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Ideas: I've been gone for some time now...

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 (Edited)

I’ve been gone for some time now. I am back. I am getting a very high-end DV-editing PC, dual screens, and using vegas 6 to do some of my own editing work. I have always planned on this project and reading here through the last few years has further inspired that. I love the work by magfan, what digital man has worked on sounds great and Trooperman’s ideas sound wonderful. Further I am excited to see Deleted magic. I know there has been much discussion over edits and what you’d do. And I am leaning more towards trooperman’s type edit that is a bit more aggressive (mine will still have its own feel of course). I am going to do several things with my favorite character Maul and my least favorite character Jar-Jar, to increase and decrease screen time effectively. I have been thinking aobut using several sources for a new creation, possibly some of the close-sounding lines from clone wars (the cartoon, with obi-won some of the lines match his voice well). I was also considering using some scenes from fan films, radio dramas and even movies not even star wars related to create some new scenes for the direction I want to go. I have to say I LOVE THE IDEA that trooperman had about the moonlight. I hope we all can work together in though and reality to make something wonderful to use each other for a springboard of inspiration and debate.

I would love to hear some thoughts on what you would like to see added and taken out. Even if its not there. Also on where you would grab some potential new material (sounds, voices, scenes, music, etc.)

Further, I know many edits just dump midicholorians and most hate the “immaculate conception”, as did I. Though I read this from T-bonz’ site…

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Wrap your head around this. Was Darth Plagueis really Palpatine’s master? Did Palpatine take the secret of Plagueis and have the midichlorians create life in the form of Anakin Skywalker? How does Palpatine know about Padmé and Anakin’s dreams? The film answers NONE of these questions outright but gives us plenty of room to speculate.


Any thoughts on that.

Thanks ahead of time for any help. And I love this board. Sorry I have been away. My computer was trashed for some time and work got heavy. I forgot to mention someone I enjoy talking to as well, Rikter, thanks for having me watch Clone Wars and that movie, Equilibrium was cool.

16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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Originally the script had Palpatine admitting to "creating" Anakin via the MidiChlorians...but I like the mystery of it all better. And the Midi's seem to fit in well with the Force after ROTS...Yoda said the Force is a field, surrounding and binding; Palp says that Plaguiesusus could use the Force to "influence" the Midi's. Seems to make more sense now. The Midi's is the thing that gives ppl a connection to the Force.
Which is the more foolish, the fool (the OT) or the fool who follows (the PT)?

"Stay back, or Mr...Fett gets it!"
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Good post, count. I agree. I was truly hating this midicholorians concept and the virgin birth, but now...having things come full circle and the immaculate conception be for evil, its at least got me thinking. My edit will be darker. I am working through this now. But I will be removing the silliness, slapstick, and corny CG scenes, extending scenes the darker scenes. The movie will have a more sinister tone...even ROTS which went more for the direction I will head the movies can be darker in tone and more moving. The story is also convoluted with characters and lines. The "roger, Roger" droids that guy flying the ship that is the worst actor EVER, that says "that little droid did it" about r2, etc. I am already working through the screenplay (and please if you have the final update of TPM, ATOC or ROTS PM me I have ones that are at various stages and are frustratingly different in spots...though enlightenly for research purposes). I have some new scenes I will add to. From some different films. One scene steals a shot from "The Village" where he is wearing a cloak in the tower surrounded by torches...jedi scene...obviously. I hate the indecisiveness of many of the characters too...umm, I think, ye...yes, well, I am not sure, etc. the PT is littered with it. It slows down the films makes the characters less driven, urgency is lost.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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Thanks for your comments about my edit, Obi-Wonton!

Music- I love to use classic music that wasn't actually written by John Williams, but sounds like SW music.

-If you are extending the nightmare sequence in Ep. II as I am, check out "Tapiola" by Sibelius, 15 minutes, 30 secs into it. There are also a couple good dramatic cues at around 11:15 and 12:15.

-"The Planets" by Holst sound a lot like Star Wars (part of it has been used in the temp tracks, which might explain that). "Mars" is good in particular.

-Another good one by Sibelius is the first movement of the Karelia Suite- I've found that that makes a perfect ending for Phantom Menace, instead of the juvenile sounding original. I synched it with the ending footage to see how it would work (out of curiosity), and not only did it have a completely appropriate build and crescendo (presumably to the end credits), it was the correct length, and not only that, it climaxes to the exact key on which the end credits begin.

Not sure if you wanted music advice, but I hope that helped in that department.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Absolutely! I PM'd you about some things. I look forward to your contributions. It is an exciting time for fans, no doubt. I'd love to see 1000 edits, they'd all be different, interesting interpretations of something we love and something would be cool out of all of them. Delving into new music, alternate scenes and fx is risky, but so compelling to me as it is you. Keep up all the good work.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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BTW, Trooperman do you have final scripts for TPM, AOTC or ROTS?
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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This seems a good a thread as any to share some ideas I have about Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul. Qui-Gon is my favorite characer, Maul is yours, so this should lead to some good discussion.

QUI-GON
Qui-Gon Jinn is my favorite Jedi, and in fact my favorite character in Star Wars. Liam Neeson being an incredible actor probably has something to do with it as well. His death in Episode 1, while necessary and expected, was emotional nonetheless. Any way to extend his role in the saga would be beneficial, as he is THE main character in 1, and his absence leaves an empty feeling throughout 2 and 3. Ben got a substantial comeback in ESB and RotJ; Qui-Gon deserves the same. Now, how to accomplish this? Voiceovers will be key, as unfortunately Jinn returning in spirit form would seem nearly impossible. One excellent source would be the Episode 1 tone poem. A version of it could be played, in Anakin's head I suppose, during Qui-Gon's funeral. The scene would have to be extended of course, but it could work. Another spot for it could be in Episode 3 when Anakin and Padme look out across Coruscant. However it might disrupt the eerie silence of the scene, and we wouldn't want to do that. Then there's Qui-Gon's short dialogue in Clone Wars. Even though it is not Liam Neeson, it sounds just like him, and could possibly be inserted as Anakin kills the Tusken Raiders. Other films are an excellent source for Neeson dialogue, as he has a tendency to play wise, mentor characters. Kingdom of Heaven, and especially Batman Begins might prove to be very useful. And of course there's Qui-Gon's deleted scene in RotS, which had better be on the DVD; that's a seriously important scene. It was suggested in another thread Qui-Gon could also speak to Yoda as he lies defeated on the floor of the Senate, influencing his decision to flee. That's an interesting scenario, but I'm not sure about the logistics of it all. I also have a thought about both Qui-Gon and Padme appearing in RotJ, but that's for another time.

MAUL
Darth Maul was an awesome villain, and it was a shame he had to be killed off so easily. Episode 3 gave Lucas a chance to bring him back in the form of General Grevious, but it was nothing but a missed opportunity. Grevious added nothing to the overall story as a character, and could EASILY have been a resurrected Maul. It was obvious all that was needed was a killing machine, so why invent a new one, a CYBERNETIC ALIEN no less, when you already have Maul in the perfect position to return in that form? Things were set up too well for him NOT to be Maul. But there are several logistics to be dealt with here. First off, the names. My solution is this: Since "Maul" is only mentioned by Sidious over a hologram, and "Grevious" is mentioned by numerous characters numerous times, regardless of which name you prefer, it would be prudent to change the character's name to "Darth Grevious." Which actually kind of fits: Plagueis>Sidious>Grevious. Secondly, wouldn't that make it THREE Sith? This also ties into the fact that Palpatine, Dooku, and Grevious are all working together, so Dooku being a rogue Jedi (as in Magnolia Fan's version) wouldn't quite work. Unless of course, through Grevious' new dialogue, it is revealed that Sidious and Grevious are manipulating Dooku for their own purposes (and Dooku is NOT Darth Tyranus; that character does not exist). Speaking of new Grevious lines, there is no question he should be dubbed over, in a mechanical voice as similar as possible to Maul's in Episode 1. If his fear speech from his tone poem could be worked in somewhere that would be great too. Some new dialogue along the lines of what Maul says to Obi-Wan in the infinities comic where he confronts him on Tatooine would go a long way in connecting the characters, with Grevious giving Obi-Wan his whole spiel before their duel. Grevious lightsabers would all be red, of his own making, not taken from Jedi; and when you think about it, his guards having double-bladed vibroblades makes a lot of sense considering his previous weapon of choice. Connections can be made musically as well. I really like the track "Grievous Speaks to Lord Sidious," so that can be incorporated into Episode 1, and the Sith chants that served as musical backup for Maul can be put into RotS. Overall, it will take a lot of work, but ultimately make for a stronger story with recurring menaces instead of one-off villains.

Hopefully I've shared some usefull ideas that can be used in future fan edits. I look forward to getting the technology required to make my own versions, as well as other video projects, so I can experiment with these ideas myself. I'm on the verge of getting a new laptop and digital camera, so I'll be asking for some advice on that in another thread. But for now, I offer my creative services to anyone who wants to discuss fan editing possibilities. As you can tell, I'm very interested in the process.
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As far as the tone poems I must admit I am bit ignorant when it comes to those I know about them, but I need to view them all now that you mentioned it. if I will play with a quicker edit removing the silliness and giving it a darker tone. Darth Maul I know had a line dropped "I told you there was more to this...the Jedi are involved." I was thinking about cutting the scene where Maul get cuts in half (I don't know if I like it), but it does link the Greivous thing. You're right though I'd thought of which name to choose myself to bridge it. Greivous would be easier for coninuity and it'd give so much more depth to Anakin and Obi-wan wanting to seek him out so badly. I was thinking about crosscutting a scene where Qui-gon drops to his knees when Grievous falls after Obi-wan shoots him making vengeance (and yes this jedi wants revenge for his master) darker (he has qui-gon's defiance after all). Grievous would be redubbed, I have very high-end audio software and should be able to credibly achieve this (especially with nothing to sync up). That is a wonderful point about his guards having vibroblades. I would love to play with the fight in Episode three and give him 2 dual sabers instead of 4 sabers, but I'll have to look at that, that may not be possible (I've only seen ROTS twice). Give me the dialogue for maul you are talking about. I know there was another line I've heard of that maul says "this is the beginning of the end for the jedi." Looking on TFN I like this dropped line of "You seem more worried about the Jedi than you are of me..." to the nemodians. This was cut, but I need to look at this source

Maul Getting Anxious

Jon adds this cutscene: When Obi-Wan's by the final force field in the showdown, before he duels Maul, there was a cool part after Maul activates his saber. He spins and moves to the right, spinning his saber in the process, right before the force field deactivates. In the movie, you can see him still moving to the right, and his light saber now on his right, instead of infront and some what to the left. In the ep 1 game for the PC, I think it's the load game thing. Hover the mouse over it, and you can see the entire scene, uncut.

This is the dialogue I think you are referring to:

Darth Maul and Obi-Wan Chat

Another item that was in the Insider's Guide is very cool. In one of the drafts of TPM, Lucas added some dialogue between Obi-Wan and Maul after Qui-Gon is killed:


Obi-Wan: "Your style of fighting is old, but I understand it now..."
Maul: "You learn fast."
Obi-Wan: "You don't bother to learn."
Maul: "I don't have to."
Obi-Wan then cuts Maul in half and says: "Learn not, live not, my master always says."

This is cool about the power of the sith...

Although never filmed, one of the coolest scenes cut from the revised draft is when Sidious is contacted for the first time and Daultay Dofine argues with him. Sidious begins Force-choking Dofine and picks him up off the ground and says,"You fool, my reach is far greater than the Jedi. Only a Sith can wield the force over such a great distance."

This is from TFN too about obi-wan and maul in the desert:

Also, it was noticed in the illustrated screenplay, there are storyboard drawings of Darth Maul fighting Obi-Wan in the desert, so maybe originaly both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were supposed to fight him? or Lucas wasn't sure who would fight who? Interesting, and we just thought that was a promotional picture in Vanity Fair. We'll keep working on that one. Here's a brief update as well, courtesy of Michael:

In the first few drafts of the screenplay it was OBI-WAN who went into the Tatooine marketplace, not QUI-GON, as he hadn't been introduced into the story yet (as he first appeared on Coruscant). So in that sith encounter in the desert it was OBI-WAN who fought Maul. But that still does not explain why they made storyboards. They may have just made rough ones in very early production for Lucas so he could see what the sequence would look like.

Further this felt odd in the theatrical version and makes sense now...I don't like the eopies anyway (cut)

Borrowing the Eopies

Remember when Qui-Gon leaves to return and pick up Anakin, He's riding on a horse like animal and holding the reigns of a second one (for Anakin to ride back on, I thought). Yet Qui-Gon and Anakin are shown walking back to the Queen's ship when they are attracted by Maul. So, what happened to the horse like animals? Where they given to Shimi? Stolen? Where they injured and left behind? Interesting note, but there is no mention of them in the novel. Good observation, and the again the novelization comes into play: It shows that Qui-Gon has borrowed the Eeopies and is returning them. That's why they walk back. They run back to the ship because after Anakin leaves his mother, a Sith probe droid spots them and Qui-Gon slashes it with his saber. They then rush back to the ship, which is why they are running.

Further, I got this there as well about there possibly being more than 2...and it would make a good scroll...oh and here's news I might do more than 3/6 movies. I like the idea of trilogies. I might do 3 trilogies (as originally intended) that are shorter, tighter and can add more into scroll for each. A trinity of trinities. Perfection will be attained. Oh and that background on the rules of sith...

History of the Sith

The book also gives a history of the Siths. And that the Siths wiped each other out and only one survived - Darth Bane. He developed the idea of only two Siths at a time to prevent internal problems. Lucas has said: "One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith Lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the Dark Side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, become the master, and so on. But there could never be more than two of them, because if there were, they woud try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which, if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies." So does this mean there CAN be more Sith than two? Cool.


More Maul from TFN...

Many astute readers have pointed out many of Darth Maul's lines missing. While watching the Stars Wars Video Duel of the Fates it was noticed that these lines did not appear in the film. For example, Darth Maul says "Fear is my ally. Fear attracts the fearful." While not appearing in the script itself, it is unclear if this could have appeared in the movie. Possibly it was created for the Tone Poem and DOTF Video as a stand-alone, or it may have simply been cut.

And this has revealed on of my titles for the films..."Duel of the Fates", "Shroud of the Dark Side" was planned ever since yoda says that line at the end of ATOC, although I saw Trooperman had thought of using that title as well, I think it would work better with an expanded series of films. Not sure yet. "Fall of the Republic" is another giving homage to fanfic from 1983. We'll see.

As far as Qui-gon he will get some more play, I can easily add ethereal lines back in but doing a ghost of him, get more involved. I have Vegas, Acid, and Sound Forge, but I do not have something like After Effects. I have been kicking around a lofty idea of maul, the emperor, etc. in hell. Mustafah is based off of Lucas' original idea of having the emperor's lair b
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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If you have photoshop skills, I have some ideas I'd like to bounce of you to frame by frame as far a gungans (they will be far reduced, especially jar-jar). I'd like to alter the look of the eyes. I won't full reveal this yet.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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I shared this elsewhere, but thought this might be as good as place as any to do it again...

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Greencapt, that is awesome...wow that looks so, bad ass. Are you interested in doing some things as far a reedits? What do you about some of the stuff discussed above. God, that gives me chills. I love that pic. I could use a pic like that for a dvd menu or disc art. Wow. My mind is racing.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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Has anyone ripped scenes from the videogames, episode I from the PC has that aforementioned Maul scene and the Ep. II has a wealth of movie footage and mention of deleted scenes. Or even the cut scenes from KOTOR or KOTOR II?

I still need final scripts. I keep finding drafts that are different from the theatrical version.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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In "Star Wars Visionaries" there is a short story called "Old Wounds," featuring a half-cyborg, ressurected Darth Maul having a final confrontation with Obi-Wan at the Lars Homestead. As the they duel, Maul reveals he has been hutning Obi-Wan for years, just missing him on Kamino, Geonosis, Mustafar, etc. While this obviously wouldn't be a cut-and-paste as Grevious would have a different history, the general idea of conveying what he had been up to the last 13 years is what we're going for.

You mentioned Eopies; when Qui-Gon returns ot the ship with the parts, the frames need to be reversed. You can tell by Obi-Wan's padawan braid being on the wrong side. Lucas admits this in the DVD commentary, thinking he would have to reverse the shot for some reason, but he ended up not having to. What originally was a smart creative decision is now a continuity error due to the lack of frame reversal, so that needs to be corrected. That the first thing I thought of when you said Eopies.

Your mention of NINE films has me very interested. The more scrolls the more you can alter the story, so elaborate a bit on this if you can. ESB and RotJ are good for breaking up into more films, and in fact it might solve some plot holes. As for titles, "Duel of the Fates" isn't a proper film title, IMO. And I've been saying time and time again on these boards that "Dark Force Rising" (taken from the Zahn novel) would be a perfect title for Episode 2. But now, however, I'm thinking "Dark Force Ascendent" would be better; sounds more epic. Just something to consider.

The tone poems go as follows:

Qui-Gon
It will be a hard life.
One without reward, without remorse, without regret.
A path will be placed before you, the choice is your's alone.
Do what you think you cannot do.
It will be a hard life, but you will find out who you are.

Maul
Fear.
Fear attracts the fearful.
The strong. The weak. The innocent. The corrupt.
Fear. Fear is my ally.

There are also tone poems for Anakin, Amidala, and Shmi; all of these can be found on the DVD.

And lenghty is not a problem. This is the kind of in-depth discussion these forums are all about. Although I don't have Photoshop, I do use Photosuite, a similar program. I'm not sure if that could be of any help though.
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BTW, Trooperman do you have final scripts for TPM, AOTC or ROTS?

No- you see, what people call the final script often has many differences due to cut scenes and alternate takes used at the last minute. In writing alternate dialogue for Anakin, I'm referring to the script for Episode II, but I'm not actually writing out complete scripts for my edits.

One question, out of curiosity: It is known that the press screenings of Episode I: TPM were different from the theatrical in one way- when Maul fell down the shaft at the end, he fell in one piece, he didn't split in half. Also, there are two versions of the theatrical release- in the rarer one (which didn't make it to video), Maul doesn't break apart until the very end of his fall. This could be cropped.

My question is- back then, did anyone download this off the Internet back then? Is it possible that someone may have a copy of this clip? If so, then Maul=Grievous would work much, much better in Episode III.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
Greencapt, that is awesome...wow that looks so, bad ass. Are you interested in doing some things as far a reedits? What do you about some of the stuff discussed above. God, that gives me chills. I love that pic. I could use a pic like that for a dvd menu or disc art. Wow. My mind is racing.


Sure yeah! I'd love to help out in any way I can. Just let me know.

BTW- I know the Maul side of that pic is blocky but it was a quicky job (ie a few minutes). It could look much, much better before you put it on a menu.
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Trooperman, I actually think it makes Maul=Grevious works BETTER since he was cut in half. He has to be totally rebuilt, making for a radical new body design. They're still trying to perfect cyborgs at this point in Star Wars history.
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That still doesn't explain why his heart is just sort of floating there with no organs attatched.

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Anyone spot the fake CG model of Maul cut up in two when he falls into the chasm.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Unless your counting the clone wars cartoon none of that is explained including his coughing which 95% of those that saw the movie, were like, "what the hell is this crap!" To me it fills in the plot hole better than exists now. The plot holes in the entire saga are so innumerous that it actually, ironically works to the favor of GL by fandom coming up with wild theories to explain all of it. I had thought of doing a clone wars edit as well actually, though this would be last on my list. I am thinking of using some sound bites from it though early on. BTW, Commander Courage...sadly, and wonderfully, I had never seen those tome poems on theat 2nd page of the DVD, very pleasant suprise and a trove of good soundbites for my edit...THANK YOU! Including Maul Dialogue (clearer than whats in the duel of the fates video) I wish I could get someone to catalog movies such as closer with natalie potman or pulp fiction with samuel jackson and see if any audio could link up to the movies. There is a number of aforementioned holes that other drafts of the script really fill in, but is lost on the final movie. I could drive myself crazy doing all of this. I am too obsessive about this.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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The other thing I am frustrated about in my edits is lucas already replaced that crappy puppet yoda from episode I with CG warming up for EP. III like 2 or 3 years ago. I am not sure if this will be in a PT boxset at Christmas or this will be pushed back to the HD releases in 2007. I've heard there is new masters to be released with the next additions of the film though I am not sure how much better they can be being digital and EP. II and III shot in HD (on II they used 24p and EP.III some new sony technology). I used an upscaling DVD player to 1080i with a reference HDMI cord last night and the film look as good as my 942 dish receiver with HD channels. I'm anxious to see how much better the picture can be (before it turns...gasp...3D in 2007, one year at a time releasing each episode, milking for more and more).
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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Welcome back OBI-wonton..................nice to see you round the neighborhood again. I myself have had a daughter and keep quite busy by her. Glad to see you out and about!!!

Peace!!!
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Thanks Jatrell I know what its like. But it feels so good to be back.

I still got that question about finalized scripts...any links?
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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"it actually, ironically works to the favor of GL by fandom coming up with wild theories to explain all of it."

I might add that recently, Lucas has developed a tendency to end any desciptions of film concepts with "or is it?", or something to that effect. He's basically undermining anyone's ability to use his quotes as hard facts - not surprising considering how many of his earlier quotes can easily be made to contradict themselves.

Looks like he's just throwing everything up in the air at this point - this is not surprising, considering how little regard he had for continuity between the trilogies.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>