James Cameron uses DVNR on Aliens Blu Ray transfer. — Page 6

I still like Alien 3, despite its flaws.  The extended cut is pretty fantastic.

Speaking of which, anyone remember the extended cut of 3 from the Quad set, where some scenes didn't have complete sound design and they had to use the on-set dialogue with subtitles?  Well, for the Blu-Ray, they brought in Sigourney, McGann, and the other necessary actors to provide ADR for those scenes, and finished up the SFX and such to give it a proper audio mix.  So it will actually feel "complete" this time.  I'm excited for that!

that Is interesting - the unfinished FX shots reall take me out of the moment. I'd be interested to see any comparisons.

I feel the extended cut still has some junk in it but there's enough I like. Has anyone ever made a hybrid fanedit?

I don't know if any VFX shots have been altered, all I know is that the audio track has been properly finished and mixed compared to the DVD version.

And I'm sure there has been at least one hybrid cut of Alien 3.

http://fanedit.org/alien/

These Blu-rays provide the ideal opportunity for making new hybrid cuts.  I particularly liked the hybrid cut of Alien 3.

oh, I thought you'd said FX to imply special effects - not sound effects. Gotcha.

ChainsawAsh said:

Seriously?  The Alien and Aliens color timing differences are nowhere near as dramatic as with Blade Runner, particularly the Final Cut.

I honestly don't get why color timing is such a huge issue to so many people.  Sure, when it's as obviously cocked up and inconsistent as the 2004 Star Wars DVDs, it IS a huge issue, but something like this isn't even remotely the same thing.

Yes, I'm serious...but I guess it's just down to personal preference at the end of the day.

I'm just not a fan of transfers being 'darkened' or given 'blue' or 'green' tints when their colours were not originally shown that way, and I've then been used to seeing a certain colour palette over numerous viewings. 

I was lucky enough to see the particular movies mentioned on each of their original 'Theatrical' releases, and the various tv showings, video, and dvd releases were far closer to what I first saw, compared to how things have now been altered by their director's since then. 

I'd have much preferred that ALIEN, BLADE RUNNER, and ALIENS (judging by the recent screeshots) still had the same naturalistic, vibrant look to them as before , instead of the new look they've been given.  Some of those ALIENS blu-ray screenshots certainly look dramatically different to me, I'd have to say, compared to the dvd version.  I know Cameron likes blue, but still...

Anyway, I'll be interested to hear if anyone can confirm that the Brett's "Here Jonesy..." scene on the 'Theatrical' ALIEN blu-ray is indeed nearer to it's pre-'Quadrilogy' dvd colouring, rather than it's 'Director's Cut' colouring on that boxset.  Thanks.  

It was re-timed in the DC to make it look like everything was laquered over with gold. The original scene had gold and brown decor in it, but not so extreme. It was an interesting design choice for the DC, and I'm sad it's been changed back to the darker original colouring. The problem was that there was no branching for the original version of the scene in the theatrical cut, there was only the one version of the scene with the gold colouring regardless of whether you were watching the supposed original cut. I don't know why they just didn't put two versions of the scene, one with the original darker colouring to branch for the theatrical and then one with the golden hue version to branch for the DC.

zombie84 said:

The problem was that there was no branching for the original version of the scene in the theatrical cut, there was only the one version of the scene with the gold colouring regardless of whether you were watching the supposed original cut. I don't know why they just didn't put two versions of the scene, one with the original darker colouring to branch for the theatrical and then one with the golden hue version to branch for the DC.

zombie84, I'm not sure I get what you mean about giving an option for merely this one single scene alone.  Seems a little impractical, and it certainly wouldn't have gone far in improving things for me. 

Just to clarify, I'm cheesed-off that the whole of the 'Theatrical' cut of ALIEN on the 'Quadrilogy' dvd boxset (and the individual 'Director's Cut' dvd release too) had the identical colour-timing of the tampered-with 'Director's Cut' throughout, compared to it's previous dvd releases.  I was hoping that this new tampered-with colouring wasn't going to be the new 'default' look for the 'Theatrical' cut from hereonin, but it seems it probably is, regardless of 'branching' issues.  Everyone's preferences aside though, what I find curious is the notion that this single scene alone may indeed have been restored to it's original colouration again for this blu-ray release, judging by Bill Hunt's comments...

The colour timing on the DC is pretty much the same as on the theatrical edition, Imperial Fighter. Its only the Brett scene that was significantly altered. Which is why they ought to have branched it.

It's my understanding that the DC branched version on the BR will use the new color timing for that scene, while the TC branched version will use the original color timing for that scene.  Can anyone who has the set confirm this?

Also, I downloaded a BR-rip of the Alien 3 extended cut, and I can confirm that the audio mix is much improved over the Quad set.  The best example of this is the scene where Clemens brings an unconscious Ripley into that room in the beginning, and tells the others to go look for the crashed EEV.  In the DVD version, this scene uses production audio, which is almost inaudible, requiring subtitles to be displayed.  For the BR, the actors have come in to ADR this scene (and others like it), so it sounds just as good as the rest of the film, and no longer requires subtitles.

zombie84 said:

The colour timing on the DC is pretty much the same as on the theatrical edition, Imperial Fighter. Its only the Brett scene that was significantly altered. Which is why they ought to have branched it.

Not sure if there's a misunderstanding here, but I'll try again -  the 'Theatrical' cut of ALIEN on the 'Quadrilogy' dvd set is identically colour-timed throughout to match the 'darkened'/'stylized' look of the newly colour-timed 'Director's Cut'...compared to the 'Theatrical' cut of ALIEN in it's previous releases. 

Whether due to 'branching' or being deliberately done to match the new look of the 'Director's Cut or not, I don't know, but either way, this new colourization is very different to how the 'Theatrical' cut always used to look.

ChainsawAsh said:

It's my understanding that the DC branched version on the BR will use the new color timing for that scene, while the TC branched version will use the original color timing for that scene.  Can anyone who has the set confirm this?

See, this is what I thought I was asking in the first place, on the previous page.  ;)

ImperialFighter said:  Not sure if there's a misunderstanding here, but I'll try again -  the 'Theatrical' cut of ALIEN on the 'Quadrilogy' dvd set is identically colour-timed throughout to match the 'darkened'/'stylized' look of the newly colour-timed 'Director's Cut'...compared to the 'Theatrical' cut of ALIEN in it's previous releases. 

Whether due to 'branching' or being deliberately done to match the new look of the 'Director's Cut or not, I don't know, but either way, this new colourization is very different to how the 'Theatrical' cut always used to look.

I agree with ImperialFighter.  The color timing of the DVD release on the Quadrilogy set (=Fox, CE) is different from the color timing of previous DVD releases.  While I actually like it, I understand why ImperialFighter does not.  This might be because of the branching, but I have no doubt that the change in color timing is deliberate.  Scott tends to do this for remastered versions of his films.

ImperialFighter said:

zombie84 said:

The colour timing on the DC is pretty much the same as on the theatrical edition, Imperial Fighter. Its only the Brett scene that was significantly altered. Which is why they ought to have branched it.

Not sure if there's a misunderstanding here, but I'll try again -  the 'Theatrical' cut of ALIEN on the 'Quadrilogy' dvd set is identically colour-timed throughout to match the 'darkened'/'stylized' look of the newly colour-timed 'Director's Cut'...compared to the 'Theatrical' cut of ALIEN in it's previous releases. 

Whether due to 'branching' or being deliberately done to match the new look of the 'Director's Cut or not, I don't know, but either way, this new colourization is very different to how the 'Theatrical' cut always used to look.

 I understood what you are saying. But you are mistaken.

What I am saying is that the way the DC is timed is actually accurate to the original cinematography. Except the Brett scene, and that's it as far as I know. I don't recall any other intentional/radical re-colouring. So the theatrical cut ought to be using the DC footage and not the previous transfers because the way the film should look is basically the way the DC looks, not necessarily the way it looked on TV and in video from the 1980s and 1990s.

Again, one shouldn't judge based off the previous releases, which were derived from Laserdisc. That's been the entire problem here. The DC timing may not be 100% perfect, because no transfer ever can be for an older film simply because the colours will no longer exist in any reliable way, and perhaps the DC is a bit punchier than it should be, but its closer to watching something from the original negative than any previous version of the film, including original prints. Previous home video versions were washed out, red shifted, and had artificial midrange saturation in accordance with home video telecine trends before the 2000s.

Its kind of how everyone was complaining that the Death Star interiors were blue in the 2004 DVD release. "It should be grey like the previous versions!" But the previous versions were actually wrong. You can see this in the new Apocalypse Now BD that comes out, which is coloured more accurately to the original release but looks quite a bit different from previous versions (which were also supposedly supervised with the DP).

So do you guys think the Blu release is correct or not, I still have not gotten around to watching them yet been playing TFU 2, actually I have not even broken the seal yet, but plan on watching very soon, but am curious of your guys opinions on this.

zombie84 said:

What I am saying is that the way the DC is timed is actually accurate to the original cinematography. Except the Brett scene, and that's it as far as I know. I don't recall any other intentional/radical re-colouring. So the theatrical cut ought to be using the DC footage and not the previous transfers because the way the film should look is basically the way the DC looks, not necessarily the way it looked on TV and in video from the 1980s and 1990s.

Forgetting the previous tv, video, dvd releases for a moment, when I went to see ALIEN on the big screen back in '79 a couple of times, the colour pallette certainly didn't have the various 'darkened'/'stylized' hues that the 'Director's Cut' does, which I caught on the big screen too, on it's limited release.  I was very struck by how different it looked from how it seemed in it's earlier releases, and not in a good way.  I find it almost unwatchable compared to it's earlier releases, which I've been so used to seeing over the years, and will be disappointed if the blu-ray 'Theatrical' has been done in the same way as the 'Quadrilogy' 'Theatrical' was. 

But either way, the look of the 'Director's Cut' has definately been altered a lot, compared to previous ALIEN releases which showed a more natural colouration throughout to the amazing sets, costumes, and miniatures.  In my estimation anyway.

wow, I just looked at the review of this set at Bluray.com,  their are two versions of each movie, the original theatrical release and a special edition or director's cut.  Wow.   Why can't other movies be released this way?   

dark_jedi said:

So do you guys think the Blu release is correct or not

Personally, I'm holding off the blu-ray 'Anthology' set for now, as I'm only interested in the additional extras at this point, which is why I'm interested to hear from anyone that can confirm if it's ALIEN 'Theatrical' cut is just the same 'Director's Cut'-colouration as it was on the 'Quadrilogy' dvd set, or not.

I guess if it is (regardless of whether the Brett/Jonesy scene is different or not), then it's certainly 'correct' in Ridley's view now.  Which is fair enough, but then I didn't like the look of his colour-tampering for BLADE RUNNER:The Final Cut either, compared to how BLADE RUNNER originally looked!  And why I'm disappointed Cameron seems to have gone the same way with ALIENS now...

Anyway, here's just a few examples of some screenshots which give an idea of how dark and different some scenes look.  Although these can't give as good an idea as comparing the different dvds on a tv, they should give a rough idea overall.  The red in the 'chestburster' scene looks more pink than the previous blood-red dvd release for instance, and some scenes have a more 'washed-out' colour to them now too.  It varies...

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Alien-Appendix-7-The-ALIEN-SAGA-Archive/post/425702/#TopicPost425702

* EDIT * - this link didn't work for a day or so when I first posted this comment, but I've typed it correctly now.

I think that there is room for an intermediate position between Zombie84's and ImperialFighter's.  On one hand the old DVD and LD home video releases were often red shifted and washed out.  They also frequently had their contrast boosted. 

On the other hand, remastered Blu-ray transfers (by which I mean true remasters, not DNR scrubbing of old ones) that attempt to recreate the way that prints originally looked often appear strikingly different in terms of colors, because the old transfers were inaccurate; however, as Zombie84 stated, recreating the original appearance of films is never completely accurate.  It is possible that, even with the best intentions, those who restore films sometimes overcompensate in their attempts to restore how films originally looked.  The blue-cyan shift that is increasingly seen on many Blu-rays can be excessive, in my opinion.

The tendency of certain directors to revise how their films look also has to be taken into account.  I am not prepared to accept  that every time a Blu-ray looks different from previous releases it is all down to ENR emulation or an attempt to restore the theatrical look.  The Blu-ray-is-always-right attitude is just as extreme as the attitude of those who cannot accept that a look to which they have become accustomed is the only way to present a film.

EDIT: Like dark_jedi, I have not yet opened my set.  From screenshots, I agree with msycamore that the Blu-rays look better than the last DVD releases in terms of color.  I am concerned about the cropping too though.  ImperialFighter, I will try to let you know about the colors on the theatrical cut of Alien after I watch my copy.

ImperialFighter said:

I'm interested to hear from anyone that can confirm if it's ALIEN 'Theatrical' cut is just the same 'Director's Cut'-colouration as it was on the 'Quadrilogy' dvd set, or not.

I guess if it is (regardless of whether the Brett/Jonesy scene is different or not)

Do you have any specific scenes you would like checked? I can check this for you this afternoon, I have the DVD set and now the Blu-ray set, also what is this Brett/Jonesy scene you mention, I can check that for you to.