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Jabba the Hutt Strategy — Page 3

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I still like Shadows, I admit it is not perfect, but I felt it had a lot of the spirit of the OT present in it.

I don't see Dash as such a rip off as Han. The galaxy is bound to be full of his time, mercenaries and pilot/fighters for hire. I didn't like that they had him fly in the battle on Hoth, it felt like they were trying too hard with that one. And yeah, I have always been bugged by the close relationship with Xizor and the Emperor. It just doesn't fit, especially the idea that he would allow Xizor in the room with him while discussion the importance of killing or turning Luke to the darkside. Just isn't the kind of thing that seems like a cunning galactic dictator would do. In the end it really comes off as Palpatine having been played the fool, though they do kind of make the suggestion that the Emperor was using him to test Vader.

As for Boba Fett's role, hmm, I don't seem to remember him having an especially big role beyond "Look! There is slave 1, get it! Oh darn, it got away!"

And Jix? He was one of Jabba's bikers perhaps? I really don't remember too well even though I have read the book more than once. Obviously he wasn't cool enough to stand out to me.

And as for the Outrider showing up in the special edition of A New Hope (I am assuming that is the SOTE reference that you are annoyed at having been placed in the SE, it is the only one I know of), never really bothered me. It seems like more of an easter egg than anything else, as it is barely there and if you blink you miss it. Honestly, if you were not looking for it, you'd never catch it. Bet a lot of people reading this thread don't even know it is in there.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I can definitely see how people would think of Dash as a Han Solo ripoff.  In fact, it's possible that's what they were going for.  Although, since Lando was already a Han substitute, it seems strange why they had to add another one.  I think it was mostly to give a new character to play as in the video game.  Remember that Shadows was more than the novel.  To George it was, "A new Star Wars movie with everything but the movie."  Luke and co. were the focus of the novel, Dash was the focus of the game, and Boba Fett was the focus of the comics.  And since it was the same overall story, those paths would occasionally collide.  It seems logical that Dash flying at Hoth was just fan service, so you could play at Hoth on your N64.  And it had good ramifications:  that first level of SotE was the inspiration for the Rogue Squadron series that I love so much.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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 (Edited)

C3PX said: I still like Shadows, I admit it is not perfect, but I felt it had a lot of the spirit of the OT present in it.

See that's precisely one of the things I have against it -it felt totally at odds with the spirit of the OT to me. No spirit of the OT in it at all. It was very 90s. I feel it doesn't fit with the OT any more than 1997's SE cgi cutesey Jabba. And I see Shadows as trying to shove inappropriate 90s stuff into the OT, which is precisely what the SE dd.

C3PX said:

As for Boba Fett's role, hmm, I don't seem to remember him having an especially big role beyond "Look! There is slave 1, get it! Oh darn, it got away!"

And Jix? He was one of Jabba's bikers perhaps? I really don't remember too well even though I have read the book more than once. Obviously he wasn't cool enough to stand out to me.

Jix and Boba Fett were amply covered in the Shadows of Empire comic and Jix had his own spin-off comic as well. The Shadows comic is as much part of the project and story as the novel and video game.

I don't see Dash as such a rip off as Han. The galaxy is bound to be full of his time, mercenaries and pilot/fighters for hire. I didn't like that they had him fly in the battle on Hoth, it felt like they were trying too hard with that one. And yeah, I have always been bugged by the close relationship with Xizor and the Emperor. It just doesn't fit, especially the idea that he would allow Xizor in the room with him while discussion the importance of killing or turning Luke to the darkside. Just isn't the kind of thing that seems like a cunning galactic dictator would do. In the end it really comes off as Palpatine having been played the fool, though they do kind of make the suggestion that the Emperor was using him to test Vader.

 Well, you get some of my annoyance anyway, then.

And as for the Outrider showing up in the special edition of A New Hope (I am assuming that is the SOTE reference that you are annoyed at having been placed in the SE, it is the only one I know of), never really bothered me. It seems like more of an easter egg than anything else, as it is barely there and if you blink you miss it. Honestly, if you were not looking for it, you'd never catch it. Bet a lot of people reading this thread don't even know it is in there.

Well, I've had it said to me that the Outrider was put in the SE to make Shadows movie-level canon. I sure don't appreciate any attempt to make Shadows movie-level canon. And Shadows is very much expanded universe and expanded universe doesn't belong in the OT, so shoehorning Shadows references into the OT in the SE really pisses me off. The Outrider wasn't the only thing -there was also Shadows-style swoop bikes and there may have been more.

 

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Gaffer Tape said:

Thanks for reviving my old thread!  I enjoy seeing it again.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  I enjoy Shadows of the Empire, which you hate.  I consider the Jabba section the absolutely worst part of the OT (as my initial post exhaustively explains).  Nothing we can do except continue on, I guess, although I would love to hear your opinions on why you think it's wonderful.

Jabba and his cronies were marvellously portrayed. The Jabba setting was thoroughly realized. The heroes got to do cool things. Luke came back all mature and confident and powerful and beat the crap out of Jabba's thugs. Leia got to kill Jabba. Han came back and killed bloody Boba Fett. It was fun. It was vivid and alive and well-imagined. It was enthusiastic and rousing. It was great for Luke, who really came into his own. It was hands down one of the most enjoyable parts of the trilogy. It was a classic example of the uncompromisingly positive and alive spirit that appeared in the OT but was absent from so much of the PT. I really don't get how anybody can fail to enjoy it. I hate it when people go on saying ROTJ was an inferior movie. It wasn't. ROTJ was a great movie that stands on the level of the first two movies. Sure, the ewoks weren't the best choice, but they're done well enough. With the Jabba section and the Luke-Vader-Emperor section and Vader's redemption, ROTJ has some of the best stuff in the trilogy. With the Jabba section Star Wars returned with a vengeance and the movie went on to give us a great piece of Star Wars. I remember when ROTJ came out it was the great return of Star Wars. It was my favorite movie for years. ROTJ was the most vigorous and alive of the OT, putting it at a polar opposite position from the dead-spirited PT.

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Well, I'll still argue that ROTJ is the least of the OT, but it's the Jabba stuff I mind while the ewoks don't bother me at all.  Aside from Luke's part of the story and Leia's kick-ass bikini, everything seems to be either a retread or not as well-realized as the previous movies.  And it certainly didn't benefit from suddenly becoming the last chapter of a trilogy when it was originally supposed to launch three more sequels.  Obviously the main problem was the Leia/sister thing that always felt tacked on and implausible, even when I was nine.  And Robot Chicken brilliantly parodied the end of the movie with their scene of the imperials arguing why they can no longer fight back even with Vader and the emperor dead.  But while I agree that the Jabba stuff was fun adventure and showed off Luke as more heroic, I stand by my reasons I posted when I started this thread.  It seems it was written to let the characters do things, but nobody seemed to bother to make sure it actually made any sense or was an intelligent plan.

...which it wasn't.

 

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Another thing that I thought about the other day while watching ROTJ on Spike-

 

What explanation is Han given for Luke's departure from Endor?

"Oh, Luke, yeah- he, um, went out for a gallon of milk- on the Death Star. It was more important than staying here and helping us with the shield generator"

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Mielr said:

What explanation is Han given for Luke's departure from Endor?

"Oh, Luke, yeah- he, um, went out for a gallon of milk- on the Death Star. It was more important than staying here and helping us with the shield generator"

Luke felt Vader's presence on Endor and felt he was endangering the mission. So he decided to confront his father... but not before telling Leia she is his sister.

Lucas also continues to lead the fight for film preservation. "It's amazing," he says, "that you have to fight the studios to get them to preserve their films. . . . Parts of 'Dr. Strangelove' are gone; some of the music is lost. Kubrick is having to photograph individual frames to create a new fine-grain negative. That's madness, tragic madness."

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When is Han told that Vader is Luke's father?

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Mielr said:

When is Han told that Vader is Luke's father?

I don't know. I'm watching Return of the Jedi right now, so I'll pay attention. I never thought about whether Han is informed of the relationship between Vader, Luke and Leia before. I only remember the scene where she tells Han Luke is her sister.

Lucas also continues to lead the fight for film preservation. "It's amazing," he says, "that you have to fight the studios to get them to preserve their films. . . . Parts of 'Dr. Strangelove' are gone; some of the music is lost. Kubrick is having to photograph individual frames to create a new fine-grain negative. That's madness, tragic madness."

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StormtroopersAreBetter said:
Mielr said:

When is Han told that Vader is Luke's father?

I don't know. I'm watching Return of the Jedi right now, so I'll pay attention. I never thought about whether Han is informed of the relationship between Vader, Luke and Leia before. I only remember the scene where she tells Han Luke is her sister.

 

uh...brother?

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StormtroopersAreBetter said:
Mielr said:

When is Han told that Vader is Luke's father?

I don't know. I'm watching Return of the Jedi right now, so I'll pay attention. I never thought about whether Han is informed of the relationship between Vader, Luke and Leia before. I only remember the scene where she tells Han Luke is her sister.

That's my point- I don't think he WAS told. So, that makes things that much more confusing when you try to think of a possible explanation told to Han about why Luke left. Leia won't tell Han what's going on, and he only finds out about the Luke/Leia relationship after the DS explodes.

From Han's perspective, what reason would Luke have to go to kill Vader? What could be more important than helping the rebels destroy the shield generator so that Lando and the others can destroy the DS and kill the Emperor (and Vader too, presumably)?

WE know that Luke leaves to confront his father- but Han doesn't know this.

 

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Hmm, I smell really creepy Luke/Leia sister/sister fanart could come from that typo.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Johnny Ringo said:
StormtroopersAreBetter said:
Mielr said:

When is Han told that Vader is Luke's father?

I don't know. I'm watching Return of the Jedi right now, so I'll pay attention. I never thought about whether Han is informed of the relationship between Vader, Luke and Leia before. I only remember the scene where she tells Han Luke is her sister.

uh...brother?

&%$!

Lucas also continues to lead the fight for film preservation. "It's amazing," he says, "that you have to fight the studios to get them to preserve their films. . . . Parts of 'Dr. Strangelove' are gone; some of the music is lost. Kubrick is having to photograph individual frames to create a new fine-grain negative. That's madness, tragic madness."

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I presume Han was told Luke left because he felt he was jeopardising their mission.

That is Vader knew Luke was there, if Luke stayed Vader could find the location of the Rebels, by Luke leaving and turning himself in he could divert Vader's attention away.

I guess it's one thing that a squadron of Stormtroopers think that a small band of Rebels may be somewhere on moon covered in Forest but it's another if you've got Vader obsessively tracking your asses. 

That's the way I see it and I guess it works.

 

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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Well, I just can't ever let this thread die, can I?!  But I have a good reason for resurrecting it again.  I actually just finished editing together a video version of my original argument!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlx2ItNLeFM

It's a bit premature for me to be posting this since it hasn't processed yet as of this writing, but I'm just too excited to wait.

Ooh, wait!  It's ready!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Gaffer Tape said:

Hmm, I smell really creepy Luke/Leia sister/sister fanart could come from that typo.

 

 Meh. The sexiness of the taboo itself would be killed by the fact that there isn't sufficient tension between Luke and Leia in the films.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Damnit, DF!  Comment on the video, not a post I made a month ago!  =P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlx2ItNLeFM

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Only because you're so cool. I left a comment.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Yeah, you can't see it in frame, but the t-shirt says "Original Gangsta" at the bottom.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Original Gangsta. XD

The vid is pretty good. From a logical stand-point, I guess they really didn't need Leia to be the actual rescuer. Lando had gained Jabba & Co.'s trust, knew the place from the inside out... it could have easily been left to him to rescue Han without needlessly risking others.

The thought behind the plan was a fail. Luke is a failed planner and needy of credits.

Ewoks are fail.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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Can't watch the video as youtube is blocked on this damn work computer, but will check it out at home.  I'm a big fan of this thread and am glad to see it back - the jabba strategy is wholly crap.

War does not make one great.

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Great video Gaffer. I foresee a new youtube series, The Angry, Confused, Jabba Rescue Plan Hating, Film Reviewing Geek. You could give guys like Confused Matthew and The Angry Nintendo Video Game Nerd a run for their money.

And the bit with the chair cracked me up, right before the comment popped up on the video I was thinking, "Wow, he really needs to oil that chair."

Well, now it is out there in the open. As more and more people begin watching this video, they will realize the logical FU that the whole Jabba's Palace bit as been from the very beginning, and begin to talk about it with their friends. I predict the whole thing will spread like a minor epidemic until it finally reaches George. Once George hears of this, he will reveal that it was always in his original vision that the Jabba Palace rescue was intended to be completely logical, but due to technical limitation of the 80's, they had to compromise and go for an illogical plan instead. 

Of course you realize that this means YOU Gaffertape, will be responsible for the extreme changes that this scene undergoes in the new, possibly upcoming, Blu-ray Specialestester Edition of Return of the Jedi.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Gaffer Tape said:

 Luke knew the deck had a small thermal exhaust port that would start a chain reaction....

 

 

;-)

 

Sorry I missed this before.  Damn, and YouTube is blocked at work.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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C3PX said:

Great video Gaffer. I foresee a new youtube series, The Angry, Confused, Jabba Rescue Plan Hating, Film Reviewing Geek. You could give guys like Confused Matthew and The Angry Nintendo Video Game Nerd a run for their money.

And the bit with the chair cracked me up, right before the comment popped up on the video I was thinking, "Wow, he really needs to oil that chair."

Well, now it is out there in the open. As more and more people begin watching this video, they will realize the logical FU that the whole Jabba's Palace bit as been from the very beginning, and begin to talk about it with their friends. I predict the whole thing will spread like a minor epidemic until it finally reaches George. Once George hears of this, he will reveal that it was always in his original vision that the Jabba Palace rescue was intended to be completely logical, but due to technical limitation of the 80's, they had to compromise and go for an illogical plan instead. 

Of course you realize that this means YOU Gaffertape, will be responsible for the extreme changes that this scene undergoes in the new, possibly upcoming, Blu-ray Specialestester Edition of Return of the Jedi.

Yeah, I'll call myself the ACJRPHFRG for short.  Kinda rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? ^_~

And I was cringing when I edited the thing and noticed that horrible chair noise.  I didn't notice it in the least when I was filming.  Oy.

Hmm, my fault, though, huh?  Well, he'll just half-ass it anyway.  He'll probably throw in some dark-side force creature who sits on Luke's shoulder and whispers bad plans in his ear.

Badd Despotter:  Hey, Luke.  It would be a great plan, and totally in line with the good side if you send all your friends in to get captured first before you show up.

Luke:  Really, Badd?

Badd Despotter:  Sure!  And Obi-Wan would really be proud of you if you killed every reveller on the skiff!  In fact, I bet it would make you a full Jedi!

Luke:  Wow.  Really, Badd?

(Later)

Luke:  I sure am glad I got rid of that guy.  But with a name like Badd, how would I have known he wasn't good?

And then the movie gets better.

 

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.