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Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Edit Suggestions — Page 30

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 (Edited)

My color palette:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/sdevore1138/temple%20of%20doom/palette1.jpg?t=1240024515

Slightly desaturated.  A little darker.  A little more contrast.

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 (Edited)

Looks awesome, ID.

I vote for keeping Pancho Villa.  I think I want Mutt to have a little potential if he goes on his own adventures.  More importantly, the Pancho reference is something the audience is familiar with and it helps establish this movie in the real world.  It just feels more 'real' with the line intact in a movie that really needs all the reality it can get.

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All right, Sluggo has spoken.  Pancho Villa stays.  :D

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Wow, that was easy.  Only if I was as persuasive in other threads! :p

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InfoDroid said:

My color palette:

 

Slightly desaturated.  A little darker.  A little more contrast.

 

Hey Infodroid,

From what I can tell the color looks good. As for the arrangement ... just a thought ... I think the B&W Raiders bit is an interesting idea because of the warehouse tie in, but I wonder if putting the Orellana's Cradle scene next might disconnect the Raiders bit from the warehouse scene a little too much.

And if I'm being honest, I'm not sure I'm crazy about starting with that later scene and then saying "a few days earlier". What I do agree with is the need to jump right into an adventure like the other movies, which makes me wonder how it would work if you faded out from the B&W Raiders scene to black for like 5 seconds and then jump directly to the warehouse doors opening and Indy walking in with Spalko and company. If this scene is edited to run a bit tighter then after the rocket sled, when Indy is running off, it could then cut to the FBI interrogation scene. Then the interrogation could be intercut with the scene leading up to them walking into the warehouse, using a few voiceovers and only what little is needed of the original opening scene of the movie before entering the warehouse to give some context to the scene. In fact you might just be able to use snippets of the opening scene as responses to FBI questions. FBI suggests he was working with Russians, you very briefly intercut him being pulled out of the trunk and thrown to the ground and all the guns being pointed at him. All in all we/you try to make it seem like he was acting more against his will then the movie currently makes it seem ... since in the actual movie he goes along fairly easily.

At the end of the interrogation you go directly into the school scene, as the movie currently does. We thus avoid any MAJOR jumps in time, don't need any subtitles saying "so many days earlier or later", still start the movie with the adventure right off the bat, and don't lose any necessary information from the mostly unnecessary intro.

What do you think?

Ryan

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Oh, I'm also wondering if there might be a way to edit the warehouse scene to make it seem like Indy catches a glimpse of the ark when the crate it's in breaks open. It would be more of a payoff after the B&W Raiders intro.

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InfoDroid, this radical re-structuring edit you are working on sounds terrific.

Incorporating Gaith's inspired idea of using that particular 'black and white' footage from Raider's ending is truly a terrific way to introduce things, before leading up to seeing the 'US Warehouse' once again at some point....  That will make a fantastic start to a radical edit, and I only wish the ACTUAL movie had worked this 'brief reminder' concept in too, in some way....

And the 'intercutting' of certain scenes with the 'interrogation' sequence is a great way to go too.

HeKs has also come up with some excellent ideas about just WHAT could actually be intercut at this point, and I really like them as well.  Food for thought indeed.

Whatever you decide, the concept of intercutting SOMETHING with the interrogation stuff is brilliant in itself, and this already has the makings of a fascinating edit.  The colour correction is a big bonus too.

Good luck with this project, as a heavily re-structured version will be VERY appealing.

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HeKS said:   From what I can tell the color looks good. As for the arrangement ... just a thought ... I think the B&W Raiders bit is an interesting idea because of the warehouse tie in, but I wonder if putting the Orellana's Cradle scene next might disconnect the Raiders bit from the warehouse scene a little too much.

HeKs, I chose Orellana's Cradle as the first scene for three reasons:

1) It's very close to the tone and feel of the opening scene of both Raiders and my Temple of Doom edit.  The pace is perfect for the credit sequence.  It slowly draws you in to the movie.

2) It sets up the whole Crystal Skull plot and poses the question to the audience "What IS this thing"?

and 3) (and this is an important one) The stone spire in the graveyard is the ONLY triangular-shaped object in the entire movie that you could fade into from the Paramount logo, which is an essential thing to have....other than the "gopher mound" which I refuse to use.  That was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

So, I appreciate your suggestions, HeKs.  They're good ones, and I understand what you're saying.  But, I think I'll be keeping this arrangement.  It works for me.  Keep in mind also, that film flow and music flow is also a big factor in making these decisions. 

As far as the titles for "a few days earlier" are concerned...I'm a big fan of Oliver Stone, so I've always enjoyed mixing up the timeline on movies.  Quentin Tarantino's strategy also is a big inspiration.  It's all about "rate of revelation" to the audience.  It's about building questions in their mind and then choosing when to let them in on the answer. 

George Lucas' strategy has always been to lead the audience from point A to point B.  First people talk about what they're going to do.  Then we watch them do it.  I try to limit that as much as possible, and for me, it makes it so much more interesting to watch.  And to avoid making Indy look dumb, the audience should never know more than the main character knows, except for a few Hitchcockian exceptions.  This film suffers from a lot of that.  So, personally, I'd rather jump around the timeline a bit and "suffer through" a couple title cards rather than be bored to tears by an A to B to C storyline which is dull to begin with.

 

Imperial Fighter said:

InfoDroid, this radical re-structuring edit you are working on sounds terrific.

 

Good luck with this project, as a heavily re-structured version will be VERY appealing.

 

Thanks!  And yeah, my edits are normally referred to as "radical" because, while I have respect for the material that has come previously in the series and I beleive in keeping it in the same spirit of what has come before (especially Raiders) I don't really feel the need to be restrained by the traditional Lucas template. 

The way I see it, there are two kinds of fan-edits, there are those that edit annoying bits and pieces out of otherwise good movies to make them less annoying and more enjoyable.  And then there are those that try to create a new experience out of the same material.  Mine usually end up falling into the second category, because I enjoy the challenge of trying to be creative with it.  I think, however, the world needs both kinds.  I'll be the first to admit, my versions are not for everyone.  People who know my edits, know to expect something different.  But, then again, some people like Indy 4 except for a few scenes or whatever and that's fine...Personally, I think it's deeply, deeply, flawed and a radically bad movie calls for a radical edit.  :D  But, that's just my opinion.

 

--ID

 

 

 

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Nice work ID. Looking very promising. 

 

1.) I was wondering what liitle bits of cheesy dialog and failed attempts at humor you were looking to cut. 

2.) What are your thoughts on the awkward head spams when Indy is looking into the eyes of the skull and

3.) What are your thoughts on OX? Do you plan on cutting his goofiness a good deal (dancing, all of the Henry Jones Jr.s, etc)

 

I ask mainly because I cut all of these things and was wondering if it would save you sometime if I sent you what I had so far? Might be different formats I guess, but since I cut the cheesiness (haha...) already it could at least serve as a quick guideline if you intend on doing the same. Lord knows this film has a load of Lucas cheese in it. Cutting it really helps the tone.

List of propsed changes to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Kingdom-of-the-Crystal-Skull-Edit-Suggestions/topic/9732/

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InfoDroid said:
HeKS said:   From what I can tell the color looks good. As for the arrangement ... just a thought ... I think the B&W Raiders bit is an interesting idea because of the warehouse tie in, but I wonder if putting the Orellana's Cradle scene next might disconnect the Raiders bit from the warehouse scene a little too much.

HeKs, I chose Orellana's Cradle as the first scene for three reasons:

1) It's very close to the tone and feel of the opening scene of both Raiders and my Temple of Doom edit.  The pace is perfect for the credit sequence.  It slowly draws you in to the movie.

2) It sets up the whole Crystal Skull plot and poses the question to the audience "What IS this thing"?

and 3) (and this is an important one) The stone spire in the graveyard is the ONLY triangular-shaped object in the entire movie that you could fade into from the Paramount logo, which is an essential thing to have....other than the "gopher mound" which I refuse to use.  That was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

So, I appreciate your suggestions, HeKs.  They're good ones, and I understand what you're saying.  But, I think I'll be keeping this arrangement.  It works for me.  Keep in mind also, that film flow and music flow is also a big factor in making these decisions. 

As far as the titles for "a few days earlier" are concerned...I'm a big fan of Oliver Stone, so I've always enjoyed mixing up the timeline on movies.  Quentin Tarantino's strategy also is a big inspiration.  It's all about "rate of revelation" to the audience.  It's about building questions in their mind and then choosing when to let them in on the answer. 

George Lucas' strategy has always been to lead the audience from point A to point B.  First people talk about what they're going to do.  Then we watch them do it.  I try to limit that as much as possible, and for me, it makes it so much more interesting to watch.  And to avoid making Indy look dumb, the audience should never know more than the main character knows, except for a few Hitchcockian exceptions.  This film suffers from a lot of that.  So, personally, I'd rather jump around the timeline a bit and "suffer through" a couple title cards rather than be bored to tears by an A to B to C storyline which is dull to begin with.

 

Hey InfoDroid,

Just wanted to offer a few more thoughts. Obviously this is your edit and I respect that you'll do what you see fit, but the dialog may spark some ideas ... for both of us, since I'm hoping to do an edit too.

First of all, I get your points and I see how the Orellana's Cradle scene is a good option for the title credits and paramount logo fade, but I'm thinking that opening the movie with it will mess up the general pacing of the film. KOTCS is woefully short on scenes that feel like an Indy movie and the cradle scene is one of the few. By moving it to the start of the film to be closely followed by the opening warehouse scene will put two adventure scenes back to back and leave an incredibly slow chunk in the middle. The current placement of the cradle scene is one of the only things in the middle portion of the film that I perk up at when watching it. If it's moved to the front of the film there won't be anything between the motorcycle chase and the jungle chase.

Secondly, as the major reveal of the primary artifact of the film, I think this scenario is a little different than your TOD edit. Your TOD edit used the jungle scene in the middle of the film to set an Indy mood similar to Raiders, but it wasn't an action/adventure/mystery scene really and it didn't reveal anything - like a shankara stone - that was then going to take another 45 minutes of watching before we heard about it again and found out what it was ... if you see my point. In fact, thinking about it now, if it was possible I'd like to move the underground discovery of the skull nearer to the end of the film, but I think that would be too problematic.

As for jumping around in the timeline ... I don't have a general problem with doing that kind of thing or with using title cards to signal it. I'm just not crazy about the idea of major uses of it in an Indy movie ... and I'm thinking this particular jump is problematic for the reasons mentioned above.

As for the paramount logo ... is it possible the problem could be solved in the B&W Raiders scene ... maybe using a clip from the island where the ark is opened? This seems to me like a good way to incorporate the fade since in all the other movies the fade is the first bit of film you see, whereas it seems that if the cradle scene is used for the fade then we will first be seeing the clips from Raiders and THEN having the paramount fade, which I think will break up the flow of moving directly from Raiders into this one.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Either way I look forward to your edit.

Take care,
Ryan

 

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Heks, you make some really good points here - especially about the pacing. ID's edit WILL have a chase followed by a chase and that could be an issue. Interesting. 

But as far as using the island where the ark was opened, I think that would put too much emphasis on Raiders (which this movie is nowhere near in any fashion) and the Ark (which is featured for only 2 seconds). 

In fact, I'm curious (and excited) to see how opening with anything frmo Raiders is gonna work. Have to say though, ID is good. He's very very good. So if anyone could make it work...

List of propsed changes to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Kingdom-of-the-Crystal-Skull-Edit-Suggestions/topic/9732/

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Infodroid, please don't take this the wrong way (since everyone has their own tastes, and that's okay), but perhaps you should start your own thread.

The suggestions on this thread are largely for people that want to fix KotCS so it more resembles earlier Jones films.

Your previous ToD and LC edits have shown that you dislike the franchise in general.  It's sort of incompatible with the spirit of this thread.  I would be unhappy to see any of the people that were here earlier taking onboard any of your suggestions.

Again, this isn't meant to be an attack, I'm sure there's people that like your Indiana Jones edits, but I am not one of them.

But then again I feel last Crusade is better than Raiders... so what do I know.

Dr. M

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Dr. M is right.  I was just going to suggest that in my last post but forgot.  Sorry.  The conversation just kinda naturally evolved in this thread.  Didn't mean to clog it up.

I will correct you however, on the fact that I AM actually a big fan of the franchise.

 

--ID

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Dr. M, I can't speak for everyone here, but I for one have no trouble differentiating between ID's overhaul and an edit more like my own. We all agree that several scenes need attention and having a dialog about those scene in one location on this board is actually helpful in my opinion. ID's free to make his own thread of course if he wants, but I don't understand your reasoning for it.

I don't plan on changing the entire structure of the film, but I'm open to it. There are lots of folks here who love the idea and who love ID's previous work on  the Indy series. Work that shows to me a love and care for the series. Not a dislike exactly. 

(not to mention that ID's presence here has boosted this thread which helps me on my edit...)

And seriously? LC over ROTLA? (jk)

List of propsed changes to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Kingdom-of-the-Crystal-Skull-Edit-Suggestions/topic/9732/

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Here is the updated list of changes on my edit:

 

1.First of all, I did some color correction on the film as a whole. MUCH less green tint to everything and less bloom lighting. IOW, doesn’t look like a Barbara Walters interview anymore.

2. Increased volume of guns when Russians shoot guards.

3. Used the “not as easy as it used to be” line from the trailer.

 4. Cut Indy going cross eyed. Now we see Spalko put her hand to his head, but she goes right into you’re a hard man to read Dr. Jones. No use getting the move off to an awkward start. 

5. Made the bit where Spalko draws her sword on Indy less awkward – the way she cut Indy’s dialog off when she drew her sword and said you will help us find it always bugged me.

6. Magnetic gunpowder – I cut down on the amount of magic CGI gunpowder we see floating around the warehouse. Now Indy throws it, we see it drift in a certain direction (clear enough to follow), then we cut right to the group walking down the aisle. In fact, made little snips here and there to make the warehouse move a BIT quicker.

7. Cut Spalko asking what the point of this was. Seriously Spalko? You Indy JUST explained it to you. Now she just says don’t toy with me Dr. Jones. Works much better. 

8. Cut the peek at the alien. We see the container opening. We see everyone looking wowed, but not EXACLTY what it is that’s in there. 

9. Cut Indy saying “after all that time we spent spying blah blah blah. Now he just says thought we were friends mac.

10. Toyed with the “damn I thought that was closer” line. Trying to overlap it so that he says the last few words of the sentence AS we see the soldier get knocked out of the truck.

11. Minor fix makes Indy’s jeep burst through the crates more suddenly so that the group of soldiers don’t appear to be just standing there waiting on it. 

12. Increase volume of soldiers screaming as they get torched by the rocket sled. 

13. Cut Indy falling off sled. Now he just grabs his hat and hides.

14. Cut the prairie dogs from the rocket sled sequence. 

15. Cut Indy saying Woa. When he realizes the people on the couch are dummies.

16. Cut one of the “That can’t be goods” in Doom town.

17. Cut Indy saying “Fine then don’t wait for me” as he attempts to catch the soldiers’ fleeing car on foot in doomtown.

18. Cut some of the fridge bouncing to TRY to make it a BIT more believable that he could survive the trip in the fridge. (I know I know, but I at least tried)

19. increased the time it takes for Indy to open the fridge door. So it APPEARS that he is pretty messed up in there. 

20. Indy doesn’t see a prairie dog after he rolls out of fridge.

21. Made FBI scene less redundant.

22. Laser over at OT also did a great photo swap on the pictures of Henry Sr. and Marcus so I will use this as well with his permission. 

23. Cut Indy saying It’s Just a story to Mutt about the skull and Cut him acting like the skull doesn’t exist. This helps Indy’s motivation for going in the first place.

24. In the sanitarium, I cut the second shot of the weird inmate reaching for Mutt. One was enough and the guy looks too much like Sean Patrick Flannery.

25. Cut Indy saying This Way Up when Indy helps Mutt to his feet.

26. I think it was Marion at OT who added gunfire to Indy’s pistol in the cemetery fight scene. I wanted to use this but the formats are different.

27. Also, I’m cutting back on the acrobatics of the fight to give it all more immediacy and brutality if possible. 

28. Cutting the silly noises the little guys make also. Especially when Indy blows the dart back into the baddy’s throat.

29. Cut the dance on your own time line.

 
30. Cut the “what ifs” given by Indy and Mutt after they find the skull. Now the scene ends with Indy asking “What IS this thing?” Then we see the two emerge from the tomb and run into Mac and Dovchenko.

30. Cut any and all clear and direct shots of the alien corpses. Now they are only seen behind the cloth. Cut a bit of the repetitive dialog here as well so it moves a bit more quickly. 

31. Cut OX’s STUPID dancing by the fire and twirling the cane shit. Now they push him into the tent seemingly into Indy who grabs Ox by the wrist to tell him who he is. We do still hear Ox babbling so Indy can tell the dude is messed up. 

32. Cut the AWKWARD Indy head spasms as he get hypnotized by the skull. 

33. Cut Ox saying three times it drops (since it does not in fact drop three times now.)

34. Cut the “or have you retired from Marion’s “you still leaving a trail of wreckage…” to Indy. Just works better. 

35. Cut Indy saying good when Spalko figures out one of the ideograms. Why the F is he complimenting her?!

36. Cut the science lesson from Indy in the quicksand.

 37. Now Indy tells Ox to HELP instead of GO GET HELP (from who exactly Indy?) Now when Ox runs off its kinda funny. AND when he returns with the commies it’s funny too. 
38. Cut Indy insisting Mutt and Marion call the snake a rope. Now he just finally decides to gab it.
39. Cut Indy’s pants ripping and Mutt saying Oh Shit in the truck.
40. Cut one of Mutt’s kicks to Dovchenko. So Indy plays more of a role knocking him out.

41. Cut down on the Doe eyes Marion gives after Indy climbs out of the truck.
42. Cut Ox saying Henry Jones JR! before the jungle chase. Idiot. TO do this I had to reorder the shots a bit, but it works fine. That line Had to go.
43. Cut “HI MAC! “ So that now Indy just punches Mac. 
44. Cut Marion getting hit by the branches while driving AND cut the Mutt crotch shots.
45. Cut the number of Spalko punches to Mutt (silly) and the kicks it takes to knock Mutt back.
46. Mutt sees only one monkey now.
47. Increased immediacy of Indy’s jeep on the edge of cliff and Spalko threatening him and Mutt spying the chase from the trees. Flows much better now. 
48. Cut monkeys attacking Spalko of course.
49. Cut Mutt’s Woa. Now just Indy says it. 
50. Cut the truck landing in the tree bit. Now it just goes right into the water. They climb back in. Rapids take them over the falls. They all fall out. Crawl to shore. 
51. Cut most of Marion laughing with the steering wheel.
52. Now Mutt says they have to go through waterfall Skull and we cut away with Indy looking at the skull entrance. This whole things works better now.

53. Cut Indy saying the skull tells him to return it.  Jesus.
54. Reorganized the obelisk puzzle so that Indy now appears to be the one to figure it out. Did this by cutting Indy asking Ox what he’s doing, what he’s looking for, well done, etc.

55. Cut the awkward double shot of the gang falling/jumping from the stairs booby trap. Now they just fall once. Sloppy editing Steve.

56. Cut Indy asking Ox for the skull (I’ll give it back I promise) bleh. Now Indy just takes it.
57. CLIMAX - ????? We’ll see…
58. Made the water bit more immediate also. Now the water appears right at their feet, hits em quick and fires them upward. Less of the fun WEEEE!!! Feeling. 
59. Cut the second time Indy says knowledge was their treasure. We get it. 

60. Cut Indy saying why don’t you stick around and Mutt saying In don’t know why didn’t you dad? Now Indy says Somehwere your Grandpa is laughing right after Mutt says he’s walking off – so it looks like Grandpa would be laughing at Indy having to raise such a head strong son like he did.
61. Cut SOME of the UFO. Now it leaves a bit more to the imagination.

62. Wedding has just music. No dialog. And I cut it down some as well. 

List of propsed changes to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Kingdom-of-the-Crystal-Skull-Edit-Suggestions/topic/9732/

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All right.  I stand corrected.

InfoDroid just tends to have a very unique vision of what to do with IJ films.  But I suppose any idea may spawn other ideas.

Forget I said anything.


Edit: To clarify... my crazy comment is derived from my continued confusion over how many different KotCS projects are actually in the works and the differences between them since all editors are using the same thread.

Dr. M

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jones1899 said:

Heks, you make some really good points here - especially about the pacing. ID's edit WILL have a chase followed by a chase and that could be an issue. Interesting. 

But as far as using the island where the ark was opened, I think that would put too much emphasis on Raiders (which this movie is nowhere near in any fashion) and the Ark (which is featured for only 2 seconds). 

In fact, I'm curious (and excited) to see how opening with anything frmo Raiders is gonna work. Have to say though, ID is good. He's very very good. So if anyone could make it work...

Hey Jones1899,

I can actually think of some ways it might be incorporated quite attractively in black and white. If it were me, what I'm thinking is opening with the dissolve from the paramount logo to a peak on that island, then cutting directly to the ark lid spinning down from the sky and landing on the ark, then showing Indy turning to Marion and putting his hands on her face while she standing up against the pole they were tied to ... fade to black ... fade into him walking down the steps in D.C. and looking back up them in frustration (but cutting the dialog out) and showing Marion tipping up his hat like in ID's screencap ... fade to black ... fade into the ark being pushed through the warehouse and put in it's place ... fade to black for about 5 seconds ... fade into the doors of the warehouse opening and in a wide shot and Indy walking in with Spalko and company.

I'd say not include any dialog from the Raiders snippets and play one of the more subdued Raiders themes over it all, having the theme start to fade out over the 5 second black screen transitioning to KOTCS, but have the theme abruptly stopped by the opening of the warehouse doors in KOTCS rather than having a chance to fade out entirely.

But to make the Raiders bits have more of a payoff I think the KOTCS scene needs to be edited to give the impression that Indy has somehow seen the ark when the crate it's in breaks open ... though I guess that isn't ENTIRELY necessary, since it still sets up the warehouse itself. I think that the Raiders bits also set tie in the FBI agents in the interrogation being 'bureaucratic fools' ... which I guess might be an argument for including that line in the Raiders snippet ... I guess both could be tried to see which works better.

Take care,
Ryan

 

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Good points Heks, but I think the only way I would agree is if they went to the warehouse for the Ark for some reason. As it is now, the only real link would be the warehouse and it is already clearly extablished that the warehouse is the same from Raiders. Now, focusing more in Indy and Marion in that opening B&W bit makes sense since the movie deals with their relationship.

Just my opinion.

List of propsed changes to Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Kingdom-of-the-Crystal-Skull-Edit-Suggestions/topic/9732/

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jones1899 said:

Good points Heks, but I think the only way I would agree is if they went to the warehouse for the Ark for some reason. As it is now, the only real link would be the warehouse and it is already clearly extablished that the warehouse is the same from Raiders. Now, focusing more in Indy and Marion in that opening B&W bit makes sense since the movie deals with their relationship.

Just my opinion.

 

I had a little idea for an edit of Indy 4 that I'll probably not do now that at least 3 indy4 edits are on the making.

What about replacing the picture of Sean Connery that Indy look at by a picture of Marion? I don't know if it would make sens with the dialogue that come right after that though.

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I think if the pictures were to be changed, change Marcus' to Marion. 

 

 

YOU NEVER REPLACE CONNERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Ha!Ha!Ha!

 

 

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I've just finished watching "National Treasure 2" again, and I wonder if maybe a few scenes of the finale (the flooding temple) could be included in Skull's finale... the water-wheel sequence was not only lacking tension, it also came somewhere out of the blue.

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jones1899 said:

Also, infodroid has a couple questions about your Connery photo replacement edit.

Where? Did I miss it in the thread?