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Kennedy worse than Lucas. — Page 2

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generalfrevious said:

yhwx said:

generalfrevious said:

TV’s Frink said:

generalfrevious said:

TV’s Frink said:

Is this a question or a statement? I can’t tell because the thread title has no punctuation.

Statement

Well yeah but you fixed your thread title and also I see what you did here.

Also you liked TFA until YouTube told you not to, so I’m not sure how KK fits into that bit of info.

It was agonybooth, not YouTube. How many times do I have to say this?

Kennedy is the one who is overseeing everything right now. She is the one who chose to play it safe and just give us what we already had while denying what we want.

Maybe when TFA first came out it was okay to be less critical of the movie because it passed the bar lowered by the prequels (i.e. Star Trek 09). But in light of Rogue One cynically exploiting the fans for profit, and bringing in such auteurs like Ron Howard and Stephen Daldry while firing Lord & Miller for yrying to do something new with the franchise, it seems right to view TFA more critically than in 2015.

That doesn’t make any sense.

Yes it does, because the context in which the film exists has changed. In 2015, it was a new beginning, going back to the roots after the disastrous PT era. Now it’s the first product in the assembly line, part of the cinematic universe trend of the 2010s, where it’s just recycling what was done before to make a profit.

Bottom line, it isn’t aging well, just like Star Trek 09.

Still doesn’t make any sense.

Most of the time, you shouldn’t grade films on a curve because of later events. Your opinion might change over time as you grow, but the “context” of a movie shouldn’t change the rating of a movie, with few exceptions.

People’s opinions of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back don’t change because they think Return of the Jedi was modified to sell more toys.

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generalfrevious said:
only TLJ would come close to not being some reference-heavy glorified fan film (I’m not buying into the hype)

You don’t have to buy into anything. Taking Rian’s comments at face value is all one needs to do 😉

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I tend to disagree. Kennedy and Disney fell victim to the hype that is JJ Abrams. He gave us a start to a trilogy rather than a stand alone film that is part of a trilogy (the man just can’t figure out how to end his stories). Rogue One on the other hand is a fantastic adventure that takes two paragraphs from the ANH opening crawl and makes a truly great movie out of it. The most like the OT of any of non OT films.

I love your description of the prequels - “At least with Lucas you got fascinating failures.” I think you nailed that.

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The first entry in a trilogy is required to be a stand-alone film too?

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I do not know who fell victim to who, but the fact is that TFA is a shitty collection of rehash elements. Anyway, it seems more likely that JJ fell victim to Disney, assuming he did not willingly collaborate to make that shit.

真実

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imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

Lucas was an artist who became a businessman though.

I would say PT is a strong evidence of contrary. Even though PT sucked and was receiving lots of criticism since TPM, he was making what he wanted and not what audience wanted/expected. He could make films about Anakin/Vader being likeable badass, which is what most of people would love/expect to see, but instead he followed his own unpopular story where Anakin/Vader was an annoying whiner.

This isn’t true at all, Lucas changed a lot due to audience response.

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 (Edited)

Well yeah, but if we go by '70s standards, we won’t get anywhere.

“I am a writer. Therefore, I am not sane.”

― Edgar Allan Poe

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generalfrevious said:

What good has Kathleen Kennedy done for this franchise? All she did was exploit fans’ nostalgia for the OT, while at the same time doubling down on not releasing them. Common sense should have left SW alone. Bit where are we now? Kennedy has given us a loose remake and a fanservice-heavy spinoff. It’s apparent she’s stifling any creativity by firing directors and keeping on hacks only because they make money. Of the next four films coming up, only TLJ would come close to not being some reference-heavy glorified fan film (I’m not buying into the hype). At least with Lucas you got fascinating failures instead of marvel-lite like today’s Star Wars movies. By the time the Obi-wan movie comes out this franchise will have TEN mediocre installments in it!

Stifling creativity? So far only the Han Solo films directors have been fired and that’s because they were turning the film into something completely different than they were hired to do. None of the other directors were fired. The so called “Gareth Edwards had nothing to do with the reshoots” articles were bull. The proof is there in the final film that he was still there. One of the final scenes to be filmed for the film was the vader attack/ Tantive IV escape. Originally there was no battle, it just escaped as Vader’s stardestroyer obliterated the Mon Calmiari ship. So, if Gareth was replaced, as the articles suggested ( all from a supposed on set report of another director in charge, when it was nothing more than the same thing that happened during star wars when Gary Kurtz ended up directing a lot of the scenes due to time constraints), then how was here the one who pulled the lever to release the Tantive? Also Edwards wanted to kill off all the characters but originally shot the film with a completely different ending where most survived because he never thought that they would allow him to kill them all off. But they did and gave the go ahead for extensive reshoots ( plus because the original tower was not part of the main building and, when viewing the cut, realised that combining the two buildings was a better idea as the final battle was going on way too long).

To say that Kennedy is stifling any creativity is just not true. If that were the case then there is no way she would have given the go ahead for the R1 reshoots. If that were George he would have just said it could be “fixed in editing”. Here’s what Edwards said about the final scene:

““He arrives and obliterates the Calamari ship, and then the blockade runner gets out just in time and he pursues the blockade runner. And then Jabez was like, ‘I think we need to get Darth on that ship,’ and I thought, yeah, that’s a brilliant idea and would love to do it, but there’s no way they’re going to let us do it. It’s a big number and we had, what, like 3 or 4 months before release. Kathy [Kennedy] came in and Jabez thought, f*ck it, and pitched her this idea, and she loved it. Suddenly within a week or two we were at Pinewood shooting that scene.””

If that is stifling creativity then i wish more studio bosses would do it. And if you are accusing her of this just because of the firing of the Han Solo film directors then that is NOT stifling creativity. That is protecting a well known character along with the studios investment. By all accounts they were turning him into a joke. instead of injecting the Star Wars type humour, that was sorely lacking from the prequels, they were turning it into a full blown buddy comedy movie. Or would you have preferred that han Solo be turned into a complete joke? George almost did that with Return of the Jedi.

As for not releasing the OT, then i didn’t know you had seen the sale contact between Lucas and Disney. You haven’t? Oh, well then, how do you know that part of the contract was that they had to agree that they could not alter his films in any way, including reverting them back to their pre SE state? That they had to remain as they are in this final versions? At least until after his death? Truth is, none of us know.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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The Force Awakens and Rogue One are superior to the prequels in every way.

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SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

Lucas was an artist who became a businessman though.

I would say PT is a strong evidence of contrary. Even though PT sucked and was receiving lots of criticism since TPM, he was making what he wanted and not what audience wanted/expected. He could make films about Anakin/Vader being likeable badass, which is what most of people would love/expect to see, but instead he followed his own unpopular story where Anakin/Vader was an annoying whiner.

He still signed off on the biggest avalanche of merchandising rivaling even the OT for Phantom Menace. A good portion of it being crap that gathered dust on shelves for years. Would 1970’s George have allowed this to be made?

Probably?

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rodneyfaile said:

The Force Awakens and Rogue One are superior to the prequels in every way.

Not in terms of their soundtracks.

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rodneyfaile said:

The Force Awakens and Rogue One are superior to the prequels in every way.

I agree with that, in light of all the trash-talking about Kennedy and the new films.

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DominicCobb said:

Lord Haseo said:

rodneyfaile said:

The Force Awakens and Rogue One are superior to the prequels in every way.

Not in terms of their soundtracks.

That’s very much up for debate.

I can’t remember anything from the recent films, but I absolutely remember at least one song from each prequel film.

Doesn’t make the PT superior to TFA/RO though.

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Lord Haseo said:

rodneyfaile said:

The Force Awakens and Rogue One are superior to the prequels in every way.

Not in terms of their soundtracks.

The prequel soundtrack is really good. It’s a close call because I really love Rey’s theme and March of the Resistance.

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Do we really know how much say Kennedy has in the matter? I’m asking honestly, by the way. I don’t doubt she has George’s wishes at heart since they’ve been very close friends and colleagues for decades. I wonder though, can she really suppress the originals if Disney wants to release them properly? She may not be our roadblock.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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Anchorhead said:

Do we really know how much say Kennedy has in the matter? I’m asking honestly, by the way. I don’t doubt she has George’s wishes at heart since they’ve been very close friends and colleagues for decades. I wonder though, can she really suppress the originals if Disney wants to release them properly? She may not be our roadblock.

I think Fox is the one holding it up. They are in a pissing contest with Disney over Marvel stuff.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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RE: soundtracks, TFA introduced no fewer than four memorable and eminently hummable themes (Rey’s, Kylo’s, March of the Resistance, and Jedi Steps). None of the prequels had more than two. R1 was indeed comparatively weak (apart from the Whills theme), but you can’t expect much else without Williams on board.

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

Lucas was an artist who became a businessman though.

Would 1970’s George have allowed this to be made?

Possibly, yeah. There was a TON of Star Wars crap that was made in the 1970s, and not all of it was quality. Remember, 1970s George allowed the HOLIDAY SPECIAL to be made.

Also the idea that he “became” a businessman rather than was one from the start is wrong. The smartest decision Lucas ever made was to forego his director’s salary for the marketing rights to Star Wars. From that moment on he was a businessman – an enormously successful businessman with an empire (no pun intended) at his disposal.

But what’s weird about George is that he never stopped being a somewhat insane artist either. I DO think that some of his more outlandish or controversial decisions were probably made with profit in mind, but others were undoubtedly the result of a mad artist letting his creative impulses run rampant without anyone to rein him in. Not to mention in the years between the trilogies it seems he became detached from the inventive spark that drove him in the first place, so those impulses were not as good as they were before (and they were never perfect mind you).

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How is “solid but maybe slightly unoriginal new movies and no OOT” worse than “bad new movies or no new movies at all and still no OOT”?

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Frank your Majesty said:

How is “solid but maybe slightly unoriginal new movies and no OOT” worse than “bad new movies or no new movies at all and still no OOT”?

Once you realize only left wing ideologies are able to harm people, it’ll all fall into place.

“I am a writer. Therefore, I am not sane.”

― Edgar Allan Poe

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Density said:

SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

Lucas was an artist who became a businessman though.

Would 1970’s George have allowed this to be made?

Possibly, yeah. There was a TON of Star Wars crap that was made in the 1970s, and not all of it was quality. Remember, 1970s George allowed the HOLIDAY SPECIAL to be made.

Also the idea that he “became” a businessman rather than was one from the start is wrong. The smartest decision Lucas ever made was to forego his director’s salary for the marketing rights to Star Wars. From that moment on he was a businessman – an enormously successful businessman with an empire (no pun intended) at his disposal.

But what’s weird about George is that he never stopped being a somewhat insane artist either. I DO think that some of his more outlandish or controversial decisions were probably made with profit in mind, but others were undoubtedly the result of a mad artist letting his creative impulses run rampant without anyone to rein him in. Not to mention in the years between the trilogies it seems he became detached from the inventive spark that drove him in the first place, so those impulses were not as good as they were before (and they were never perfect mind you).

How much did control did George really have over that sort of thing at the time? You had Vader, Chewie and the droids on the Donny & Marie show. Not to mention dancing stormtroopers. The cantina creatures appeared on Richard Pryor’s short lived sketch show. After that, the only other time SW characters appeared on a live action tv series was The Muppet Show during production on ESB. Threepio and Artoo pimped Star Tours on a one off Disney tv special circa 1986 though.

All the merchandising before 1980 was copyrighted to Fox, not Lucasfilm. Fox still owns the original film to this day.

Most of the “crap” was actually bootleg or unauthorized merchandise. The only authorized item I thought was tacky was the jewelry line. I’m somewhat baffled lightsaber knockoff toys are being made today, when Fox went after almost anyone who glued a plastic tube to a flashlight back in the 70’s. Fox went after Universal over Battlestar Galactica and even contemplated suing over Hardware Wars, but George somehow talked them out of that one.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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canofhumdingers said:

SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

Lucas was an artist who became a businessman though.

I would say PT is a strong evidence of contrary. Even though PT sucked and was receiving lots of criticism since TPM, he was making what he wanted and not what audience wanted/expected. He could make films about Anakin/Vader being likeable badass, which is what most of people would love/expect to see, but instead he followed his own unpopular story where Anakin/Vader was an annoying whiner.

He still signed off on the biggest avalanche of merchandising rivaling even the OT for Phantom Menace. A good portion of it being crap that gathered dust on shelves for years. Would 1970’s George have allowed this to be made?

Probably?

The tape dispenser is supposed to be one of Anthony Daniels’ favorite items. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?