James Cameron uses DVNR on Aliens Blu Ray transfer. — Page 8

Hmm.  That definitely looks a lot more natural than the heavy gold on the '03 version.  I wonder why they decided to change it back then, and then reverted to the original look now.  I never had a particular problem with the gold colouring, but I did sort of vaguely think it was a bit odd for a film from the 70's, and looking at the Bluray caps I definitely prefer its rendition of that scene.

Is that the original Fox logo, also?  It occurs to me that it could be used for an adywan-style recreation of the original Star Wars, if it is the same one (clearly it is of much higher quality than the GOUT).  I never really looked at it closely before, though.

What about the audio tracks?  I think msycamore said something about it being the 70mm version, but I haven't seen that information anywhere else.  I would have thought they'd use the same mix as the '03 dvd, but then I also thought it would be a 1080p version of that same transfer, but it looks like they went all out with a completely new one.  I don't know anything about the differences between the various audio mixes.

As far as Aliens goes, the colour changes are more significant than for the first movie, particularly with all the extra blue in some scenes, but it does have a certain appeal to it, especially since the contrast is so much better.  I'm not sure what to think of that.  I don't know when I'll be able to get into the HD scene--right now I'm quite satisfied with my '03 dvd's, but I may at some point want to get them on Bluray if they were available individually (no interest in seeing any of the others, because as far as I'm concerned Ripley made it back home with Hicks and Newt).

Shame that the DC got rid of the gold colouring for that scene, was a very interesting design choice, sort of an "ancient Egypt" golden tomb thing going on. It looked quite striking, especially since it contrasted so much with the design of the rest of the film.

As for Aliens, there are only two scenes so far that look like they are significantly different than the previous version, that being parts of the two queen alien sequences where some shots that were only partly blue-lighted are now much more predominantly blue, and slightly darker too. The rest of the film looks like it is simply truer colours compared to the washed out, red-shifted, poorer transfers of the past. I'm not sure whether to call the new blue shots revisionism though--in some ways they do match continuity-wise better with surrounding footage. Maybe the footage was always meant to be timed that way even if it wasn't photographed that way, so previous versions left the footage as it was and thus presented it wrong. Or maybe they decided to "correct" it now when it was always uncorrected mixed lighting in the original release. I guess you'd have to take a look at a print to know for sure. I usually see an original 35mm copy once a year so I'll be sure to note how it looks next time I get the chance, since that is pretty much the only way to know.

With the de-graining and the new FX fix though, I'm not sure how much one should care about "purism", since this is not completely accurate to its original version any way you cut it. If its a change, it's very minor like the others. But, as I said, from the examples posted it doesn't look like the photography is obviously different except in a couple instances, whereas though many other caps look slightly different from previous versions this is probably just due to better accuracy in the transfer (previous versions are fairly pink, and slightly dull).

msycamore said:

I didn't like the new look of certain scenes in the Directors Cut DVD either but the blu-ray seems very much improved to me, going by these new comparisons: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare2/alien.htm

Unfortunately it seems even more cropped than the DC DVD.

I've just realised that there's something else which may be relevant here, judging by those DVDBeaver shots... 

Going by those, it seems that the earlier pre-'Quadrilogy' ALIEN NTSC and PAL dvds may have different colours to each other!  As I'm in the UK, my whole dvd collection has always been PAL versions, and I've only had to source the odd few NTSC versions where there was never a PAL release done.  It looks to me as if there is a difference between the 'region' release colours going by the screenshots shown in those examples...so  I may end up ordering the old NTSC 'Theatrical' release to compare them properly. 

Another thing - I'd say that most of those particular screenshots are quite unrepresentative of what I'm talking about, and not the best examples, and can understand how some are unconvinced that there isn't much of a difference anyway...especially if they are looking at the old NTSC examples compared to the newer versions in those DVDBeaver shots!

I can assure everyone that my pre-'Quadrilogy' 'Theatrical' PAL version looks very warm and vibrant-looking throughout, with a more 'naturalistic' look to everything that I far prefer, compared to the later PAL 'Quadrilogy' branched version.

However, it turned out that the comparison link with a few examples from my original PAL 'Theatrical' version and my PAL 'Quadrilogy' branched 'Theatrical' version that I posted yesterday on page 6 wasn't typed properly.  So here's the proper link now.  (Of course, actually looking at the dvds on tv is a far more effective comparison than a handful of static screenshots can ever manage) -  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Alien-Appendix-7-The-ALIEN-SAGA-Archive/post/425702/#TopicPost425702  (hairy_hen, you may be interested in my thoughts on Hicks and Newt further up that same page there, considering your own views on the sequels...)

It's very interesting that it now seems to be confirmed by dark_jedi's 'Anthology' blu-ray screenshots that the colouring of Brett's "Here Jonesy..." scene is far closer to the pre-'Quadrilogy' dvds once again, though.  dark_jedi, I'd really like to see a blu-ray shot of the 'slow zoom-in towards the narrow doorway opening' that Brett eventually enters into (you can see the doorway opening on the left-hand side of the first screenshot you showed on page 7), if you can manage sometime.  Ideally, if you have a copy of the pre-'Quadrilogy' 'Theatrical' release too (whether NTSC or PAL), then I'd like to see the same shot taken from that to compare.  I'll try and get the PAL version up sometime if not.

I'm personally pleased this particular scene has been restored to something approaching it's non-'golden'/'stylized' look, even if nothing else has, compared to the PAL version's look I prefer...and it's good to know that they've restored the original 'Theatrical' logo.

Lastly, I sure hope that the blu-ray's actual transfer hasn't been 'cropped' as those DVDBeaver examples seem to show!  Surely not... 

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

dark_jedi said:

more screens,

 

Hey look!  It's xhonzi!

Oh hai, xhonzi!

Ha!  I had the same thought, but didn't want to get banned. ;-)

You and xhonzi are perfectly safe TV's Frink, as Jay specified that he wasn't bothered about any 'moronathons' etc. in the 'Off Topic' section threads...  ;)

Gotta love that expression, not that I'd like to encourage too much of that kind of thing.

ImperialFighter said:

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

dark_jedi said:

more screens,

 

Hey look!  It's xhonzi!

Oh hai, xhonzi!

Ha!  I had the same thought, but didn't want to get banned. ;-)

You and xhonzi are perfectly safe TV's Frink, as Jay specified that he wasn't bothered about any 'moronathons' etc. in the 'Off Topic' section threads...  ;)

Yes I know, hence the winky.

;-) <-----winky

xhonzi said:

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

dark_jedi said:

more screens,

 

Hey look!  It's xhonzi!

Oh hai, xhonzi!

Ha!  I had the same thought, but didn't want to get banned. ;-)

Hey now, are you trying to get me banned?

Absolutely.

*deal with it gif*

TV's Frink said:

;-) <-----winky

Oo-er missus! 

Glad to see you back in all your yellow glory, and love your new 'user title'.  :)

msycamore said:

ImperialFighter, I own the 20th anniversary NTSC DVD, tell me exactly which scenes you want me to take captures of besides that shot with "Brett-doorway-opening" and I'll post them for you.

Thanks msycamore, but I've now decided not to judge things by those DVDBeaver comparisons whatsoever, as I don't know if their old NTSC and PAL shots (and newer ones) were grabbed using the same identical equipment and settings or not.  Perhaps, but perhaps not.

I'd be interested if anyone happens to have both the old NTSC and PAL releases at hand that they can grab using the same equipment, though.  However, even if you just have the NTSC release msycamore, I'd also be interested to get an idea of how the same shots I posted here look in that format, especially the one of the Nostromo, and the close-up of Dallas's face, if you can.  Thanks. - http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Alien-Appendix-7-The-ALIEN-SAGA-Archive/post/425702/#TopicPost425702

If I do end up sourcing an NTSC copy, I'll be interested to see how it compares against my PAL copy on my tv/dvd player...as Chewtobacca has been in touch to say that he reckons there are indeed slight colour differences between regions for the same releases.  Not something I'd known about before.  (I'm guessing that the NTSC version would certainly suffer from a lot of 'pull-down' stuttering on my region-free player though, given the amount of 'slow panning' moves in the movie!) 

Then there's the fact that everyone's pc monitors have very different colour settings anyway, which can vary greatly as I've found in the past.

Screengrabs are fine for a rough idea of differences, but can be very unrepresentative of how the colours of the dvd footage actually looks on your tv/dvd player.  All I know is that on my own home theatre set-up, the old 'Theatrical' ALIEN PAL release is very easy on the eyes, and the colours 'pop-out' in a vibrant, 'naturalistic' way, and reminds me of how I remember it looking on the big screen...whereas the new 'Theatrical' PAL colour-timing doesn't. 

But what's done is done, and luckily for me, the original transfer quality itself still looks great on my big screen, enough for me not to miss the improved transfer that the 'Quadrilogy' and 'Anthology' undoubtedly have.  And so I won't be watching the new colour-timing again until the day the inevitable 3D blu-ray 'conversion' comes around...which I'll check out with interest!

Anyway, that DVNR issue, eh?

ImperialFighter said:

Lastly, I sure hope that the blu-ray's actual transfer hasn't been 'cropped' as those DVDBeaver examples seem to show!  Surely not... 

according to the review page on www.blu-ray.com

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Alien-Anthology-Blu-ray/5090/

the aspect ratios of the blu-rays matches that of the original aspect ratios.   Perhaps there were cropped in the theaters?

Any film transfer will introduce some cropping, no matter what.  It's inherent to the process.

The issue is that people don't like that the Blu-Ray seems to be cropped slightly more than the DVD.

I myself see it as a non-issue.  It's nothing like the GoldenEye Ultimate Edition DVD fiasco.

Oh, and Dark_Jedi, could you cap the two shots msycamore posted above from the theatrical cut on the BR?  I think we'd all like to know if the DC stars have made it onto the theatrical shots again (as they did on the 2003 DVDs), or if it's back to its theatrical form like the Here Jonesy scene.

ChainsawAsh said:

The issue is that people don't like that the Blu-Ray seems to be cropped slightly more than the DVD.

true, but I'm not sure the pictures on DVDbeaver.com are %100 accurate to what's actually on the bru-ray.   They differ from the pics on blu-ray.com.   I'm not sure which are correct.

pic from DVDbeaver.com:

pic from blu-ray.com:

Those aren't the same frame.  The pods are more open in the DVDBeaver screenshot.  The cropping looks the same to me, though.

oops, sorry.   They look very similar.

ChainsawAsh said:

Oh, and Dark_Jedi, could you cap the two shots msycamore posted above from the theatrical cut on the BR?  I think we'd all like to know if the DC stars have made it onto the theatrical shots again (as they did on the 2003 DVDs), or if it's back to its theatrical form like the Here Jonesy scene.

Where exactly are those parts, about what time do they happen so I can look and grab right away.

I wonder about those starfields if they were on any original versions. Msycamore, you of course know all about this from our discussion in the SE changes thread--I'm thinking of the ESB holograms, which apparently had multiple versions of the FX done in different "original" prints, with later prints and transfers (i.e. the DE/Faces and 1985 IP) somehow being less complete than earlier prints and transfers, and then when the original versions are restored for the SE people think its a change because they were used to the home video transfers based on less complete versions.

What this brings me to is I wonder if the starfields were on original 1979 material and the Alien print they used for the 1999 Saga transfer simply didn't have the fully complete version of these shots, and then when they went back to the negatives/original sources for the DC the shots are now complete as they were in the original "final version". I would be very curious to see various LD transfers of the films and see if there is a difference. But I guess this sort of thing is impossible to know for sure unless there is.

The only reason I bring this up, aside from the surprising finds in the SE-comparison thread that reminds me of this, is that it seems unusual to have done new VFX work for the DC, especially for something so unnecessary and insignificant as this, because as far as I know there was absolutely no work done to enhance or re-do any of the special effects work, they just re-timed the colour which they had to do since they were using the negatives.

I have the VHS widescreen in those awesome hard clamshell cases from 1996 or so, but unfortunately it's locked up in a cottage for the winter. Probably they used the same source for the DVD a couple years later though.

msycamore said:

dark_jedi, those two sequences appear right in the begginning of the film, the first shot starts around 10:00 minutes in and the second one starts about 14:20.

Thanks man, I will try and get the screens today for you.