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Knights of Ren Overhaul: Ideas for Fixing the KoR in TROS

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 (Edited)

This is a small thread to throw out ideas on how to make the Knights of Ren better in The Rise of Skywalker. . . .

Possible new story goals through added dialogue or otherwise might show the KoR:

  1. as more menacing and intimidating
  2. hate their former Master Skywalker
  3. are force users/force sensitive
  4. don’t like Ren’s obsession with Rey

heil palpatine.

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Gonna need footage from somewhere else to add to their screentime. Dubbing is easy, if you wanted to make them into actual characters.

Video games are probably the best bet right now since it’s unlikely we’ll see them on-screen ever again unless maybe Mandolorian reaches that era.

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Don’t see why this thread is necessary. There’s literally nothing you can do with them, their screentime is so minimal.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian,
TFA (Starlight), TLJ (Fallen Knight), TROS (Resurgence).
May the midichlorians be with you.

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I disagree. I personally would like to add new dialogue so the Knights of Ren are more menacing and have some gravitas. Below are a few ideas:

Pasaana Chewie Scene (two KoR watch Chewie in the desert):
Knight A: A friend of Luke’s.
Knight B: I get his teeth.

Kijimi Alley Scene (the KoR pause in an alley just after Rey and the gang passed nearby):
Knight A: No sign of her. No one’s talking.
Knight B: Burn it down. Just like the temple.
Knight C: No. Start killing all the women.

Exegol Ben Fight Scene (the KoR confront a weaponless Ben):
Knight A: Let’s take our time with him.
Knight B: Ready to join your father?

heil palpatine.

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That idea is potentially interesting, but I don’t see why it warrants an entirely new thread. This discussion could just be put in the existing ideas thread.

Plus, anytime someone tries to write dialogue for the Knights (including me), it ends up sounding incredibly cheesy. I think they might actually be better with no lines.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian,
TFA (Starlight), TLJ (Fallen Knight), TROS (Resurgence).
May the midichlorians be with you.

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I prefer to discuss it here so all the ideas for anyone’s edit are in one place and I or anyone can implement the changes without scrolling through pages and pages of unrelated shite. Feel free, of course, to do as you like though.

heil palpatine.

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Film The Rise of Kylo Ren comic and insert it into TFA and TLJ’s forcevisons and flashbacks.

end sarcasm But really though, it is beyond mind boggling that the story of Ben’s fall and the creation of his alternate persona was told exclusively in a comic. Just as bad as having Palpatine’s announcement of revenge in “fortnite”

PT: CoD/TAS/TCW/FotR(NCC)
OT: Reimagined/Revisited/…
ST: Starlight/Rekindled/Resurgence

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PT: CoD/TAS/TCW/FotR(NCC)
OT: Reimagined/Revisited/…
ST: Starlight/Rekindled/Resurgence

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The comic sucks, and I plan on ignoring its storyline. The KoR in my edit will be the students from the razed Jedi Temple.

heil palpatine.

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Delpheas said:

Film The Rise of Kylo Ren comic and insert it into TFA and TLJ’s forcevisons and flashbacks.

end sarcasm But really though, it is beyond mind boggling that the story of Ben’s fall and the creation of his alternate persona was told exclusively in a comic. Just as bad as having Palpatine’s announcement of revenge in “fortnite”

Right! What a great comic, too

reylo?

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krausfadr said:

The comic sucks, and I plan on ignoring its storyline. The KoR in my edit will be the students from the razed Jedi Temple.

Agreed, the comic was comically bad.
“Oh poor Ben, he didn’t kill the jedi at the temple, and the one that he did kill was only by accident!
The poor boy did nothing wrong!”
🤮

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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idir_hh If you want to, let me know what you think about dialogue additions such as the ones I listed above. My goals are to:

  1. make the KoR menacing
  2. hint at their connection to their former Master Skywalker
  3. give people a reason to enjoy watching their deaths

heil palpatine.

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I think the added dialogue is a good idea, at least it gives hints of the kinda characters that are underneath the masks.
I like the dialogue choices but maybe give it a more comedic touch, “It’s luke’s walking carpet” - “I get the fur”-“I get the teeth”

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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idir_hh said:

krausfadr said:

The comic sucks, and I plan on ignoring its storyline. The KoR in my edit will be the students from the razed Jedi Temple.

Agreed, the comic was comically bad.
“Oh poor Ben, he did’nt kill the jedi at the temple, and the one that he did kill was by accident!
The poor boy did nothing wrong!”
🤮

That comic was an epic fail! They bent over backwards to make Ben a misunderstood white knight. They totally abandon TLJ hint of them being Luke’s former students which I thought made so much more sense. The Knight of Ren were wasted potential like most of the sequel trilogy…sadly!

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Hmm, the Knights of Ren are a tough nut to crack.

On the one hand, Luke’s dialogue in TLJ about Ben taking a handful of Luke’s students with him made me think the other Knights were Luke’s other students. On the other hand, I think it would be weird to depict them as such when TROS does nothing to suggest that. They apparently were Jedi students, but none of them wield lightsabers or ever display any Force abilities. Plus, you’re left with the weird conclusion that Ben was responsible for their turn, but did nothing to help turn them back and instead killed them all when it wasn’t convenient for him anymore. If Ben even had one line on Exegol, trying to turn them back, that probably would’ve sufficed.

If the Knights were just Sith or dark side cultists who follow Kylo Ren because he is the grandson of Darth Vader, it would probably be a cleaner explanation that doesn’t leave you scratching your head as much. They dress the way they do because they worship the Sith, and of course they would choose Palpatine over him once he returned. Sure, maybe it isn’t as interesting as the Knights being some of Luke’s other fallen students, but it would be a stretch to make that clear, with what little material we have to work with.

BUT, since I hate myself, I’ll try to lay out some of my own thoughts for how one could try and make the Knights of Ren be fallen Jedi as clear as possible.

First of all, here are some suggestions for dialogue. I thought the Knights would be a good way to explicitly establish Kylo’s feelings for Rey early on, as well as be a way to show the Knights feel like Kylo has betrayed them for her. Some extra dialogue could hint at their force sensitivity and their relationship to Luke.

Mask reforging -
Knight: Your feelings for the girl are a weakness. Bury them deep. Then we’ll bury her. (or, referring to the mask) This will remind you of who you really are.

On Kijimi -
Knight: They’re close… I can sense them.
or Knight: The girl is close… I can sense her.

On Exegol -
Knight: So, you were seduced by the girl.
I think it would be great if Ben could say something here, like, “Don’t.” “Stop!” “Join me.” “No.” At least give Ben some semblance of an attempt to talk to them.
Knight: Sidious has offered us more power than you ever could. (or) Say hello to Luke for us.

I may have mentioned this on the TROS main thread, but I think if you were to make them Luke’s students, it might also be worth trying to make some of them carry lightsaber-type weapons. If they were former Jedi, it makes sense for some of them to have Jedi-esque weapons.

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Charles Soule probably knew that Ben was getting redeemed in TROS, hence the Rise of Kylo Ren not featuring any child murder and retconning TLJ’s vague implication that he personally slaughtered all his former classmates. The extended canon materials always gave quite a sympathetic view of his childhood, but I doubt anything pre-Rise of Kylo Ren was written with his redemption explicitly in mind. I imagine that with the comic Lucasfilm wanted to explicitly steer away from making him seem like some kind of school shooter parallel. I mean, it’s bad enough with Anakin - I’m not sure if Vader’s redemption would have been popular if ROTJ had come out immediately after ROTS!

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RogueLeader thank you for your ideas! They are perfect, just the kind of input I was looking for.

EDIT: and don’t hate yourself.

DOUBLE EDIT: And according to the comics I believe none of the KoR were Jedi students; they were basically an outlaw gang with a leader named Ren who was not Kylo Ren. Just. Plain. Stupid.

I’ll depict them as if they were all students and turned to the dark side under Kylo Ren. I would love for someone to vfx one of them with a lightsaber; but even without that I’m ok with them forsaking the Jedi/Sith traditions, including lightsabers. It makes sense for their gang and is one more wedge between them and Kylo Ren.

heil palpatine.

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sade1212 said:

Charles Soule probably knew that Ben was getting redeemed in TROS, hence the Rise of Kylo Ren not featuring any child murder and retconning TLJ’s vague implication that he personally slaughtered all his former classmates. The extended canon materials always gave quite a sympathetic view of his childhood, but I doubt anything pre-Rise of Kylo Ren was written with his redemption explicitly in mind. I imagine that with the comic Lucasfilm wanted to explicitly steer away from making him seem like some kind of school shooter parallel. I mean, it’s bad enough with Anakin - I’m not sure if Vader’s redemption would have been popular if ROTJ had come out immediately after ROTS!

But that undoes a lot of Kylo’s arc. He can’t get redeemed if he wasn’t bad in the first place. You may like it, but in my opinion it’s basically the sequel trilogy equivalent of Greedo shooting first.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian,
TFA (Starlight), TLJ (Fallen Knight), TROS (Resurgence).
May the midichlorians be with you.

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Glad you like it krausfadr! And thanks for the positivity.

I think they could have depicted the fall of the temple in a way that was still sympathetic toward Ben, but didn’t involve a Force storm blowing up the temple.

Back when I thought the Knights of Ren were some of Luke’s students, I pictured a scenario where the commotion at Ben’s hut led to a scene around the debris, where the other students would gather around to see what happened. Ben would come out in a daze saying Luke tried to kill him. Many of the students wouldn’t believe him, and they would accuse him of killing Luke. Some of Ben’s friends would take his side, and this argument would culminate into a fight, where one student kills another. Suddenly, it would turn into an all out brawl, student fighting student. Before Ben even has a chance to recompose himself, he has his lightsaber drawn again, defending himself from attacks, and eventually being the one to strike back in rage and anger. After Luke is KO, it basically turns into Lord of the Flies with lightsabers, but things devolve in a matter of minutes rather than days, because everyone thinks Ben killed Luke. Ben catches the Temple on fire, and once everyone is dead except Ben and his surviving allies, they leave to go seek sanctuary with the only person Ben thinks won’t judge them: Snoke.

So when Luke wakes up, this is why he finds the bodies of many of his students strewn across the field (something the comic doesn’t account for), with his temple burning in the distance. As Luke collects the bodies, he probably notes that the bodies of Ben’s closest friends were unaccounted for, deducing that they likely joined him in the slaughter.

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Change Luke’s line in TLJ to read, “He left with a handful of my [worst] students.”

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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Hal 9000 said:

Change Luke’s line in TLJ to read, “He left with a handful of my [worst] students.”

Lololololol

heil palpatine.

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RogueLeader said:

Back when I thought the Knights of Ren were some of Luke’s students, I pictured a scenario where the commotion at Ben’s hut led to a scene around the debris, where the other students would gather around to see what happened. Ben would come out in a daze saying Luke tried to kill him…

I thought they were supposed to be his students when I first watched TROS; I was blissfully ignorant of the comics. All I wanted was to see the KoR killing Ren’s enemies with lightsabers.

heil palpatine.

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Frankly, them being Luke’s former students never made much sense to me; I always assumed they were a shady group that Ben fell in with, probably before his fall even happened.

But I definitely did assume Ben was the one who killed all the students, so hearing that the comic does away with that idea is…disappointing.

a trolling bantha

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I think it’s more effective that Ben and his friends start a shady group rather than Ben stumbles across outlaws who can barely use the force. These wimps would never have really fought Ren at the end of TROS; they would have known one force choke and it’s over for them.

heil palpatine.