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Jabba the Hutt Strategy

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Recently, there was a Battle of Yavin thread discussing the intelligence of the Rebels' attack on the Death Star.  Here, I'm going to do something similar because, after just having thought it through for a few seconds I realize that I can make absolutely no sense of the plan to rescue Han Solo from Jabba in Return of the Jedi.  Maybe someone can help me figure out the logic in their plan.  First, let's go over the sequence of events:

Lando gets a job as a guard (not seen but must predate others)
C-3PO and R2-D2 offer themselves into servitude
Leia hands Chewbacca into custody
Leia attempts to free Han but fails and is put into slavery
Luke attempts to bargain and fails
Luke and co. kill everybody

I mean, the way it all turns out, it works out for the best with Leia killing Jabba, R2 passing Luke his lightsaber, all that stuff, but did Luke really forsee exactly how it would turn out and plan accordingly?  If Luke was so sure that they'd have to fight, why not just go in and slaughter Jabba's forces from the outset rather than sending his friends in one at a time?  Okay, I'm getting off track.  Let me go through this in detail.

Okay, Lando somehow infiltrates the palace and gets a job as a guard.  I can only assume that he was there for reconnaissance:  transmitting data to the rest to better prepare their own attacks.  Alright, fine, I can definitely see the plausibility in that.  Moving on:

C-3PO and R2-D2 present themselves to Jabba.  R2 has a message for Jabba from Luke.  He presumably (and according to Shadows of the Empire definitely) knows that Luke is going to offer them to Jabba in exchange.  R2 is also secretly carrying Luke's lightsaber.  R2 knows everything.  3PO obviously knows absolutely nothing about this plan.  But what if Jabba had been like, "Yeah, sure, that works for me.  You guys stay here, and I'll hand over Han."  Would Luke have made good on his deal and just abandoned the droids?  Sure, I'm certain the good guys didn't expect that to work, but what would they have done if Jabba had agreed to the terms?  Would they have come in and killed everybody anyway in order to get them back?  It seems ridiculous to offer up more hostages when you're trying to get someone out of there already.  But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now and just say that Luke needed a safe place to keep his lightsaber... just in case (because apparently Lando would have been strip searched or something).

Next, Leia (disguised as Boussh) delivers Chewbacca to Jabba for, ultimately, the sum of 35,000 credits.  At first, I can understand this.  Leia needs to earn their trust.  And then, later in the night, she can rescue Han.  But this is where everything up to here falls apart.  Once again, they're diluting their forces and creating an even larger hostage situation... by their own choice.  They're literally giving away their people to Jabba.  I mean, I guess the Alliance was really hurting for credits, so that's why they sold out Chewie?  And why?  Why did they need Leia to unfreeze Han?  They already had three of their own in Jabba's palace who could have done the job.  Hell, why couldn't Lando have just done the very same thing in the very beginning, precluding the need for the droids or Chewbacca or Leia?  And what if Leia had succeeded?  "Come on.  We gotta get you out of here"?  Is Lando, meanwhile, rescuing the droids or Chewbacca from prison?  Seemingly not, since he immediately shows up to apprehend Leia on Jabba's orders.  But even if he was out rescuing people they willingly handed over to the enemy, that's just needlessly complicating things!  Things would have been much more simple if only one person had been in there rather than, at this point, six, including Han!

And then, finally, we have Luke.  Luke does a pretty good job getting by Bib Fortuna.  He attempts to bargain (again) with Jabba, this time in person.  However, he only demands that Han and Chewbacca be released.  He doesn't mention the droids or the very serviceable wench right in front of him.  Once again, what if Jabba had caved?  What if Luke had scared him into letting them go?  Would Luke then have gone, "Oh, yeah, and I'll need those other guys back too"?  Well, obviously, that failed.  Action ensued, that failed as well, so Luke, Han, and Chewie were all scheduled to die.

And we all know the story from there.  Luke gets his lightsaber, mows everybody in his path down, and then, to add insult to injury, blows up the entire ship, leaving not a single survivor (unless you count Boba Fett... maybe).  Unless their intention always was to bring as much carnage and death to Tatooine as humanly possible, that plan had FAIL written all over it.

And they say Jedi don't take revenge.  ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Oh, and I almost forgot.  What right did Luke have to demand Chewbacca's release?  Jabba paid for Chewbacca!  Jabba paid one of Luke's operatives for Chewbacca.  Assuming Leia didn't still have the credits on her when she was captured, would Luke have offered Jabba a refund?  Probably not since he immediately came in with demands and mind tricks.  Geez, is it just me or are the good guys, aside from being incredibly short-sighted and stupid, unnecessarily deceptive and underhanded?

Overall, I see it possible that someone might defend this by saying that they planned for the worst possible scenario.  My rebuttal is that they only planned for the worst possible scenario... and the worst possible scenario in a very specific way.  I mean, really, if any single thing had gone "right" in their plan, then they would have been screwed!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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The rescue in ROTJ has always been incredible unbelievable and made no sense at all. The Jabba palace bit of the movie is probably one of the worst bits of the OT IMHO. But the Rancor battle, the scene with Luke slashing up everyone on the barge, the original sarlacc, and Leia choking Jabba to Death in her metal bikini all make up for it... mostly.

Though I must say, there is nothing in the entirety of ROTJ that makes it worth sitting through Jedi Rocks for, NOTHING!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Yes, the metal bikini is great, and I do enjoy the swashbuckling action towards the end.  But since you bring it up, something that's always bothered me is how seemingly tame it is.  My girlfriend and I recently had an OT viewing session, and we both agreed and laughed over how useless Luke's lightsaber was!  He was killing people left and right, knocking them into the sarlaac pit and slashing through people... yet there was absolutely no dismemberment at all!  It was almost as if he was hitting people with a baseball bat.  He'd hit people with this blade of light that can cut through anything, and they'd just be knocked backwards!  I mean, I know if they'd shown Luke slicing body parts off of dozens of extras, they'd probably have gotten an R rating, but it's just so silly at the same time!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Perhaps Luke's newly built lightsaber had a stun setting so he didn't have to kill - after all, that would lead to the Dark Side.... :p

Now if Leia was all feisty and stuff, how did they manage to get her into that bikini...it's not like they took her into slavery and said 'this is your new uniform,' is it?

How did one cannon manage to blow up an entire sail barge - 'point it at the deck'...wouldn't that have just shot a hole in the floor?

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Sort of like how we're quickly shooting numerous holes into the plausibility of the first half hour of the movie?  ^_~  But I dunno, I guess Jabba had his barge's weaponry illegally enhanced to have the firepower to blow up municipalities in one shot.  Either that or Luke knew the deck had a small thermal exhaust port that would start a chain reaction and destroy the entire station once Leia fired a shot at it.  I mean, that is kinda his thing.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Good stuff, Gaf.  Gave me a chuckle.

As for this:
 

Gaffer Tape said:

C-3PO and R2-D2 present themselves to Jabba.  R2 has a message for Jabba from Luke.  He presumably (and according to Shadows of the Empire definitely) knows that Luke is going to offer them to Jabba in exchange.  R2 is also secretly carrying Luke's lightsaber.  R2 knows everything.  3PO obviously knows absolutely nothing about this plan.  But what if Jabba had been like, "Yeah, sure, that works for me.  You guys stay here, and I'll hand over Han."  Would Luke have made good on his deal and just abandoned the droids?

If i'm not mistaken, Luke is seeking an audience with Jabba at this point and the droids are a token of "goodwill".  So he is not trying to exchange them for Han.  Still, the "plan" doesn't look too sound.......

Pink Floyd -- First in Space

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Okay, you might be right about that, but if you are, it just proves my point even further!  He's giving them away!  I guess the original plan was just to offer up Chewie as a token of goodwill as well, but when he saw how easily Jabba took the droids, he went, "Hey, Leia, screw giving our friends away!  Maybe we can make some money off of this!  Alright.  Here's the plan..."

Luke Skywalker:  first of the new Jedi or entrepreneurial douchebag?  You decide.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Gaffer Tape said:

"Hey, Leia, screw giving our friends away!  Maybe we can make some money off of this!  Alright.  Here's the plan..."

 

That made me laugh really hard.

I guess the rational behind the "You will deliver Han Solo and the Wookie to me" was that they were making it look like Chewie got captured by Bossh (or whoever Leia was disguised as), so as far as Jabba knew, Chewie came into his possession the same way Han did, via purchase from a bounty hunter.

Honestly, Jabba's forces in his palace were pretty primitive, some weirdos standing around with blaster pistols on their belts, but the main guards are obese mutant hogs with "vibro axes" with I guess having the ability to vibrate makes them just that much deadlier than your run of the mill axes, but it still seems like once they had confirmation that Han was just hanging around as a decoration in Jabba's place that Leia could have pulled some strings and had a highly trained and heavily armed squad of Rebel soldiers infiltrate the palace and pull him out of there while probably leaving far less bodies lying around than Luke ended up doing.

Han is the guy who rescued the princess and helped blow up the Death Star, only to end up saving the princess again and ends up getting captured in the process. Seems like the Alliance would be willing to lend a few guys to securing his rescue.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Well, maybe it's because of the relationship that Jabba had had with the Old Republic, what with their Jedi Knights saving Little Stinky and all, that Jabba's loyalty would lie with the Empire that took the Republic's place.  Therefore, pressure from the Rebellion would mean nothing!

I know, that doesn't make any sense, but neither does the rest of this!

But here's something that does make sense.  I said earlier that Lando could have simply unfrozen Han.  Has everybody forgotten that he would also have been the most obvious, not to mention qualified, choice?  After all, it was Lando's freezing chamber that put Han away, so surely he would have know the most about safely deactivating it.

Come to think of it what did Lando do besides pull his face mask down so he could more easily see out of his mouth, and then later have to be rescued by Han, the guy Lando was supposed to be rescuing?  Good thing that guy blew up the Death Star...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Gaffer Tape said:

Therefore, pressure from the Rebellion would mean nothing!

I didn't mean diplomatic pressure, I mean "aggressive negotiation" type pressure. Think of the scene where Leia enters while everyone is sleeping, I imagine that, only a squad of about 10 or 15 guys with big guns who, once everyone wakes up and realizes what is going on, start blasting through pounds of alien flesh on their way to Jabba's beautiful commemorative Han Solo collector's idem. Luke could have gone with them just for fun so he could knock people around with his lightsabre.

 

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Heh, yeah, I got what you meant.  Like I said, nothing in the first paragraph of my post made any sense.

But then again, if a group of 15 nameless extras with big guns can come in and do that, surely six main characters, one of whom is a lightsaber-wielding killing machine, one who pulled off some kind of vaguely awesome general-promoting maneuver at the Battle of Tanaab, one who is a swiss army knife of destruction, and one who's a freaking arm-dismembering Wookiee(!) could have accomplished the same thing if their almighty leader wasn't so dead set on getting them all captured, sexually molested, and eaten by not one but two giant monsters!

But I'm honestly beginning to think I made too much of an airtight argument.  I really expected and even hoped someone could come in and go, "Well, really, if you just want to be a hater, you'd overlook this extremely obvious and obviously genius tactical maneuver of..." and proceed to go into this overly technical explanation of how awesome everything about this rescue operation was.

But maybe that's impossible...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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astromech said:

Perhaps Luke's newly built lightsaber had a stun setting so he didn't have to kill - after all, that would lead to the Dark Side.... :p

Silly astromech.  Everybody knows that only killing major characters leads to the dark side.  You can kill as many extras as you want.  But you're right.  Luke must not have done much of the killing.  He just gently nudged them (with his lightsaber) off the skiff into a slow, painful death at the hands of the sarlaac.  Totally different than actually killing them.  ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I guess all I can say is it's a way to get all the heroes together.  Having them met up on screen after the events of ESB rather than going in all as one group, which it's as dramatic.

I don't have a problem with any of it. They obviously weren't the best laid plans because they all failed.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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Threepio's line about how Lando and Chewbacca "never returned from this awful place" still confuses me. Was he kept out of the loop on some aspects of the plan? Boussh and Chewie don't even show up until after the droids arrive!

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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*de-lurk*

Well, at the end of ESB it's Lando and Chewie who go after Han and I assume that line was meant to pick up the story from there.

Also I'm not sure how much contact they all had with one another. It almost seems like Luke was operating on his own for some reason. Maybe the droids just hadn't heard from Lando and Chewie since before they split up. Certainly Luke doesn't seem to have gotten much information from Lando or he'd have been prepared for the pit trap.

But the strangest thing to me is that Vader seemed to have no plan at all involving Han's rescue. He knew they'd try to rescue their friend, it's how he almost captured Luke in Cloud City. You'd think he would've tried the same trick again. The heroes don't seem worried that any Imperials might be waiting for them either.

I guess some sandtroopers might've shown up after the sail barge exploded, mistaking it for a sandpeople attack until they realised only Rebel heroes are that destructive.

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I know it was written more than ten years later, but Shadows of the Empire addresses most of those issues you brought up, Shadowheart. According to that, they had quite a bit of contact, and planned it all together. At the end of Shadows of the Empire, Luke is at Ben's old place recording the message for Jabba, Leia and Chewie are off together on their way to Jabba, and Lando had gone in sometime before. I suppose Shadows of the Empire has slightly more credit to it than your average EU, since Lucas was more involved in it. It wasn't just one book planned and written by a single writter, but a multimedia project including an action figure line and even a sound track. Also the fact that Dash Render's ship The Outrider makes a cameo appearance in the SE of ANH also seems to give more weight to it than your average EU. A lot of people hated Shadows, I loved it. The book may have not been the best written, but the story was great and really flowed well with the OT so well that if you didn't know any better you might think ROTJ was written after it. The PT couldn't even manage to do this.

For anyone who has not read Shadows of the Empire, I'd highly recomend going to your public library and picking up the audio book. It is well read, and the abridgment actually improves on many of the novel's weak points. To me, the audio book is the definitive version of SOTE. The video game was pretty awesome too, but the N64 graphics are very dated today.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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 (Edited)

Maybe so, but being able to hear those samples from The Empire Strikes Back's score certainly makes up for any of that.  It's hardly noteworthy today, but that was the first Star Wars game I played that actually sampled the soundtrack.  But, yeah, I loved SOTE as well, and, even though it's been a while since I've read it (and have a hard time remembering it), I don't really remember those weak points that everybody seems to mention.  I'd probably pick it up again right now if I wasn't in the process of reading the X-Wing books for the first time (just starting The Krytos Trap and loving this series, and I can't believe I waited until now to try it!).

Oh, yeah, and SilverWook pointed out something that I was going to say eventually.  That line always confused me, too.  I think we can all agree that 3PO was just hopelessly out of the loop for this entire plan, but would we be able to assume that Chewie had been there before?  If so, why wasn't he captured then, since there was a bounty on him?  But going back even further, if Jabba had a bounty out on Chewbacca as well, why didn't Boba Fett take Chewbacca when he took Han? 

But that line also reminds me of what someone here once said about the whole Jabba scenario, and why it seemed unlikely that he was stationed on Tatooine when The Empire Strikes Back was still the latest movie.  Lando's line is about "finding" Jabba.  If he was a well-known gangster with a palace on Tatooine, that shouldn't be too hard.  So there was some conjecture that Lucas only dumped him on Tatooine when he was writing Return.  Whatever thread that was went into more detail about why it wouldn't make that much sense for Jabba to be on Tatooine, but I guess that's not especially relevant to get into here.

Oh, and see you auntie, it's not that I have a problem that the plans failed.  After all, as I said earlier, if they hadn't failed, I see no way they would have successfully escaped.  My problem is is that I can't understand what their plans were trying to accomplish in the first place, because if any of them succeeded, then they'd be in a more difficult position than they were before.  But I do agree that having them show up in shifts, giving each character an introduction, was good from a dramatic standpoint... it just died a fiery death from a plausible narrative standpoint.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I don't have time for a lengthy reply right now, but I always viewed the plan as Luke getting everyone inside Jabba's palace so a rescue effort would be easier.  By getting everyone inside, he forced Jabba to leave the palace and go to the Sarlacc pit.  Without getting Han out of the carbonite and killing the rancor, thereby REALLY pissing Jabba off, there was no way to get Jabba to leave the palace.  Once he was outside, the rescue effort was going to be relatively painless and they'd be able to destroy Jabba's sailbarge at the same time.

It's far easier to take someone out when they're outside, relatively unprotected, than when they're inside their own palace, surrounded by their own people.

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You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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 (Edited)

I never really thought the whole Jabba the Hut sequence through, but I thought it was meant to be ambigious. The movie didn't spell out the whole strategy because it wanted the audience to interpret it themselves. I don't think Luke had respect for Jabba's right, he was going to do whatever necessary to get everything he wanted from him even if he had to kill everybody. That's one thing that I like about the perception they gave the jedi in the OT. They were tough protectors fighting for peace and wouldn't take no bullshit even if they ended up being a little uncivilized. In the PT they were a bunch of niave whimps.

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Janskeet said:

I never really thought the whole Jabba the Hut sequence through, but I thought it was meant to be ambigious. The movie didn't spell out the whole strategy because it wanted the audience to interpret it themselves. I don't think Luke had respect for Jabba's right, he was going to do whatever necessary to get everything he wanted from him even if he had to kill everybody. That's one thing that I like about the perception they gave the jedi in the OT. They were tough protectors fighting for peace and wouldn't take no bullshit even if they ended up being a little uncivilized. In the PT they were a bunch of niave whimps.

If I'm not mistaken, in the novelization, Luke gets some flack from Yoda after the rescue for his actions in Jabba's palace, especially for the force choke.

I'm sure Luke didn't really expect Jabba to give them up easily.  Hence why he was really focusing when he tried the mind trick the second time.  And you see Jabba's reaction.  It's quite obvious at that point that Luke didn't know how resilient Hutt's were to mind tricks (to the point that it doesn't work).  Of course, if he had been able to do that, it would have been a walk in the park.

I doubt that Luke would have killed everybody willy nilly.  That would have truly been something of the dark side.  No, Luke was only going to kill the people that were attacking them.  If you notice on the sail barge, I believe Luke lets a few of them run away because they aren't attacking anymore.  If he were hell bent on killing everyone, why let those few run away?

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You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Gaffer Tape said:

Maybe so, but being able to hear those samples from The Empire Strikes Back's score certainly makes up for any of that.  It's hardly noteworthy today, but that was the first Star Wars game I played that actually sampled the soundtrack.  But, yeah, I loved SOTE as well, and, even though it's been a while since I've read it (and have a hard time remembering it), I don't really remember those weak points that everybody seems to mention.

 

That graphics of Shadows for the 64 do not bother me, still one of my favorite games of all time. And actually, I thoughly enjoyed the book, but I noticed that it often gets a lot of flak. If I remember correctly, it does meander on quite a lot, the audio book helps with that and actually flows really well for an abridgment while not leaving out any important parts.

As for the X-Wing books, I still have not gotten around to reading them. Maybe I'll start on them sometime soon. I haven't read a SW book for a very long time. Since 1999, the only SW books I have read was the Revenge of the Sith novel. I read a bit of The Phantom Menace just because it was written by Terry Brooks, but I still found it kind of boring. I listened to the unabridged audio book of AOTC, and actually kind of enjoyed it, worked much better than the actual film did. Liked the extra bits of background on Dooku, as well as the added political stuff with Padme and the threats on her life. The Anakin and his feelings about his mother worked much better in the novel as well.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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 (Edited)

When I first saw the movie as a kid, and saw Luke's black outfit ... force choking the gammorean guards and how arrogantly he threatened to kill Jabba, I was afraid he had already turned to the dark side. To me it didn't feel at all like he had any other plan than to eradicate Jabba and his gang.

Even nowadays I think the whole rescue scene depicts the corrupting influence of his new found powers (i.e. 'delusions of grandure').

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Really?  I always viewed the black outfit as that of a Knight, despite what Obi-Wan wore in ANH.  It wasn't until years later that I looked at it more as a symbol of his struggle with the dark side (which is what Lucas originally intended, don't know if he's changed that now or not).

F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.