You mentioned that you took out the Jabba the Hutt scene. That scene connects Episode IV with Episode VI as it was meant to be. In fact, I seem to remember that the book mentions Jabba the Hutt's conversation with Han Solo. I would like to see that scene put back with improvements, not removed, unless there's a good reason for the removal of it. I love the rest of the movie, though.
It isn't particularly clear who this is adressed to, but I do have an opinion on this scene.
In the special edition, it was nice to see a new scene, but Jabba didn't look like Jabba. At all. Han stepped on his tail, rather than over it, and Jabba made an unpleasent squeal. Pointless "humor" like the ASP droid hitting the probe or the Jawa falling off the Ronto.
In the 2004 version, Jabba looks a little more like himself, but still looks off. Maybe it's his colors, maybe it's because he doesn't have a lazy eye, maybe it's that his eyes are yellow, maybe they made him too small, but it's unpleasent and unconvincing.
Even if they could make it actually look like Jabba in Return of the Jedi, it isn't a necessary scene. Jabba talks about how Han owes him, like Greedo has, and then talks about placing a bounty on him, while Greedo was already there a few minutes before. Not to mention it seems a bit better with Jabba being mentioned in the fourth and fifth movies, then appearing in the sixth.
If Jabba did look like he does in ROTJ, and Han can step OVER his tail, it could be a deleted scene, or something.
The problem with the scene is that, when it was cut, the important dialogue was moved. So the Greedo scene, originally simply meant to be a "Holy-shit-Han's-a-badass" scene now became an important exposition scene as well.
But when they added the Jabba scene back in, they didn't revert the Greedo scene back to its original dialogue. "Even I get boarded sometimes. Do you think I had a choice?" is in both scenes ... because the line in the Greedo scene is lifted directly from the Jabba scene.
So any fan edit that includes the Jabba scene really needs to "fix" the Greedo scene, which would just involve cutting the "Even I get boarded sometimes" line and re-doing the subtitles.
But then you run into the problem of, as "Something, something, something" said, Jabba not looking like Jabba. He looks like a shitty CG Hutt that may be a distant cousin of Jabba's, at best. The 1997 version didn't even look that good, and the 2004 version is still unacceptably shitty.
So, it's my personal opinion, based on those two facts and the fact that audiences for 20 years got along just fine with the Greedo scene and not the Jabba one, that the Jabba scene should stay out of Star Wars entirely.
Something, something, something, Dark Side said:
In the 2004 version, Jabba looks a little more like himself, but still looks off.
I think he looks like a Suliban there. :p
Hah, I had an answer all drafted up the other night, but my internet gave out before I could post it. But ChainsawAsh said pretty much all I had intended to anyway. It ended up on the cutting room floor for a reason, and it was not because of an unfinished special effect. It was excised, and the movie didn't suffer anything for its deletion. And, of course, older movies should not be modified to reflect changes in later movies.
That said, hello, and welcome to the boards. Hope you enjoy yourself!
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Gaffer Tape said:
It ended up on the cutting room floor for a reason, and it was not because of an unfinished special effect.
When all the revisionist lies are removed from the story, that's it in a nutshell. It was never intended to be in the film. It was an idea that was scrapped - as it should have been. Not knowing anything about the Jabba character - other than he was someone the untrustworthy pilot had to stay clear of - made for a much more interesting angle to the story. You know - the whole imagination thing.
beebech7117 said:
That scene connects Episode IV with Episode VI as it was meant to be.
The more you analyze the Jabba scene in ANH, the less sense it makes.
Like someone else said, the dialogue is repetitive. The Greedo scene already exposited the important parts of the Jabba scene.
But ya know what else? It doesn't. Make. Sense. This is Jabba, not Vader. Jabba is not a hands on kind of guy... thus the entire frickin' reason he hired bounty hunters in the first place! Jabba wouldn't personally go after Han. He'd send lackey after lackey after until one of them hit paydirt. Let someone else do the dirty work, Jabba would never risk his own neck.
And, Crispin's Han Solo trilogy books aside, Han wouldn't stick around on Tatooine if he was trying to avoid Jabba. So Tatooine can't be Jabba's main base of operations or else Han would never have felt safe there. If you're trying to avoid the Mafia, you don't hide in their back yard.
For reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with effects, there's simply no justifying the restored Jabba scene.
All I really want is each film as it was originally seen and heard in theaters; no fixes, corrections, "improvements" or modifications necessary.
Interesting you should bring that up. I remember some debate here at some point wondering whether or not, in context of the original film, Jabba was a native of Tatooine at all. Similar to the debate over whether the brown robes are Jedi robes or just Tatooine garb, it seems to have just become an element so ingrained into people's perception that, when it was time for those elements to be fleshed out, George just went the easy route. This is one of those things that I suppose I can give him the benefit of the doubt for, since we'll never know for sure, and, unlike a lot of his cover-ups, it's not glaringly obvious. However, I agree that it makes more sense that Han is simply hiding out on a planet far removed from the crime boss (planet that's the farthest from the bright center of the universe), and Greedo just happened to track him down. The only other thing we have to consider is the fact that, despite the fact that the scene was cut, Han did encounter Jabba that day in the docking bay. So is that evidence that he did live there, or did Greedo alert Jabba with enough time for Jabba to follow up on that personally from wherever he was? I guess we'll never know for sure.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
The Jabba scene in ANH:SE ruins Jabba's reveal in ROTJ. That's my main objection to it, aside from the fact that the CG and puppet Jabbas look nothing alike, and the ROTJ puppet Jabba is so superior to the CG Jabba.
Several good reasons for removing the scene have already been mentioned above. Here are a few more:
Is there anything in this scene's favour, you think? I can not see this scene as anything but redundant.
Gaffer Tape said:
However, I agree that it makes more sense that Han is simply hiding out on a planet far removed from the crime boss (planet that's the farthest from the bright center of the universe), and Greedo just happened to track him down.
Good point!
Btw. In the EU, Jabba's clan does not live much on Tatooine. He just inhabits the Bo'Marr monks' convent for a while (until the monks turn on the remaining entourage after Jabba's death).
Correction made in edit: The Boba Fett suit in ANH-SE was worn by Mark Austin, not Don Bies. Don Bies (great guy btw. I've met him in person. :D ) wore the suit in some shots inserted into the ROTJ-SE.
Darth Lars said:
Is there anything in this scene's favour, you think? I can not see this scene as anything but redundant.
It's in 3D on SW:R?
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
Darth Lars said:
Several good reasons for removing the scene have already been mentioned above. Here are a few more:
- This scene has become the first time that we see the Millenium Falcon. It ruins the "What a piece of junk" scene where the Falcon is revealed for the first time to Luke.
Oh, wow, I forgot to mention that. It totally ruins the reveal of the single most important space-faring vessel in the entire series. Rather than giving it an actual introduction, like a character, it's just... there. We're given no explanation as to what it is, what its importance is, or how Han feels about it. It's a central setpiece in that scene with absolutely nothing to do. Truly terrible and probably another reason why it was cut.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Darth Lars said:
Several good reasons for removing the scene have already been mentioned above. Here are a few more:
- This scene has become the first time that we see the Millenium Falcon. It ruins the "What a piece of junk" scene where the Falcon is revealed for the first time to Luke.
I never thought of it that way. Great point! Granted, perhaps the intro to the Falcon was created more through the music than through the dialogue of Luke and Han. Maybe if the music was different, then the Falcon wouldn't have been set up as important as we see it now. But that is all speculation. I love the scene as it ended up in the final cut. At least before the Special Edition.
Gaffer Tape said:
...the single most important space-faring vessel in the entire series.
If I may be so bold, wouldn't the most important space-fairing vessel in the entire series be the 2001 Space Odyssey pod? After all, if 3PO & R2 hadn't commandeered the thing, Ben & Luke would have never gotten involved. ;-)
Point taken. Maybe we should replace all promotional images of the Falcon with that little space pod. All the Christmas ornaments too. In fact, they should change it so that the pod destroys the second Death Star. ^_~
Anyway... I just thought of something. All things considered, I accept the meeting with Jabba to be canon (tail-stepping aside). It was an event that occurred, but we never needed to see it, nor were we supposed to. At any rate, to argue against my own point from earlier, I just remembered that line from the Greedo scene: "I was just on my way to see your boss," which admittedly does make it sound like Jabba lives nearby or at least on the same planet. So the events as they happened were: Luke and Ben make the deal with Han. Han is confronted by Greedo. Han returns to his ship and talks to Jabba (who apparently Han expected to show up there). Assuming Han was telling Greedo the truth, he would have gone to talk to Jabba immediately after having finished negotiating, presumably to tell him what, well, he did end up telling him: that he had just accepted a fare that would pay off his debt with interest.
I don't really know where I was going with all this: I just thought it was fun to step back and look at the events of Han's life that day.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Gaffer Tape said:
In fact, they should change it so that the pod destroys the second Death Star. ^_~
All kidding aside, I always sort of assumed Jabba was somewhat close by. Maybe the same planet, maybe a nearby planet that could be reached fairly quickly. That, or the "I was just going to see him..." was more of Han's BS to buy some time (most likely the case). Truthfully, Han just wasn't a good guy, regardless of what Lucas tried to SE him into decades later. The character worked because he wasn't a good guy.
Even though it isn't everyone's cup of tea - in the NPR radio version, Han is much more of a shit than he is in the film. In fact, he's truly unlikeable for the first few hours, and not in a cool, rogue sort of way - but in a selfish piece of crap sort of way. He fully intends to leave Luke, Ben, and the princess on the Death Star.
