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It's official... — Page 12

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Originally posted by: motti_soL
the USA would not dare go into North Korea, coz now they have nukes, haha... not so funny when the playing field is level, is it?


The current administration can be sure of North Korea's nuclear capabilities as it was one of Rumsfeld's companies that was responsible for selling light water nuclear reactors to North Korea.

It's a win win situation. He makes money from the sale of nukes to a corrupt dictator and creates enough fear to keep the public in line while the situation escalates to the point where Cheney can soon make money from his companies defence contracts. Plus Bush gets to look like a born again morals crusader with perpetual villains to create and then fight.

"Oceania was at war with Eurasia: Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia."

Interesting times indeed.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Originally posted by: motti_soL
several things, since i waasnt here since yesterday morning.

the israel situation: the US is holding a hand over Israel because if they didnt, there wouldnt be any Israel anymore. there is a saying in the Middle East: if all moslem/arab countries spat at once towards Israel, Israel would drown...

the problem is that the Bush Admin does not want to learn from past mistakes. what is going on at this moment is called Imperialism. it was done before in the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th century and nobody wants to return to that and nobody thought it was the best thing.

the USA would not dare go into North Korea, coz now they have nukes, haha... not so funny when the playing field is level, is it?

Socialism is not strongly equated with Communism. not at all! read some more books...

most countries in europe have Socialist parties that are very strong.

Nazism, even though it stands for National Socialismus has nothing to do with Socialism, but it has something to do with Tyranny, Dictatorship and Fascism.

what Stalin did in the USSR has nothing to do with Communism but everything to do with Despotism.

when you break it down and look at it, then Communism is the best for of government there can be, it is excellent. the problem is practice, you cannot put it into practice and hope for a good result. Communism is only good on paper.

i cant remember who said this, but it stuck in my mind. i think it was a brit or something:

"Terrorism is war of the powerless. War is terror of the powerful."

thats all for this time around. cant remember anything at this moment. something will come up though.


Comunist fuck
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Originally posted by: Warbler
ok I'm done with thread, continue your hate speeches without me.
I'm with Warbler. When this thread started, I was hoping for at least a semi-intelligent discussion of politics. It has since degraded into a religious/political shouting match, where we see who can scream the loudest and most offensive obscenities.

I will not participate in such a match. It is not in my nature.
Now, if you will excuse me, NFL Gamecenter indicates that the Packers are driving down the field to break this 7-7 tie against division leading Detroit.
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I don't know, maybe... perhaps... dead thread? Uh, you know the rest? But that's just me...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I'm curious...what are atheists denying? I mean...if there ISN'T a God, then Who or What are they denying? How can you claim to believe something doesn't exist if it already doesn't exist? I choose to not believe that the OT exists on licensed dvds...yet surprisingly they already don't. See my point?

I would encourage (Reg was it?) to actively seek out people who truly know the Bible...and I'm afraid I can't think of even one Catholic who can answer any of your past/present questions. Obviously since you are a member of these forums you like fantasy/science fiction...tell me, do you like C.S. Lewis or JRR Tolkien at all? Both men where Christians, and i know Lewis recorded his journey from being a rather violent and active athest and agnostic to becoming a Christian. Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. Check it out.

Bringing this topic back to the legally elected President Bush...you know, radical Islam wouldn't exist without being like Reg and their mirror counterparts. Both the "extreme fundamentalist" and the "totally agnostic" are equally dangerous. You can't be either one of the extremes.

As for Kerry...nope, not a valid candidate. Section 3, Article 3 of the Constitution...treason is defined as "giving aid and comfort to the enemy"...well, Kerry did exactly this when protesting the Vietnam war WHILE STILL UNDER OATH. He betrayed his oath and his country, and it turns out it wasn't even for a noble cause. Based on the Constitution, I believe it's illegal and unconstitutional to elect John Kerry.

That said, I hope you all have pleasant day/night.
Which is the more foolish, the fool (the OT) or the fool who follows (the PT)?

"Stay back, or Mr...Fett gets it!"
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Comunist fuck


lol nice spelling jimbo...
do you even know what "communist" means?

oh Jay...
BAN!!!!
personal attack!!!
lol
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Originally posted by: Count Dushku
I'm curious...what are atheists denying? I mean...if there ISN'T a God, then Who or What are they denying? How can you claim to believe something doesn't exist if it already doesn't exist? I choose to not believe that the OT exists on licensed dvds...yet surprisingly they already don't. See my point?

Obviously since you are a member of these forums you like fantasy/science fiction...tell me, do you like C.S. Lewis or JRR Tolkien at all? Both men where Christians, and i know Lewis recorded his journey from being a rather violent and active athest and agnostic to becoming a Christian. Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. Check it out.

you know, radical Islam wouldn't exist without being like Reg and their mirror counterparts. Both the "extreme fundamentalist" and the "totally agnostic" are equally dangerous. You can't be either one of the extremes.


What a load of piffle.

But since you're curious.

The history of atheism and agnosticism is not the one soaked in blood my friend that history is maintained by the Church the blood was spilled in the name of faith and not rational inquiry.

There's nothing dangerous about agnosticism it's not an extreme of anything, it's a lack of belief in things that have no proof. If God, why not the Toothfairy the same proof exists in each case. If God why not Aliens or Ghosts, or Goblins and Witches. Because it's all meaningless bullshit that has no basis in facts and no bearing on the world and life. I mean, if there isn't a toothfairy then who or what are you denying? I mean, if there aren't witches then who or what are you denying?

Wondering whether there is a God is like wondering what triangles smell like or what colour thursdays are or whether there is a meaning to life. They seem like proper English sentences but they are absurd and without merit lacking any and all consideration.

Choosing not to believe in something for which there exists no evidence whatsoever is not a choice at all it's the only option. The surprising thing is that people will believe any guff you feed them if it comes from a book that is covered with enough dust. It's surprising that given the massive weight of evidence against religion and the zero proof for that there still exists any free-thinking fully-functioning humans who can swallow such lies, sophistry and illusion.

True I do like fantasy but I don't believe that somewhere out there The Jedi exist because like religion and God the films were fashioned by men.

If you bothered to read the previous page you'd find that I actually addressed your points even before you made them.

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I would encourage (Reg was it?) to actively seek out people who truly know the Bible...and I'm afraid I can't think of even one Catholic who can answer any of your past/present questions.


I have and you're right no-one knows it because there is nothing to know. So we agree.

Oh and Bush is an Imperialist Theocrat who must be stopped, the man believes in the 'End Of Days' for pity's sake. He believes in Armageddon and he may well be the one to bring it about. How can anyone take such a man seriously?
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
What a load of piffle.

But since you're curious.

The history of atheism and agnosticism is not the one soaked in blood my friend that history is maintained by the Church the blood was spilled in the name of faith and not rational inquiry.


Marxism is a athiestic/agnostic belief system and it has shed mucho blood.

People seem to attack religion only for being the medium at which the socially powerful manipulate the uninformed masses to violence, when in fact religion is only one of many different ideas that have been used to manipulate the masses into violence.

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There's nothing dangerous about agnosticism it's not an extreme of anything, it's a lack of belief in things that have no proof. If God, why not the Toothfairy the same proof exists in each case. If God why not Aliens or Ghosts, or Goblins and Witches. Because it's all meaningless bullshit that has no basis in facts and no bearing on the world and life. I mean, if there isn't a toothfairy then who or what are you denying? I mean, if there aren't witches then who or what are you denying?



ag·nos·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nstk)
n.

One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

taken from dictionary.com, agnostics dont deny the existance of G-d, only are skeptical or simply say "i dont know". The lack of a belief in G-d is Atheism. (A) meaning no/anti/ , and (theism) belief in G-d, (ruffly speaking of course)


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Choosing not to believe in something for which there exists no evidence whatsoever is not a choice at all it's the only option. The surprising thing is that people will believe any guff you feed them if it comes from a book that is covered with enough dust. It's surprising that given the massive weight of evidence against religion and the zero proof for that there still exists any free-thinking fully-functioning humans who can swallow such lies, sophistry and illusion.


Firstly i find it intersting that you automatically assume that us "theist" are all uneducated, moronic, mind slobs. When in fact i know, and am, many people that have studied the opposing views. Have you done the same? Have you read any of the numerous writing past or present that bring up examples of evidence? or do you disregard them based upon pre-suppositions?

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The Herculean myth resembles Jesus in many areas. Hercules was born as a human from the union of God (Zeus) and the mortal and chaste Alcmene, his mother. Similar to Herod who wanted to kill Jesus, Hera wanted to kill Hercules. Like Jesus, Hercules traveled the Earth as a mortal helping mankind and performing miraculous deeds. Like Jesus who wnt to Hell and then died and rose to heaven, Hercules went to Hades/The Underworld then died, rose to Mount Olympus and became a god. Hercules gives example of perhaps the most popular hero in Ancient Greece and Rome. They believed that he actually lived, told stories about him, worshiped him, and dedicated temples to him. People dismiss Hercules and other Greek gods as myth and legend because people no longer believe in the Greek and Roman fable stories. When a civilisation dies, so to do their gods. Christianity and its church authorities, on the other hand, still hold a powerful influence (vice grip) on governments, institutions, and colleges.

Many of the legends of Hercules from 1500BCE were fables that had been passed down from generations until they were written in more polished form about 500-400 BCE. Some six centuries later these stories show up again, but ascribed to a newcomer, Jesus of Nazareth. Known as the Great Teacher, the Christians began to call him first the Messiah, and then later the Son of God, clearly trying to capitalize on the love the people had for Hercules, the original Son of God.



um the OT refers to the Messiah and the Son of G-d, which predates Greek myth. Heck, the Profit Isiah refers to the Comming Messiah as Immanuel, aka G-d with us, an idea that is evident in the OT far before Isiah Also that aside, there are many other tails that precede the Hercule of G-d having offspring.

Just some inaccuracies...
There was no "union" of G-d the father and Mary.
Jesus didnt go to Hell, he died on earth and then rose again.
But you are right there are various simulaties between the Story of Christ and a landry list of other religious characters/figures. But that in and of itself does not disprove or prove anything. You also seem to be forgeting Zorastrianism and the primary effects that it allegidly would have had on Christianity. You should read up on that, it is a much better idea than this greek stuff, same ancient roots and such...

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If you bothered to read a different book you would discover that yes Jesus lived, but his name was Yoshua and yes he was a good public speaker but an ordinary man who was mythologised by a violent cult.


Again not all christians/ or other theists for that matter are drooling morons... I am well aware of Jesus' real name...

The christian church was pasifistic for its first three centuries. (until it was adopted by constatine as the official religion of the Roman empire. This is also where many other non christian traditions and beliefs creep in but that is another story for another thread.) You also seem to be attributing a long generating and developmental period to Christianity, where as this period in Christianity (a jewish cult) was very short, and you have its leaders (the apostles) some of which that are steeped in Jewish religious thought and spiritual docterine, voliteering to die for the cause. Now i agree that people dieing for a cause doesnt prove that the cause is right, or true, but it does proove that they believe in its authenticity of the idea. If i am understanding you correctly you are stating that the Christian church founders understood the connection and still went out and died.

Also i would like to bring up that the Jews were/are an extremely tight nit culture, and the probability of greek/roman mythology effecting there belief system is highly unlikely.

Oh by the by Goodwins law was invoked pages before i brought up hitler. I think Jimbo brought it up circa page 3 or 4...****


In a switching of gears, RM where are you from? I am sure that you arent as hostile as you come across in your posts. I am known to get ampoed up during discussions, especially internet ones where there are only words and no faces...




On a completely different note: Motti

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several things, since i waasnt here since yesterday morning.

the israel situation: the US is holding a hand over Israel because if they didnt, there wouldnt be any Israel anymore. there is a saying in the Middle East: if all moslem/arab countries spat at once towards Israel, Israel would drown...


Isreals military power is more than enough to defend itself from the rest of the middle east. Do some research.

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the problem is that the Bush Admin does not want to learn from past mistakes. what is going on at this moment is called Imperialism. it was done before in the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th century and nobody wants to return to that and nobody thought it was the best thing.


Um there are elections being held in afganistan, and in the planning stage in Irag. In imperialism gov. done allow those things, you set up the Governing
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errr...
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Isreals military power is more than enough to defend itself from the rest of the middle east. Do some research.


if all the arab/moslem countries of the world united (wishful thinking, i know), the they would crush Israel, they can defend, yes against two three even four countries, but if they all started to really deliver hard blows to Israel, it would simply cease to exist.

actually, NK would send nukes on Japan first, they said so themselves. and one nuke that gets through is enough... thats the problem.

Socialism

Communism

please read everything there is on that page and see the difference... very different!

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Um there are elections being held in afganistan, and in the planning stage in Irag. In imperialism gov. done allow those things, you set up the Governing body.


and the government that is being set up by the Bush admin in Iraq is elected? errr... they are puppets being put into office because the USA knows that they will do its bidding... for some time.

Despotism tends to go well with dictatorship, maybe i just didnt make myself clear, sorry if that was the case...

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Marxism is a athiestic/agnostic belief system and it has shed mucho blood.

People seem to attack religion only for being the medium at which the socially powerful manipulate the uninformed masses to violence, when in fact religion is only one of many different ideas that have been used to manipulate the masses into violence.


oh and religion hasnt shed much blood? errr... Christianity, Islam, Shinto, Aum to name just a few...
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: motti_soL
errr...
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Isreals military power is more than enough to defend itself from the rest of the middle east. Do some research.


if all the arab/moslem countries of the world united (wishful thinking, i know), the they would crush Israel, they can defend, yes against two three even four countries, but if they all started to really deliver hard blows to Israel, it would simply cease to exist.

actually, NK would send nukes on Japan first, they said so themselves. and one nuke that gets through is enough... thats the problem.

Socialism

Communism



please read everything there is on that page and see the difference... very different!

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Um there are elections being held in afganistan, and in the planning stage in Irag. In imperialism gov. done allow those things, you set up the Governing body.


and the government that is being set up by the Bush admin in Iraq is elected? errr... they are puppets being put into office because the USA knows that they will do its bidding... for some time.

Despotism tends to go well with dictatorship, maybe i just didnt make myself clear, sorry if that was the case...

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Marxism is a athiestic/agnostic belief system and it has shed mucho blood.

People seem to attack religion only for being the medium at which the socially powerful manipulate the uninformed masses to violence, when in fact religion is only one of many different ideas that have been used to manipulate the masses into violence.


oh and religion hasnt shed much blood? errr... Christianity, Islam, Shinto, Aum to name just a few...



Point taken, if some how every muslim country in the world united the would crush them, but that wont happen.

Hmm i read only a short while ago, some diatribe from Kim Il about turning SK Seoul specifically into a burning lake of fire... or something along those lines, in connection to the use of his nuclear weapons...


I know socialism and communism are different, i understood your point to contend that they are not connected, which they obviously are...

Elections:

So the citizens of Afganistan and Iraq are all puppets of the Bush administration??? Cause that is what you are saying. Cause the US didnt place men into the positions, they are being voted on by the people. Man bush should when win this election in America as well, with all that mystical power...

and for blood shed... i was admiting that religious movements have shead lots of blood, the point that i was making in turn was that religious based manipulation of the people to blood shed doesnt have the market cornered. There are other systems of belief that have lead to equal manipulation ending in brutal events...

notice the wording of religion only... and relgion is only one of many...
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we're getting somewhere here... we only disagree on the Afghanistan / Iraqi elections. this is good.

what i meant to say is that the people that the citizens of Iraq will be voting for are placed there by the Bush Admin.

i take my prior statement about NK back, for my "intelligence reports" are apparently older than yours. i just know that there was a time, not that long ago where NK's prime target was Japan. sorry about that, then.

we also agree on the religion debacle.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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I think that our "intellegence reports" could both be acurate. When you are a fascist dictator i am sure your target of choice is always up in the air.
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Kingsama you are definitely well versed in the historical origins of your beliefs, which is something I respect a great deal. Knowledge and intelligence don't oten go hand in hand with faith, you may well take exception to that but you must also realise that most people are, to put it kindly, not very smart.

I HAVE studied my opposing views as I mentioned my upbringing already. My profile will tell you where I'm from but I don't see what being an Aussie has to do with this discussion.

I've mentioned before than I waver between Atheism (denial) and Agnoticism (apathy) depending on what I've been drinking and what mood I'm in. I am well aware that a distinction exists between the two and I almost never pay religion, the churches or God any consideration until they start to annoy me somehow. I have some spiritual belief based on what I've experienced but that too I have researched the origins of and found it to be similar to a near death or a K-holing/third-eye type experience.

I know I can never convince someone that the things they believe are bunk, although it would be nice. I know that a great many people turn to religion because the world is too complex and religion softens the hard edges of reality. I know that religion offers a moral compass to those who otherwise get lost in life's great maze. It can be a crutch or a pillar of strength for those people and that's fine, good for them. I would like more people to understand what they believe and question why. To question if they believe that those things that are thoroughly untestable, not just unprovable but completely unfalsifiable because they cannot even be tested, things that have no impact on the world should be the genesis for laws that discriminate and promote ignorant hatred (jimbo) toward others for reasons unknown and nonexistent.

I'm not a hostile person at all I just get argumentative in discussions with people who don't think that morals can come from anywhere except the bible and that there is one true belief and that this true belief states that this kind of person is right and this kind of person is wrong and the wrong person will be punished in death so we are free to legislate against them in life. That kind of idiotic thinking is what disgusts me.

Religion is my pet peeve and as I said before I make sure I don't associate with many of their type (the bible wavers) in my life as they only end up pissing me off with their high and mighty attitudes and life's too short to share a drink with a tongue-clucker. I don't mind what anyone believes as long as they know why they believe it and why they shouldn't NOT believe it and as long as they keep it to themselves and out of government and legislature.

The internet is a different place it's like a really big "right room for an argument". If you're a Monty Python fan you'll get the reference.

Anyway arguing that black is white with people who believe otherwise may be pointless, especially when so many of them just give up.

I have said before I don't know if there is a God or not and I don't care either. It has no impact on my life one way or the other. I have looked back far enough to see that the bad elements were put in later to scare people and keep them in line. If there is a God He has no power on Earth and everyone meets Him. But then I don't really think there is a God and so except when arguing about it on the 'net I don't think about it much.

I think I got to this point in the thread because Bush is a dangerously stupid Theocrat who believes in things I'm sure he has never questioned. I don't doubt that he believes as I know from first hand experience what a powerful thing a drug-addled born again experience can be, but in my case I continued to question it until my sanity returned and Bush likely did not question the root causes of such a vision. It's a common enough occurence but there's nothing divine about it so far as my inquiries and research can ascertain. But then I'm still looking, is Bush? Or is he going to smite the heathens because his vision commands him to do so?

That's what scares me, that this organisation that has been built out of a thousand lies and one possible kernel of truth has so much power in the greatest (not a value judgement just a statement of financial and economic greatness) country on this tiny blue dot.

Ultimately both sides believe the same thing and see the other as evil and that's idiotic. The fact that they will fight to the death to ensure that their bastardised version of the same story will be the winner is sickening.

EDIT: Just saw some transposed letters.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
Kingsama you are definitely well versed in the historical origins of your beliefs, which is something I respect a great deal. Knowledge and intelligence don't oten go hand in hand with faith, you may well take exception to that but you must also realise that most people are, to put it kindly, not very smart.


Unfortunately i have to agree with you here. A good 90% of the people that clame my faith, or any other faith for that matter, have very little knowledge of the faith and its inner workings. Their limited knowledge is based on Cultural Churchdom/Christendom and not the pillars of the faith. But on the flip side you have those that have become so intrentched in CHurchdom tradition that they loose all fresh perspective on the book they hold dear. But this parisght of thoughtlessness attaches itself to people outside of different faiths, people everywhere are sheep. I had the blessing of being raised outside the faith, and of having wonderful teachers that taught me to quesiton.

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I HAVE studied my opposing views as I mentioned my upbringing already. My profile will tell you where I'm from but I don't see what being an Aussie has to do with this discussion.


I respect that you have studied other alternatives to your views, most people dont try there ideas against those who appose them. Oh and as for why i asked your homeland...Simple, if there is a person on the other side of the box, and not just a bunch of words, then it becomes less easy to be the bolegerent idiot i often times become.

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I've mentioned before than I waver between Atheism (denial) and Agnoticism (apathy) depending on what I've been drinking and what mood I'm in. I am well aware that a distinction exists between the two and I almost never pay religion, the churches or God any consideration until they start to annoy me somehow. I have some spiritual belief based on what I've experienced but that too I have researched the origins of and found it to be similar to a near death or a K-holing/third-eye type experience.


You sound a lot like my best friend here...

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I would like more people to understand what they believe and question why. To question if they believe that those things that are thoroughly untestable, not just unprovable but completely unfalsifiable because they cannot even be tested, things that have no impact on the world should be the genesis for laws that discriminate and promote ignorant hatred (jimbo) toward others for reasons unknown and nonexistent.



though i suppose i disagree with you on the amounts of evidence out there, and at this point would rather leave it at that.(It will save you and me both time and effort, i have had my fair share of lengthy internet debates where we take turns referenceing various authers ideas, books, blah blah balh, only to see that once the dust clears you still stand where you did and vice versa.) I agree with you on the need to be informed. I work with at risk youth, and they like many others, have die hard beliefs about a myriad of things. I constantly challenge them to why they belileve what they do, "Give me and example" "what is the evidence?", "why do you believe what you do?" i say constantly, always playing the devils advocate. I, in the end, just want people to think. Hopefully if you can do that it will prevent the hatred...

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I'm not a hostile person at all I just get argumentative in discussions with people who don't think that morals can come from anywhere except the bible and that there is one true belief and that this true belief states that this kind of person is right and this kind of person is wrong and the wrong person will be punished in death so we are free to legislate against them in life. That kind of idiotic thinking is what disgusts me.


In the end the only purely logicical pov is agnostic pov. We really dont know, or cant prove ANYTHING. Descarte, I believe, was kinda coping out a bit with the i think there for i am bit. It was an out for someone struggling with the question of existence. Maybe i am wrong though. To completely dismiss another theory is crap. I may disagree with you but you know what it is still possible that you are right. To speak specifically on morals, for all i know they could be nothing more than a result of social evolution, i dont, but there is know way to prove either theory 100% right or wrong.

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Religion is my pet peeve and as I said before I make sure I don't associate with many of their type (the bible wavers) in my life as they only end up pissing me off with their high and mighty attitudes and life's too short to share a drink with a tongue-clucker. I don't mind what anyone believes as long as they know why they believe it and why they shouldn't NOT believe it and as long as they keep it to themselves and out of government and legislature.



Hey not all of us bible wavers are bad people, i know many people that would be considered fundi's if you look at core theology, but are nothing like the cultural traditions that are readily assotiated with the term "fundi". By the by what in the world is a tongue clucker???

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I think I got to this point in the thread because Bush is a dangerously stupid Theocrat who believes in things I'm sure he has never questioned. I don't doubt that he believes as I know from first hand experience what a powerful thing a drug-addled born again experience can be, but in my case I continued to question it until my sanity returned and Bush likely did not question the root causes of such a vision. It's a common enough occurence but there's nothing divine about it so far as my inquiries and research can ascertain. But then I'm still looking, is Bush? Or is he going to smite the heathens because his vision commands him to do so?



Obviously i support Bush and think he is a geniuine person, further more i dont think that he by and large lets his faith dictate policy. One of the places that a really disagree,though, with him is with homosexual marriage. I personally think that there should be no federally or state sponsered version of marriage, civil unions for all. If i want to married i can do so through my church, synagogue, temple, etc. If i am not religious i can go have my traditional serimony and be married. Let the sacred argue about it, and take the GOV out of it. But this issue isnt as important to me as many others so i still back him.


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I'm with you, Kingsama. Marriage should be a church-run institution. I'm studying family law right now in law school and it seems that all government can do to marriage is screw it up.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.