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Jim Ward steps down — Page 2

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Well, we'll have to accept the laerdisc ports for the next 20-30 years; maybe someday well get a remastered OOT, but probably not in the first half of this century. Unfortunately, they'll have to try to recreate what it was in 1977 from the GOUT. But until hell freezes over Im jumping over to the star trek crowd until then.

Not sure how that would be a much better camp as far as this discussion goes. It's impossible to get the original theatrical versions of Star Treks I, II, and VI in an anamorphic DVD either.

Since I think it was you who brought this subject up in another thread, I'll cut you some slack for getting it wrong since I was actually going to list the specs of each original version's release and didn't get around to it.

The first dvd release of II was the original theatrical version and it was an anamorphic transfer.

Paramount released the old single disc editions in a weird order, it went something like this IIRC:

-First Contact, anamorphic, either day and date with the vhs in '97 (if it wasn't before the dvd format debuted ....) or a year later in '98
-Insurrection was day and date with the vhs in '99. I remember when we got our first dvd player in late spring of '99 (it was a father's day present to my dad) and going to see if the video store had a copy to rent and they were out so I rented it on pan n' scan vhs instead and watched it in the basement (I hadn't seen the movie at all yet in case you were wondering why I wanted to rent it).
-Of the pre-'97 movies, I think V and VI were released first for some reason (probably because they were the more recent movies). They were both non-anamorphic and VI was the home video cut with the operation retrieve scene and a few other differences.
-Generations was non-anamorphic
-Wrath of Khan was released in 2000 (I still remember seeing the Best Buy ad in the paper where it was listed under new releases coming out that Tuesday and thinking how odd (and yet cool at the same time) it was that they were starting with II). It was anamorphic, single layer and it was the original version. Search for Spock and Voyage Home were the same way, except Voyage Home was dual-layer.

It's funny, I actually saw a bunch of the old discs in the used section of an independent store early last year and was tempted to pick up II since it's the original version. I dunno, I guess I'm just hoping (just like with Star Wars) that they'll go all out for the inevitable hi-def release and put both versions on there.

EDIT: yea, knew I shouldn't have bothered to type all that out and wait to hit the button. Baronlando beat me to it.

Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: zombie84
True, but having said that all we got with Ward was a Laserdisk port.

At least he was able to accomplish that much.

However, the creation of a new petition on this site is long overdue: the OOT on Blu-ray.


"Existing prints are in poor condition." This quote from the form-response email sent out by LFL back in May of '06 to all of us outraged fans should be our starting point for the new petition. "So, they exist, and you could give us a remaster using them, you're just not going to?" should be our response. On the other hand, we need to first verify what exactly they mean by "existing prints." Does this mean they are acknowledging the fact that private collectors have prints of the OOT or does it in fact mean LFL actually still has some (or even some interpositives) lying around in the vault?
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Originally posted by: Baronlando
A homemade original (or "original-ish") Star Wars would be pretty cool. I've been using Final Cut Pro, maybe I'll take a crack at it. A few weeks ago I was discussing which "lost" shots from the 77 version are the most important.


I've been hoping someone would do one for a long time now:


LINK

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My understanding is that the line about "existing prints" is misleading bullshit because they wouldn't make a dvd from "existing prints" anyway. They'd create a new source from whatever the best available elements are, or something? The "best available", I guess, would be a 1997 IP or IN, plus the shots that were lifted out in 97? Assuming those particular shots are in storage, and weren't burned on a pyre Vader-style.
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I'm cutting anything from the special edition restoration onward out of the equation. I mean, there's what, several hundred differences between the SE and the OOT? Has any professional studio actually reconstructed an earlier version of one of their films in such a way instead of simply transferring an older print/IP? Whenever I talk about "those interpositives" I mean the most recently struck pre-SE IP, but for all I know that could be more than twenty years old at this point and beyond any hope of restoration. Going the route of private collectors (as suggested by Bill Hunt) and getting Criterion to spearhead it (as suggested by Jay) might be the only real option available.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Well, we'll have to accept the laerdisc ports for the next 20-30 years; maybe someday well get a remastered OOT, but probably not in the first half of this century. Unfortunately, they'll have to try to recreate what it was in 1977 from the GOUT. But until hell freezes over Im jumping over to the star trek crowd until then.

Not sure how that would be a much better camp as far as this discussion goes. It's impossible to get the original theatrical versions of Star Treks I, II, and VI in an anamorphic DVD either.

Since I think it was you who brought this subject up in another thread, I'll cut you some slack for getting it wrong since I was actually going to list the specs of each original version's release and didn't get around to it.

The first dvd release of II was the original theatrical version and it was an anamorphic transfer.

Paramount released the old single disc editions in a weird order, it went something like this IIRC:

-First Contact, anamorphic, either day and date with the vhs in '97 (if it wasn't before the dvd format debuted ....) or a year later in '98
-Insurrection was day and date with the vhs in '99. I remember when we got our first dvd player in late spring of '99 (it was a father's day present to my dad) and going to see if the video store had a copy to rent and they were out so I rented it on pan n' scan vhs instead and watched it in the basement (I hadn't seen the movie at all yet in case you were wondering why I wanted to rent it).
-Of the pre-'97 movies, I think V and VI were released first for some reason (probably because they were the more recent movies). They were both non-anamorphic and VI was the home video cut with the operation retrieve scene and a few other differences.
-Generations was non-anamorphic
-Wrath of Khan was released in 2000 (I still remember seeing the Best Buy ad in the paper where it was listed under new releases coming out that Tuesday and thinking how odd (and yet cool at the same time) it was that they were starting with II). It was anamorphic, single layer and it was the original version. Search for Spock and Voyage Home were the same way, except Voyage Home was dual-layer.

It's funny, I actually saw a bunch of the old discs in the used section of an independent store early last year and was tempted to pick up II since it's the original version. I dunno, I guess I'm just hoping (just like with Star Wars) that they'll go all out for the inevitable hi-def release and put both versions on there.

EDIT: yea, knew I shouldn't have bothered to type all that out and wait to hit the button. Baronlando beat me to it.

Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: zombie84
True, but having said that all we got with Ward was a Laserdisk port.

At least he was able to accomplish that much.

However, the creation of a new petition on this site is long overdue: the OOT on Blu-ray.


"Existing prints are in poor condition." This quote from the form-response email sent out by LFL back in May of '06 to all of us outraged fans should be our starting point for the new petition. "So, they exist, and you could give us a remaster using them, you're just not going to?" should be our response. On the other hand, we need to first verify what exactly they mean by "existing prints." Does this mean they are acknowledging the fact that private collectors have prints of the OOT or does it in fact mean LFL actually still has some (or even some interpositives) lying around in the vault?



How substantiative are the Trek changes?

Originally posted by: Fang Zei
I'm cutting anything from the special edition restoration onward out of the equation. I mean, there's what, several hundred differences between the SE and the OOT? Has any professional studio actually reconstructed an earlier version of one of their films in such a way instead of simply transferring an older print/IP? Whenever I talk about "those interpositives" I mean the most recently struck pre-SE IP, but for all I know that could be more than twenty years old at this point and beyond any hope of restoration. Going the route of private collectors (as suggested by Bill Hunt) and getting Criterion to spearhead it (as suggested by Jay) might be the only real option available.


Ahem. http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa121.html#fr

Basically it comes down to them not wanting to spend the cash, which I wish that they'd just say.

"That's right, we can do this, but Lucas won't so we're fucking over the fans. Now buy more of our shit."

That's basically what they should just come and say.

I'd be all for a new petition or SOMETHING. I'd like to do SOMETHING. But, since Lucas won't change his mind, I doubt that it will matter anyway.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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I forgot that digitalbits had broken it down so succinctly. I must have blocked it out because that was when some jagoffs from theforce.net were convinced
they understood the restoration issue better than Robert Harris and my brain melted.
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Originally posted by: Mike O



How substantiative are the Trek changes?


On the 2nd disc of Star Trek: The Motion Picture (which has only had one dvd release, and it's the director's edition), they actually included all of the deleted scenes from the original version and all of the scenes from the tv version, all in anamorphic widescreen I should add. Basically, with the exception of the original opening and closing credits, they included any material from the various versions that didn't make it into the director's edition.

The Wrath of Khan director's edition added some short scenes, such as Kirk meeting Scotty's nephew. There are also some alternate angles used. I remember seeing a youtube pointing out that there are a few additional differences between this version and the tv version. Whoever made it basically spliced in footage from an off-the-air videotape recording.

I'm not sure if there are any differences between the single and 2-disc releases of Undiscovered Country, aside from anamorphic widescreen of course. The version on the 2-disc definitely isn't the theatrical cut since it has the operation retrieve scene.

Spoiler warning if you haven't seen Star Trek VI:

One funny thing I should point out is that when I watched the 2-disc for the first time I remember actually noticing a difference in the edit. After Valeris has been exposed as a conspirator and she's standing on the bridge with everyone asking her questions, McCoy at one point says "and what do you think you've been doing" and Valeris replies "saving Starfleet." The reason I noticed the difference is that on the dvd there's actually a cut to the angle that's just on McCoy when he says that whereas I definitely remember watching the movie back in the day either on tv or on vhs and there was no cut to McCoy when he says that and it always seemed awkward to me because his voice seemed to be coming from nowhere. Then I read the text commentary on the dvd and sure enough there was a difference.

This is what makes me wonder if the cut on the single-disc version is different.

Beyond that, I can't really say what all the various differences are in the cuts of the Trek films. Of the old single-disc releases the only ones I've actually seen are Generations (rented it back in the spring of '02 because I felt like watching it again, yea, don't ask) and Nemesis (rented it in summer of '03 since I'd missed it in theaters).
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Whatever, I meant the Star Trek franchise in general.
And BTW, Im being "pessimistic" because none of you understand the power of Lucas over us.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Well, we'll have to accept the laerdisc ports for the next 20-30 years; maybe someday well get a remastered OOT, but probably not in the first half of this century. Unfortunately, they'll have to try to recreate what it was in 1977 from the GOUT. But until hell freezes over Im jumping over to the star trek crowd until then.


Not sure how that would be a much better camp as far as this discussion goes. It's impossible to get the original theatrical versions of Star Treks I, II, and VI in an anamorphic DVD either.


Since I think it was you who brought this subject up in another thread, I'll cut you some slack for getting it wrong since I was actually going to list the specs of each original version's release and didn't get around to it.

The first dvd release of II was the original theatrical version and it was an anamorphic transfer.

etc.


Heh, well thanks for cutting me some slack. Honestly, except for VI and the Next Gen. era movies, I have not seen anything but the 2-Disc collector edition of any of the movies available in any store I've gone to. But thanks for pointing out that an anamorphic version of the orignal Wrath of Khan did/does exist. However, I still don't seem to wrong about VI. In fact, based on the information I've read, the theatrical version of VI has never seen the light of day on home video.

EDIT: I concede you're also right about the deleted scenes and things being included with The Motion Picture. I have never seen them because I only rented that movie once and never had time to check out the bonus features, but I was aware of that. Still, I don't consider having the orignal elements scattered elsewhere to be the equivalent of having the original cut of the movie. Plus, and I'm just asking because I don't know, are versions of included scenes before director's cut effects enhancements were added on the DVD's deleted material as well?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Well, we'll have to accept the laerdisc ports for the next 20-30 years; maybe someday well get a remastered OOT, but probably not in the first half of this century. Unfortunately, they'll have to try to recreate what it was in 1977 from the GOUT. But until hell freezes over Im jumping over to the star trek crowd until then.


Not sure how that would be a much better camp as far as this discussion goes. It's impossible to get the original theatrical versions of Star Treks I, II, and VI in an anamorphic DVD either.


Since I think it was you who brought this subject up in another thread, I'll cut you some slack for getting it wrong since I was actually going to list the specs of each original version's release and didn't get around to it.

The first dvd release of II was the original theatrical version and it was an anamorphic transfer.

etc.


Heh, well thanks for cutting me some slack. Honestly, except for VI and the Next Gen. era movies, I have not seen anything but the 2-Disc collector edition of any of the movies available in any store I've gone to. But thanks for pointing out that an anamorphic version of the orignal Wrath of Khan did/does exist. However, I still don't seem to wrong about VI. In fact, based on the information I've read, the theatrical version of VI has never seen the light of day on home video.

EDIT: I concede you're also right about the deleted scenes and things being included with The Motion Picture. I have never seen them because I only rented that movie once and never had time to check out the bonus features, but I was aware of that. Still, I don't consider having the orignal elements scattered elsewhere to be the equivalent of having the original cut of the movie. Plus, and I'm just asking because I don't know, are versions of included scenes before director's cut effects enhancements were added on the DVD's deleted material as well?


About "Star Trek The Motion Picture",

The director's cut DVD bonus disc does not include every part of all the scenes left out of the director's cut. And, it also does not include the original stereo mix for a number of scenes. There are some scenes not included without the added visual effects on the bonus disk. I'm still working on a mega set fan release that will include the original theatrical version from 1979 in a anamorphic 16x9 format (with the original stereo soundtrack), the 1983 extended special longer version in a anamorphic 16x9 format and original Stereo soundtrack (This has never been released on any video format), and a Fanedit version made by myself.

More info there>>> "FANFILTRATION'S STAR TREK THE MOTION PICTURE MEGA SET"

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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Most people feel that the directors cuts of the ST films are superior, and aside from STTMP they are extremely similar to the original versions anyway. Plus the originals were already released (ST VI has a "home video cut"--the theatrical version has never been seen AFAIK, so don't blame the DVD), plus in 2002 no one did multiple cuts. Most likely when they are released again for HD they will have new transfers of both theatrical and directors cut versions.
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Could we get any more off-topic? LOL!

I prefer the extended version of Kahn, myself.

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Well then Ward is definitely not going to be Star Wars' CdL, as if he was ever going to if he'd stayed.

I'll patiently await the grand announcement, but seeing as how 2008 is Jedi's 25th anniversary I'd rather have it be sooner than later.
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Originally posted by: Mielr
Could we get any more off-topic? LOL!

I prefer the extended version of Kahn, myself.


I just watched that yesterday. Hadn't seen it in so long. Such a classic!

"KKKAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNN!"

"Kiiirrk...."

And Spock's death brings a tear to my eye.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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I'll probably send in a video to those guys making the "people vs. george lucas" documentary, after I get my thoughts on the matter properly organized.

In terms of predictions though, I would say it's a pretty sure thing that the next release is not happening this year. '09 is a huge maybe, and it's still too far away with too many variables. Avatar has been pushed back to the very end of that year the last time I checked, so maybe Lucas will wait until 2010 or later to do the 3D releases (which I'm still assuming are definitely going to happen at some point). On the other hand there was that report from joblo.com saying they'd be out around Spring of '09, which would make sense if they're going to use it to gear up for the live action series (although I'm also wondering how the animated show is going to pan out. Will it be a limited thing or an ongoing series?). In any event, It's a pretty sure thing we're not seeing the next home video release until after they've played in theaters again, so I guess we'll just have to make the best of the time we have until then.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
I'll probably send in a video to those guys making the "people vs. george lucas" documentary, after I get my thoughts on the matter properly organized.

I'm going to do the same thing, but like you, I need to get my thoughts organized.

There was a time when it was all on on the surface and would have just come spilling out of me, but I feel a bit burned out about the whole thing now and I've lost focus. Maybe I should read some of my old posts.

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Obviously they're not going to release the OOT on BR, but I wonder if the SE is in the near future. Not that I care.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Not in the near future, at least not until the format war is totally over. Assuming blu-ray wins (which it looks like it will) it will be probably be a few years after that before the SE is released.

At least the fan-editors will have better material to work with then. Maybe they can do a blu-ray SE/GOUT hybrid.

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Originally posted by: Mike O
Obviously they're not going to release the OOT on BR, but I wonder if the SE is in the near future. Not that I care.

I'm guessing at 2010 or 2011. That's not based on any facts just my opinion. Maybe we should start a betting pool. The OOT won't be included and it will be 6 films on 6 discs with yet again underwhelming extras.

There's enough Indy and tv shows in between to keep the Lucas machine well oiled until then.

Originally posted by: Mielr

At least the fan-editors will have better material to work with then. Maybe they can do a blu-ray SE/GOUT hybrid.


From the HD broadcast fan-editors already have HD verions of the SE in at least 780p maybe 1080p (?). From memory I think that is what paulisdead is using for his hybrid project.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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Originally posted by: Mike O
Obviously they're not going to release the OOT on BR


Why do you say so? Is it only because Ward is now leaving? Close Encounters and Blade Runner got their OV's released on bd. I would hope that forces Lucas to step up to the plate. McCallum mentioned lots of documentaries for the next release. Lucas mentioned on the Charlie Rose show way back in either '04 or '05 how LFL was putting documentaries together for each and every episode of Young Indy. Granted it took forever for those to finally hit the shelves, but it did happen, so I guess it's also a sure bet for the next Star Wars set. For crying out loud, I really do hope they finally get around to remastering it this time. I do see the chance of it not happenning, especially now when it's almost 2 years away at the very least. I just wouldn't say it's obvious that it won't happen.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: Mike O
Obviously they're not going to release the OOT on BR

Why do you say so? Is it only because Ward is now leaving? Close Encounters and Blade Runner got their OV's released on bd. I would hope that forces Lucas to step up to the plate.

I would hope so too, except that with Lucas you just never know. He's one of the few directors/producers who doesn't seem to mind saying "eff you" to his films' most loyal fans, (which would seem counterproductive to most reasonable people) so who knows what the hell motivates him and how his mind works.

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Hey, Lucas is a maverick director that doesnt look at other people's work.
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Has the Gout actually been discontinued like they said it would? Because I still see plenty of new copies in stores now, over a year after it supposedly went back into the vault. Disney discontinued Lady and the Tramp & Bambi a year ago and I've only found Lady in stores where the dvd's are sometimes hidden behind other titles (FYE, Blockbuster) so it's not in plain sight from a distance.

I'm pretty sure the gold writing on the spines has a slightly different hue on some copies, which to me suggests a reprinting. I know LFL wanted to have a huge box set in 2007 but after deciding not to do that, I wonder if they figured it would make sense to keep the individual releases in print. Because there is no way Lucas doesn't want some release of his movies on the shelves. Supposedly the first dvd set with the bonus disc was going to be released again in an amazing new slim box but I haven't seen one at any store. The '04 and really stupid '05 box sets are still around too.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Yes, its definitly still in print. In Canada, HMV is listing it in its 2 for $30 for the past six months, which means it probably moves a few dozen thousand of them a month; OOP titles don't get listed in these types of sales, because they are not replenishable and mass-produced. Its in print for sure. Maybe they just quietly put it back in production.