You could easily make that into a great, diverse story with modern themes depicting the Haradrim and Easterling cultures with more complexity and some characters that are heroes, along with their tragic persecution by both Sauron and the men of the west. Gondor and Rohan are not inherently good in the written LOTR. Two important story points are made out of Rohan’s harsh treatment of the Dunlendings whose land they took, and the nonwhite Druedain, who they apparently hunted like animals. You could even have the Druedain instead of the Harfoots/Hobbits, and they would all be black or aboriginal.
You could do something similar with the elves and dwarves as well.
When everything on screen just looks like the modern US, you lose any of that complexity. It takes you out of the story immediately and you’re reminded that it’s a 2022 TV show on Amazon getting marketed to as broad an audience as possible instead of a fictional world with its own history and cultures.

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Superweapon VII said:

Frickin’ blacks, feminists, and queers. They all need to go back to Africa, the kitchen, and the closet. Tolkien is for the white, super-straight ubermensch. Cleanse Hollywood of degenerate art. Deus vult.

what a glorious strawman

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Vladius said:

dgraham414 said:

Not to add fuel to the fire and run away, but the LOTR trilogy ain’t 100% Tolkien faithful either. Faramir’s character was completely changed, entire chunks of the book were removed, and rolls were completely swapped out.

I wouldn’t be surprised that if those movies came out today the outcry would be massive. I can almost see the YouTube thumbnails photoshopping Greta Thunberg’s face over Arwen and Eowyen.

Conversely, if this show came out in 2008, I challenge the notion that the backlash would be the same.

The cry for Tolkien purism may be true to some, the PJ movies had that cry (although so quiet in the discourse) but it just seems like a shield to criticize diverse casting and female main characters.

If your claim is that it’s “not Tolkien’s story,” then you probably shouldn’t be watching any LOTR adaptation.

This is cope. Book purists were extremely critical of the movies at the time, including Christopher Tolkien himself. It’s in hindsight that a lot of people recognized that they did a good job being as faithful as they were, but there’s still plenty of people that don’t feel that way. Faramir is a big sticking point. So is Aragorn being unsure of himself as king.

Something that I’m surprised doesn’t get mentioned is how in the Extended version of ROTK, Aragorn literally decapitates an unarmed messenger. This is so far from the book’s portrayal of Aragorn as a noble king that it’s honestly shocking, and for me counts as character assassination. Consider the original after the Mouth of Sauron speaks:

"Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other’s eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced by a blow. “I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!” he cried.

This is the bearing of the ideal king. And so much more power in restraint!

My point is, the films are no untouchable masterpieces, and they’re allowed to take liberties, even ones I vehemently disagree with. I think it’s more productive to approach these adaptations and flights of fancy where they are and in the context of their time, just like the books themselves. And while it’s good and right to point out where they fall short, it’s also good to recognize where they strive to do justice to their material, and in many ways, especially with regards to production, the new series so far succeeds.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I’m only on the third episode, but I have to say I strongly dislike the show. There are just things happening here and there and they cut from scene to scene every time something almost happens. Also the wokeness just stinks through pretty much in every scene, it’s hard to see what is actually happening as you can only see corporates doing the same paint by numbers and ticking every woke point. The only thing I can say is that it looks good as a TV show (as it should), but other than that this is just a big pile of garbage.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Vladius said:

Superweapon VII said:

Frickin’ blacks, feminists, and queers. They all need to go back to Africa, the kitchen, and the closet. Tolkien is for the white, super-straight ubermensch. Cleanse Hollywood of degenerate art. Deus vult.

what a glorious strawman

I have zero patience for anti-SJWs. You can have legitimate grievances with Hollywood “progressivism” and express yourself accordingly. But if you start dropping “woke” pejoratively, spouting conservative rhetoric with no nuance, I’m taking the kid gloves off.

“We are punished by our sins, not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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I’m still enjoying the series. My complaints are still primarily about personal preference with the style of storytelling (too many parallel plot threads). There are lots of things to nitpick, but I also think that very few matter in the grand scheme of the events being depicted. That said, I think that Vladius raises some excellent ideas about different ways that this project could have been approached and is one of the more fully fledged pushbacks I’ve seen.

I’m absolutely loving the amount of breakdowns available each week. The Tolkien Professor’s “Rings and Realms” show on YouTube in particular makes me feel like I’m back in college as an English major studying some of my favorite texts again.

I’d continue to rate it more highly than The Hobbit trilogy but lower than the LOTR trilogy. I’m most interested in seeing what fan-edit versions we get at the end of this season and five years from now, also what a new Fellowship prologue might look like incorporating footage from this series’ portrayal of the forging of the rings and the last alliance.

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I loved this most recent episode! Everything with Elrond and Durin is just MWAH so good.

I’m not sure how I’m feeling about Adar. I’m pretty sure that he’s not Sauron at all, but just some elf, but then also like… why? On that storyline though, the slow-motion run through the forest was a little much. It felt so dramatic for nothing to happen. Definitely should be sped up in any eventual edit.

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

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Vladius said:

When everything on screen just looks like the modern US, you lose any of that complexity. It takes you out of the story immediately and you’re reminded that it’s a 2022 TV show on Amazon getting marketed to as broad an audience as possible instead of a fictional world with its own history and cultures.

It may take you out of the story immediately, but please do not speak for everyone.

First of all, while Tolkien wrote this as a kind of mythology for England, he didn’t like allegory and so we don’t need to find real-world parallels to justify casting non-white people in this show. And we certainly shouldn’t use black people to represent those that primarily stood with evil in some odd attempt at nuance.

Skin color does not play an important role in the story, but the racial structure and frictions are laid out pretty clearly (Elves, men, dwarves…etc). Tolkien’s writings obviously don’t paint these tensions as a positive but simply a reality, and he champions the moments when these peoples come together.

I find it endlessly disheartening that in a fantasy world that posits the themes of fellowship and faith that a modern audience cannot be trusted to embrace inclusivity in its appearance.

And those that are nauseatingly railing against “wokeness” seem to have no issue with the actor other than that they are black. That’s not good enough. You seem distracted by a perceived agenda behind casting a non-white person, when really you should ask yourself “why not cast a non-white person?”

And if Tolkien truly would roll over in his grave over diverse casting, as some have claimed, then perhaps he is not worth the reverence he is given. Based on his writing, however, I do not believe that to be the case.