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Knights of the Old Republic 1 vs 2. Which do you like more?

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My friend and I are on opposite side on this and I was curious if anyone had thoughts that might give us some outside opinions.

Thanks!

Killing threads with Cynicism since 2003

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Kotor II with the TSLCRM 

Better gameplay

Slightly better graphics

Better OVERALL Story

And a great plot twist doesn't equate to a better story. Morality was used more efficiently and things didn't seem as Black and White as it did in the first game. Also Kreia had good character motivation while Malak's wasn't anything beyond lust for power. 

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I think I enjoyed playing the second one more, but it really can't exist without the first, so I'm hesitant to say it was better. KOTOR II is really sort of a deconstruction of KOTOR. KOTOR II is way more interesting, which is what I tend to value in a story like this, but the first one is more perfectly realized, if I'm making any sense. It's very late here.

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Btw, I prefer KotOR 1.

KotOR II was written by pretentious hacks who despise the spirit of Star Wars. The "story" is a disjointed, thematically-confused mess, same as the level designs, "plot" progression, and squad-mates.

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I would go for KOTOR1 easily. The story and characters feel more "Star Wars" like.

I prefer the setting and planets in KOTOR1 as well. They are much more visually beautiful and this a huge factor for me.

KOTOR2 has too many ridiculous concepts to my taste (ridiculously powerful villain, immortal villain, etc.).

I would however have much more trouble to pick a favourite between KOTOR1 and original SWTOR story-related content.

真実

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imperialscum said:

I would go for KOTOR1 easily. The story and characters feel more "Star Wars" like.

I prefer the setting and planets in KOTOR1 as well. They are much more visually beautiful and this a huge factor for me.

KOTOR2 has too many ridiculous concepts to my taste (ridiculously powerful villain, immortal villain, etc.).

I would however have much more trouble to pick a favourite between KOTOR1 and original SWTOR story-related content.

 I concur completely. The villain in KOTOR is to me the best since Vader, while in KOTOR II they villains are ridicilous. Also the sequel was so rushed that the ending came out of nowhere when I played it while the first one just became more and more epic and interesting until then end.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

imperialscum said:

I would go for KOTOR1 easily. The story and characters feel more "Star Wars" like.

I prefer the setting and planets in KOTOR1 as well. They are much more visually beautiful and this a huge factor for me.

KOTOR2 has too many ridiculous concepts to my taste (ridiculously powerful villain, immortal villain, etc.).

I would however have much more trouble to pick a favourite between KOTOR1 and original SWTOR story-related content.

 I concur completely. The villain in KOTOR is to me the best since Vader, while in KOTOR II they villains are ridicilous. Also the sequel was so rushed that the ending came out of nowhere when I played it while the first one just became more and more epic and interesting until then end.

I didn't like Malak so much. I mean yeah he was pretty good at Dun Möch but the fact that he fired upon Revan's ship instead of taking the mantel of Dark Lord from him by way of combat made him a coward in my eyes. Also his motivation was generic. Malak wanted to take over the Galaxy while Kreia wanted to destroy The Force because of the dominion it had over all life. But I will say that Malak was a far better villain than Nihilus or Sion.

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I always thought of Malak as a bad attempt at doing a Vader character, with his silly ways and dialogues (not to mantion his ridicolous over-the-top apprentice!). I look at KOTOR2's characters as fresh and new, with their own motivations (unlike in KOTOR1), with Kreia probably being the best one in the cast. In the end, I know KOTOR2's darksiders are "overpowered" compared to the OT's, but I say that the balance is kept if you consider that their power is the reason behind their own sudden death, and you could say that Force-users learned from their mistakes since then.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Nihilus was an anti-character. His only motivation (I hesitate to apply that word to him) was to eat the Force. He's shockingly pointless other than to explain why there are so few Jedi in the game, and to develop Visas Marr's backstory.

Sion... uses the Dark Side to hold his broken body together. I guess he serves some purpose in symbolizing a person that depends entirely on the Force, a balance to someone like Atton Rand who survives by his blaster aim and smarts. But the writers never really make anything of it.

Kreia's aspiration of destroying the Force, or teaching the galaxy that living without the Force can be a good thing, sounds all poetic and unique, but it's unobtainable to her. She's a crazy person with a crazy dream. The galaxy was never in danger from her by the time KotOR 2 happens. 

The three villains are retroactively meaningful, but their relevance is already over by the time the Exile even meets them. That's what I mean when I say KotOR 2 was disjointed and thematically confused.

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Harrold Andraste said:

The galaxy was never in danger from her by the time KotOR 2 happens. 

The three villains are retroactively meaningful, but their relevance is already over by the time the Exile even meets them

None of this is true...at least concerning Kreia it isn't. She mentors The Exile and helps him/her reestablish his/her connection with The Force. Without that none of the events in the game would have happened. Not only that she manipulated quite a few people into helping the exile. Without that The Exile would have certainly failed. Whether you destroy the remaining Jedi or save them they still die which only helps her cause. Lastly, knowing she didn't kill The Exile in the rebuilt Jedi enclave she knew he/she would come after her which would put him in the path of Atris, Nihilus and Sion. Kreia is like The Joker in The Dark Knight. She made moves and got the plot moving and was ultimately the center of everything. 

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I don't know what that has to do with what I was talking about.

Kreia helps the Exile reestablish their connection to the Force and led him/her to fight Sion and Nihilus. So what? Vrook, Handle Bar Mustache, and the Iziz Jedi could train him/her, too. Matter of fact... they do. In the game. Before they ultimately gather together and try to exile the Exile again.

For all the damn difference it made, you could've had the Exile incidentally run into any ole Jedi at the beginning of the game to learn about/trigger their returning powers.

Kreia wants the Exile to kill the Jedi and Sith, then kill her, cuz she kinda both, then... that has something to do with destroying the Force and teaching the galaxy a non-Force lifestyle is good.

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Harrold Andraste said:

I don't know what that has to do with what I was talking about.

but their relevance is already over by the time the Exile even meets them

The galaxy was never in danger from her by the time KotOR 2 happens.

The way you phrased it made it seems like Kreia didn't do anything after she met The Exile. Also you said Kreia wasn't a threat to the galaxy when Kotor II happened even though that's when she was putting her plan into motion.

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Harrold Andraste said:

Kreia helps the Exile reestablish their connection to the Force and led her to fight Sion and Nihilus. So what? Vrook, Handle Bar Mustache, and the Iziz Jedi could train her, too.

But that's not the way it happened. What ended up happening was that Kreia help The Exile reestablish her connection with The Force. We're not talking about what ifs and what could have beens here. Also part of the reason they exiled Meetra was for the same reason Kreia took interest in her. Because The Exile was a wound in The Force. Not only that they saw The Exile as a rebel and they blamed him/her for Revan's fall. It's a bit of a stretch to say the Masters would have trained her. 

Also if it were't for Kreia The Exile would have died on the ship the game started out on. 

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The 'what if' is important insofar that we realize the "plot", what little there is, would be the exact same had you replaced Kreia with a generic bit character. And that the plot did nothing to actually serve Kreia's supposed plan. 

Actually... that goes to further prove the writers failed to write Kreia as a villain.

And I still want her scheme explained to me. The Exile being a wound in the Force and Nihilus as a black hole sounds like it could be used to exact some serious crap upon the galaxy, or possibly heighten the chances of nullifying the Force...... BUUUUT nothing close to that ever happens at all in the story.

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I wouldn't say Sion and Nihilus are pointless: from the in-game dialogues, I'd say they are a remainder to the Exile/player of what he/she can become in the worst case scenario, and they did it pretty well: I was legitimately afraid that my "wound" and my influence over people could've turned me into a Nihilus in the end (even if it's sadly impossible in the game).

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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The whole idea to "kill the force" is stupid, imo.

真実

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Harrold Andraste said:

The 'what if' is important insofar that we realize the "plot", what little there is, would be the exact same had you replaced Kreia with a generic bit character. And that the plot did nothing to actually serve Kreia's supposed plan. 

Replacing Kreia with someone else would only work if that character did the exact same things Kreia did and was after the same goal as she was. The plot doesn't move without her. Also like I said Kreia brought the deaths of the remaining Jedi, Atris, Nihilus and Sion. I'm not sure why you're downplaying her significance when she IS the center of everything. 

As it pertains to her plan I guess she gets The Exile to kill all of powerful Force Sensitives. Then maybe she convinces the exile of her plan and if The Exile refuses she subdues him/her and puts him/her in stasis. Then Kreia hunts down all of the lesser Force Wielders, kills them and then offs herself which kills The Exile in the process due to their Force bond. This wouldn't do much in the long run but her plan was at least something different than the whole "rule the galaxy" shit we've been accustomed to. I mean how many times have we been subjected to that same motivation? That's part of the reason why I couldn't dig Malak. I was expecting something different with him seeing as how the game took places thousands of years before the OT.

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The problem is clarity. It's implied that her plan might have worked if she killed herself at Malachor V. Why she doesn't is anyone's guess. The force bond isn't lethal. She died and Meetra was fine. Why was unclear.

She also knew Mira would be there when the time came and had the evil wookie bounty hunter waiting to hold her back from catching up with Meetra. Problem is that the Exile doesn't seem to know Mira is even there. The two never meet up. It's unclear how Mira even gets off Malachor since the Ebon Hawke is taken by the Exile.

Did she return to the ship? Did Meetra track her down before leaving? Hell in one cutscene we see the ship falling into the planet's core. How did we get it back? How many other party members are here?

Nothing is clear. Everything is hazy and open to interpretation. That isn't a strength in this case.

Killing threads with Cynicism since 2003

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Well I don't think anyone can argue that the ending was well....a mess. So many unanswered questions and it ended so abruptly. 

Also the only explanation I can muster about why The Exile didn't die when Traya died was that perhaps the Force bond they shared was broken when The Exile was betrayed at the Jedi Enclave. 

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I thought the same thing. Except if you kill Atris Traya contacts Meetra and warns that if she doesn't follow her she will kill herself at Malachor taking Meetra's life in the process.

Killing threads with Cynicism since 2003