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No matter who you vote for, just remember, W thinks you're going to burn in hell.
"90% of the statistics used in quotes are made up."
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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca
No matter who you vote for, just remember, W thinks you're going to burn in hell.


and he said this where???

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Kingsama/samasig.jpg
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Well, he is a born again christian and claims God choose him to be president. So much for Church and State.

No, he never actually said it. Al Gore never said he invented the internet, but that doesn't stop Republicans from making asses of themselves. I figured I'd join in.
"90% of the statistics used in quotes are made up."
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Can any body here quote where in the constitution "separation of Church and State" comes from?

And God puts all world leaders in place. Not just Bush. I don't remember the exact scripture however.

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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca
Well, he is a born again christian and claims God choose him to be president. So much for Church and State.

No, he never actually said it. Al Gore never said he invented the internet, but that doesn't stop Republicans from making asses of themselves. I figured I'd join in.


Al Gore did say he invented the internet. They had a video of him saying it. Its like every democrate has there own catch phrase.

Clinton - I did not have sexual relations with that women

Gore - I invented the internet

Kerry - I voted for it before I voted against it
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Over and over again goes back the old argument about "Saddam, the Hitler Reloaded" and "Evil Iraqi Empire"... which is the result of media campaign heavily promoted by the current US gov. There are no doubts that Saddie was a naughty boy and God save us all from such people. He even has moustache like Hitler and Stalin! The totalitarian Iraq was an aggressive state and it did posess threat to its neighbours. True. But the difference between 2003 Iraq and 1939 III Reich is war potential.

Iraqi nuclear programme was practically snuffed with a swift'n'spectacular attack of the IAF pilots, who dropped their iron bombs with almost laser precision (kudos to them, all because their grandpas trained on RWD-8 ) into Saddie's nuke reactor. Some time later Uncle Sam, who formerly was selling weapons to naughty Iraqis (including chemical/biological ones), made a successful counterattack, arm in arm with the Coalition forces, against Iraqi forces which invaded Kuwait. So after 1991 Iraq was licking its wounds after loosing most of its potential. The 2003 Iraq was far less dangerous to its neighbours than was III Reich in 1939 to the states bordering with it. The Weapons of Mass Destruction (gosh, I just love the way Americans forge new three-letter acronyms: WMD, MAD, DVD, HBO, WTF? ), even assuming they were there at that time, could not reach US shores in any way - they had no ICBMs, SSBN, strategic bombers etc. Dirty bomb? Suitcase nuke? Anyone can use it - Libyan extremist, ex-Soviet mad general, you-name-it. So the Iraq was only dangerous for the oil reserves found in Middle East - a drastic increase in price could wreak US economy. And the war was to prevent it. So the war was indeed defending America - defending America's business. So let's name things they really are and stop using those "cool names" like Operation Iraqi Freedom etc. They're here just to fool the masses.

Yet the US gov. seems to not notice far greater threats. Iraqi army could be easily offed by conventional forces of its neighbours. As far as tanks are involved we call the thing "local conflict". It doesn't mean it's not important - people are dying there! - but it has only limited effect on the global stability (unless it's about... oil ). The greater effect could have the Indian-Pakistani feud - they DO have WMDs, albeit of tactical range, but we don't want to see them lobbed, right? Even greater threat to the world posess the North Korea. Let's just imagine what happens if Chinese dragon wakes up for war, provoked by Korean nukes and destabilization of the region ... we could all be FUBAR... USians, you'd better start to assemble those Raptors or you be outnumbered 3:1... and even AIM-9X can't hit 3 aircraft at once.

About Bush Jr himself... he's just a puppet in the hands of his staff. Just listen to him, he doesn't really have anything to say, except for repeating the lines they give him. Maybe that's why he makes so many bloopers? Jimbo may laugh from Clinton, but apart from the "cigar case" were there books listing democratic president's mistakes during the official speeches? We, Poles, used to laugh from our ex-president, who was a simple worker, because he sometimes sounded silly with his enigmatic responses. But when we compare him with Bush Jr, we see that Lech Walesa was merely an "eccentric" in his speech, while Dubya is "plain old-fashioned stupid". And so damn stubborn. I'll bet he repeats to himself a mantra "all those who oppose me are heathens and enemies of the state, as I'm the one God has chosen".

Choosing between Kerry and Bush Jr is like choosing between diarrhea and cancer. No-one likes to have the first, but the latter is far worse.

Master Sifo-Dyas, Warbler - I'm glad you still remember me, guys
*receives the military parade with his forum buddies at his side*


EDIT: jimbo, even after reading your list I still retain my sympathy for Clinton, because I could use a good blowjob, too
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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Originally said by: Al Gore, CNN’s “Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer,” 3/9/99
"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."


Darth Chaltab:
Nope. The exact quote from the Constitution is:
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
In my non-judicial opinion, that says that the President cannot pull a "Henry the 8th", creating a state religion with himself as its head.
(That is what the original settlers of the America left England for...religious freedom)
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Can any body here quote where in the constitution "separation of Church and State" comes from?

And God puts all world leaders in place. Not just Bush. I don't remember the exact scripture however.


So God put Saddam in place? Think things through next time.

America is not theocracy. God doesn't elect our leaders and if you think he does, don't vote.
"90% of the statistics used in quotes are made up."
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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Can any body here quote where in the constitution "separation of Church and State" comes from?

And God puts all world leaders in place. Not just Bush. I don't remember the exact scripture however.


So God put Saddam in place? Think things through next time.

America is not theocracy. God doesn't elect our leaders and if you think he does, don't vote.


Got eh agree with you there. As much as I support Bush God isn't electing him the people are.
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac


Interesting analogy considering that America actually sat on the side lines and watched the rest of the world fight a war in Europe to contain the Nazi axis until it became their problem too on December 7, 1941.

Not pointing fingers, I'm just saying.

EDIT: By the way I'm calling Godwin's Law on this.


good point. But I am not sure that I agree with the USA waiting so long enter WWII. Maybe I shouldn't haved used the USA and Hitler in my analogy. Lets just say nation 'x' hasn't attacked any nation, nor plans to. But nation 'x' is gathering all its citizens who are of religon 'r' into concentration camps(with the clear intention of killing them). Lets say that there are millions citizens in nation 'x' that are of religon 'r'. Now lets say there is another nation, nation 'y'. Nation 'y' is much more powerful than nation 'x' and can easily beat nation 'x' in a war. Nation 'y' knows what is going on in nation 'x'. Is it right for nation 'y' to stand by and do nothing while nation 'x' kills millons of people when it has the power to stop it? But I as I said before, if nation 'y' says it has the right to judge nation 'x' what's to stop nations 'z', 'v', or 'w' from judging nation 'y'? I just don't know. I'm not trying to justify that Iraq war I'm just saying I'm not sure weither it was right or not.


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awful pics jimbo. You know, the anti abortion arguement would more convincing if you didn't involve religon or god in it. By doing so you eliminate in chance of convincing non believers that you are right.
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Originally posted by: Warbler
awful pics jimbo. You know, the anti abortion arguement would more convincing if you didn't involve religon or god in it. By doing so you eliminate in chance of convincing non believers that you are right.


I agree they are awful. I was barley able to look at them while posting them. It makes me sick that a human being can justify such a horrible thing. John Kerry supports a womens right to choose. I say no women or any human being should have the right to choose whether an innocent child lives or dies. I don't really see abortion as a religious arguement. Just the fact that innocent human life is precious. Bush has done everything in his power to try to stop this sick crime against humanity. Bush respects human life. Kerry does not. Which is why Kerry is unfit for command. If you put your vote for John Kerry the blood of those children is on your hands.
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You know, when a teenage girl is raped and impregnated, I think she should have that choice. I think every woman should have that choice, honestly. Who am I to tell a female what she can or can not do to herself?

What I don't like about this debate is that it is so easy to get on some fake moral highground and dismiss the girl as a slut or a whore. But where are all the protestors after she doesn't have the abortion? They don't give 2 fucks about that baby after it's born. It's easy to say 'Human life is precious' when you don't have to deal with it.

We all know abortions are disturbing to look at, but so are countless other medical precedures. No one likes abortion, but illegalizing them won't make them go away.
"90% of the statistics used in quotes are made up."
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Originally posted by: jimbo
Bush respects human life.


That is the most erroneous statement I have ever read on the internet.

Or are you referring only to the life of White American Christian Humans?
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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I fear this thread has deteriorated, as predicted. Somehow Im not suprised by how simple a picture you paint Jimbo.

Getting into a discussion of what is morally correct or incorrect is really just an exercise in how much you want to type. Morality is definitively subjective.
It makes me happy to see people as opinionated as they are when it comes to this election. More sad than the choice we have to make in November is that so few people participate in our grand Democracy. I certainly hope that as polarized as people seem, we get more of a turn out at the polls.

Personally I dont think either of these candidates is going to be great for America. I think they are both dishonest and manipulative. And they both have far too much vested interest in Big Business.

One thing I feel is worthy of direct response is this: somebody listed a bunch of stuff that Kerry has waffled on, and in that list was his opinion about marriage and his opposition to a constitutional amendment. Man, if you call this waffling, you are missing something. This is preservation of a great document. Amending the constitution with such obvious bigotry goes against all that it stands for.
And here is a tired argument I cant seem to put down: for all you fundamentalists who think that homosexuality is so horrible - thats passing judgement. And making laws repressing that, something which is not harming you (or anyone else for that matter) is, frankly, inhumane.
"You don't own space, so stop actin' like you do."
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
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Originally posted by: jimbo
Bush respects human life.


That is the most erroneous statement I have ever read on the internet.

Or are you referring only to the life of White American Christian Humans?


Dude, Reg. Things like that are completely uncalled for. How can you hate a man so much to say something like that when you've likely never met him personally. I mean, for crying out loud, we are fighting a war in which millions of Muslims are beeing/ have been liberated, and many "white American Christians" have died.

What is it with your hostility to caucasians, Americans, and the saved?

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Dude, Reg. Things like that are completely uncalled for. How can you hate a man so much to say something like that when you've likely never met him personally. I mean, for crying out loud, we are fighting a war in which millions of Muslims are beeing/ have been liberated, and many "white American Christians" have died.

What is it with your hostility to caucasians, Americans, and the saved?


As usual we're off topic, uless you REALLY believe that there is no seperation between Church and State and that 'God puts world leaders in place'. IF there were a 'God' or all-powerful, all-knowing supernatural force at once infinite and singular then He does not put anyone in place on Earth that happens after their death, to everyone.

I have no hostility to Caucasians, I am one. I just feel that non Caucasians have the right to continue living their lives also. Sorry if that doesn't jive with 'it is written'.

I LOVE Americans I live in Australia which is rapidly becoming the 51st State. You guys are my brothers.

And as far as 'the saved' it is my firm belief that people can believe in whatever fairytales make them happy. Until their fairytales start getting enforced as law or foreign policy and begin to make other people of differing ideologies unhappy or dead.

Liberated Iraqis. Liberated from their limbs, lives and loved ones. Did they put their faith in the wrong imaginary friend? Perhaps if they prayed to 'God' he may have told his conduit on Earth not to order carpet bombing of their villages.

And why is my love of human life uncalled for when Jimbo's love of human suffering is acceptable?
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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In any war there will always be random acts of violence and a few men who don't behave. He went into Iraq to save the Iraqi people from Saddam. Saddam gased and tortured people simply for saying things against him or being of a different race or culture. Saddam Hussian was a monster. Its an unfortunite fact that people die in war. But this war accomplished so much good. In January there will be free elections in Iraq. The Iraqi people are free from Saddam. Bush did this people he does respect human life. Both ours and the Iraqis. He has no respect for the life of terrorists. Even if you do oppose the war its still no reason to vote for Kerry since he voted for the war.
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Believe whatever your fictitious President tells you to believe Jimbo.

America is lucky you're too young to vote.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca
You know, when a teenage girl is raped and impregnated, I think she should have that choice. I think every woman should have that choice, honestly. Who am I to tell a female what she can or can not do to herself?

What I don't like about this debate is that it is so easy to get on some fake moral highground and dismiss the girl as a slut or a whore. But where are all the protestors after she doesn't have the abortion? They don't give 2 fucks about that baby after it's born. It's easy to say 'Human life is precious' when you don't have to deal with it.

We all know abortions are disturbing to look at, but so are countless other medical precedures. No one likes abortion, but illegalizing them won't make them go away.


What happens to the child after its born. It lives thats what the flying fuck happens. Even a life in an orphange or on the street is still a life and I am sure they are thankful they were given the right to excist. Something that those aborted babies didn't get. Frankly I could give a flying fuck about what happens to some dirty sluty whore who fucked around and doesn't want to accept the responsibility for that. If the girl is raped kill the guy who raped you don't take it out on some innocent child. Its not his fault his father is an ass. You say what to do with herself. Its not herself. Its not killing a growth, a mass of cells, or a wart its killing a human being. Illlegalzing abortion may not make it go away but it will dispence hard earned justice to all those murderers. There iternity in hell can't begin soon enough as far as I am afraid.
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
Believe whatever your fictitious President tells you to believe Jimbo.

America is lucky you're too young to vote.


Again Kerry voted for the war. Kerry otherized Bush to use military action against Iraq. Kerry said Saddam is a threat that needs to be removed. You know what Kerry is right. My parents can vote and it will definutly be for Bush.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
I don't really see abortion as a religious arguement.


could of fooled me that website you posted a link to, seems to indicate otherwise.

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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca
You know, when a teenage girl is raped and impregnated, I think she should have that choice. I think every woman should have that choice, honestly. Who am I to tell a female what she can or can not do to herself?


the question is, is she only doing somthing to herself?

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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca

What I don't like about this debate is that it is so easy to get on some fake moral highground and dismiss the girl as a slut or a whore.


I agree with you this happens too often.


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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca
But where are all the protestors after she doesn't have the abortion? They don't give 2 fucks about that baby after it's born. It's easy to say 'Human life is precious' when you don't have to deal with it.


there is always adoption. If a woman kills a her newborn child just because she doesn't have enough money raise it or doesn't feel that this the right time in her life to be raising a child, this is called murder. Why? Because a newborn is clearly a human being entitled to the same right to life that you or I would have. The real question that is very difficult to answer is, what is the fetus? Is it human life? Is it entitled to the same rights a newborn would have? If it is, then the reason given for having an abortion because of lack of money or she does not want to raise a child right now are invalid. Just as they would be if you used then in the defending of the killing of a newborn. I am not saying that the fetus is human life and is entiled to the same right to life that we have. I just saying that, that is the question needs to be answered. What is the fetus?

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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca

We all know abortions are disturbing to look at, but so are countless other medical precedures.


abortion is not like other medical precedures. In most other medical precedures , it is not in question as to wheither or not a human is being killed. I'm not saying a human is being in during an abortion, but it is in question. Another question I have. Even if a fetus is not considered human, are their nevous systems developed enough to feel pain ? How much pain would the fetus feel during the abortion? It is right to inflict pain apon the fetus even if it is not human. We wouldn't allow someone to torture a dog or cat. Should we allow some one to inflict pain apon the fetus?

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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca
No one likes abortion, but illegalizing them won't make them go away.


probably true. If abortions are banned women would have back door abortions or go to a country where they are legal. Which is what happen is the USA before abortion was legal.


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Originally posted by: Warbler
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Originally posted by: jimbo
I don't really see abortion as a religious arguement.


could of fooled me that website you posted a link to, seems to indicate otherwise.

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Originally posted by: Zombie Chewbacca
No one likes abortion, but illegalizing them won't make them go away.


probably true. If abortions are banned women with have back door abortions or go to a country where they are legal. Which is what happen is the USA before abortion was legal.


Thing is I didn't read the text next to the pictures. I barly looked at them. They just disturb me to hell. They send chills down my spine. Also if abortionists decide to leave the country if abortion is banned I say good fucking ridence. Our country doesn't need slutly whores like them. If they accidently kill themselves trying to get an illegal abortion I say good fucking ridence. A human is a human from conception. If you take a human life you deserve to loose yours.