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Originally posted by: motti_soL
its funny how bush supporters forget the past so quickly. bush sr. with reagan and all the other cronies from the 80's places osama bin ladin in power, they are the ones that places saddam hussein in power and just smiled when this "axis of evil" was operating at its worst.

bush speaks of WMD? where are they? not a single shred of evidence that supports that theory has been presented.

saddam hussein has no links to al-qaeda or afghanistan, this has been proved.

if it is saddam hussein that you wanted to get rid of then get rid of him, dont violate the entire country. you (as in the americans) have put people on the moon, surely you would be able to get one man?

why so sceptical about iran and north korea getting nuclear power? oh youre afraid that they will develop WMD as in nuclear bombs? true, it would be unfortunate if they were to use them. but what does that make the USA, being the only country in over 50 years to ever have used the bomb on a population... twice...
1. The UN came out this week saying that a building, known to hold dual-purpose nuclear refining equipment has disappeared. Not the equipment, the entire building!!
Note: Nuclear refining equipment. But he didn't have weapons. No, he had all the knowledge and equipment to build them as soon as the UN sanctions were gone, and as evidence from the Duelfer Report, we know that he was strongly working on removing those.

2. Saddam Hussein HAD links to al-qaeda. Saddam had no links to 9/11. The headline writers at the New York Times and all those other newspapers that said that after the 9/11 Commision report came out are morons.

3. Oh, assassinate Saddam, that's a smart idea. Who takes power when he's gone?? Uday or Qusay?? Those 2 are (well, were) more blood-thirsty and maniacal that Saddam was.
Saddam was like the single head of a hydra. Cut it off, and more will popup in his place.

Regicidal_Maniac,
I've said this several times, in the boards various political discussions.
During the years past, the United States has held a The enemy of my enemy is my friend attitude.

In WW2, Churchill and Roosevelt knew that Stalin was as evil a man as Hitler, but they also knew they had no hopes of winning the war without the USSR. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

During the Iraq-Iran War, Iran was considered the far greater threat to the Middle East, so the US backed Saddam (I believe Iran was also backed by the USSR, and the US took every opportunity to stop the spread of communism). The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, we knew that they must be stopped. Communism was the ultimate evil, so we armed and trained a "rebel" named Osama bin Laden. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

This administration has not taken up that same montra. Enemies are enemies and friends are friends. This administration has learned from the mistakes of the past. Unlike others, which decided to continue dealing with terrorists in a police fashion, or that pull out at the first death of an American soldier (Somalia, Lebanon), we stand firm.

I'm not touching Israel. I do not feel I have enough knowledge about the situation to participate in an educated discussion. I will say, however, that I've never heard of Israelis strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up buses. I do not consider them terrorists.

As for your interesting attempt at an insult:
neo-con: Believe it or not, I don't even know what this refers to.
right-wing: Darn proud of it.
christian: Actually, Roman Catholic, but I try not to talk religion on the boards.
reich: I take it this is a reference to nazism. I find that interesting.
I was under the impression that nazism was short for 'National Socialism". Socialism is strongly equated with communism, and communism is on the far left of the political spectrum. So, for someone to be a "right-wing nazi" would be an oxymoron.
However, its been many years since I had my Government and Politics class in high school, so I could be wrong about the above paragraph.
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I guess I somehow forgot the, quite obvious, association to the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei as I was referring only to the association Riech has to a State or Empire but I just plumb forgot about the nazis. Whoops.

While on the topic, the National Socialists Party were themselves a bit of an oxymoron as they used left-wing symbols and ideals to eventually push a fascistic right wing agenda. The nazis were right wing although they stared out as a left wing party they went so far left they actually hit the extreme right. So the connotation in connection to my 'insult' still works but it wasn't intended that way.

As to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" foreign policy, does anyone ever wonder why America has all these enemies in the first place? Hint: it's not because they are jealous of you.

Oh an Communism the ultimate evil? Yeah okaaaay. Quick there's a red behind you! No wait it's a witch, no wait it's a terrorist, no wait it's a gay man... Whatever.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Regicidal_Maniac at the time we gave help to Bin Ladin he hadn't yet commited any terrorist acts. We both wanted the Soviets out of Afganistan so we took an enemy of or enemy is our friend attitude. I don't agree with funding Isreal but you can't blame Bush for this. Clinton did the same thing and Kerry will too if he wins. Saddam was not responsible for September 11th but this arguement assumes the war on terror is just assume Osama Bin Ladin. Something you and John Kerry don't understand is the war on terror is all terrorism. Saddam Hussaine harbored terrorists, funded terrorists, gased his own people, commited holocost like crimes, tried to assasinate a United States President, arrested people for fictious crimes, the man was a problem who needed to be illimininated. He should have been illiminated in 1991. Thats one of my biggest problems with the first George Bush. Lucky his son was able to finish the job. I feel much safer now that Saddam Hussaine is in jail. Iran and North Korea are next. Ill take a line from Independence Day "Nuke em. Lets Nuke the basterds"
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
As to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" foreign policy, does anyone ever wonder why America has all these enemies in the first place? Hint: it's not because they are jealous of you.
Well, I'm sure some are jealous.
But for the most part, its simply a matter of You cannot please everyone. No matter what a person, group, country etc. does, someone will be unhappy about the decision.
Say we go into North Koera next, in a couple years. North Korea won't be happy. China wouldn't be happy. Many Americans will not be happy.

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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
Oh an Communism the ultimate evil? Yeah okaaaay. Quick there's a red behind you! No wait it's a witch, no wait it's a terrorist, no wait it's a gay man... Whatever.
I was speaking of the mentality of the time period, not my personal feelings.
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Originally posted by: starkiller
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
Oh an Communism the ultimate evil? Yeah okaaaay. Quick there's a red behind you! No wait it's a witch, no wait it's a terrorist, no wait it's a gay man... Whatever.


I was speaking of the mentality of the time period, not my personal feelings.


Okay I thought you might have been but I still think that the constructedness of the 'Communist threat' is similar to any of today's 'evil enemies'. Fear-mongering and Nationalistic fervor in the name of Patriotism keeps the dissidents in line.

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Originally posted by: jimbo

Something you and John Kerry don't understand is the war on terror is all terrorism.


Snide condescension from Jimbo? Grown a set if not a brain have we?

I understand it ya tool, but I reject it none-the-less. A pre-emptive strike is still an unprovoked attack. Striking fear into the hearts of your 'enemies' could be seen as an act of terror, although the dominant discourse will not allow it to be seen that way and 'the hun' will still be codified and othered as such.

Wave your flag, no wave it harder, like you mean it.

EDIT: Whoops terribly sorry starkiller, it's fixed now.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Regicidal_Maniac,
If I may request...could you fix this last post of yours?? I'd prefer NOT to be given credit for one of jimbo's comments.

Your second quote says it was originally posted by me, rather than its true author of jimbo.
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Regicidal_Maniac in 2003 John Kerry called Saddam a threat that needed to be illiminated. He read the same intellegence as George Bush and made the same decsion. John Kerry was absolutly right. Then Howard Dean and anti-war canidates got popular and John Kerry decided to change his mind on the issue. The story of John Kerry.
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You dumb cluck jimbo, Kerry read the intelligence that had been mocked up from half-truths and hearsay and made the right decision based on what little evidence the Bush administration made available to him and the media.

However the 'evidence' was at best faulty and at worst outright lies.

Bush's intelligence gathering looked for confirmation of a dogmatic view on WMDs and ignored falsifying evidence which would have proved contradictory to their pre-planned war. They had a pretext and a scapegoat and all further investigations which may have revealed the truth to their lies were deemed unnecessary.

Saddam was a bad guy and I'm glad he's gone. The war was bad too and I am sorry God told Bush to invade Iraq.

Osama's a bad guy too, remember him? Along with the Saudis he, and not Saddam, was responsible for 9/11. And yet... he's still out there. You still feel safe Jimbo? America is still sucking on the Saudis and rolling over for them despite there being much clearer links between their money and 9/11 and Saddam and 9/11. Do you still feel safe Jimbo?

[starkiller, so sorry about the fuckup. I can understand how anyone would be annoyed to be mistaken for such an ignorant one-note parrot as jimbo.]
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Can some please tell me why its Ok that Regicidal_Maniac is constantly insulting religious people but its wrong for me to tell gays to go to hell. You say that Saddam is a bad man but don't think we should have done anything about him. It was that logic that told Americans in 1939 that Hitlar wasn't our problem. The Saudis disowned Bin Ladin and did not provide him with any September 11th talk. Bin Ladin is still out there but his organation is dead and 75% of his men are in jail thanks to Bush and no thanks to Clinton who ignored the attack on the Coal. We have made it impossible for him to organize. So yeah I feel safe from the likes of him.
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You really think Bush would have done somthing about the attack on the Coal? Other than somthing stupid? You really think Clinton would have done nothing after 911? Atleast Clinton wouldn't have been over-obsessed about getting Saddam for Papa and oil.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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Originally posted by: jimbo
Can some please tell me why its Ok that Regicidal_Maniac is constantly insulting religious people but its wrong for me to tell gays to go to hell.


you're both wrong.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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Jim, telling people to go to hell implies that you want them to. Which is bad.

Reg is just a fool. Pay him no mind.

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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
out him. Maybe he'll come good again one day. I guess it all depends how useful he is in the region.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
What infuriates me the most is that people who call themselves humanists are against this war. How can you be a humanist if you don't think we should do anything to help the humans in distress in Iraq.


What infuriates me most is people who use the fairytales of the ancient Greek myth of Herakles Romanised as Hercules and grafted onto the life of Yoshua-Ben-Yosef generations after the fact to claim moral and ethical superiority over those they decree to be heathens just because we value human life more than constructed ideology.

Humanists see all loss of life to be a tragic waste, not just those on 'our side'. Helping humans in distress is exactly what was NOT done in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are many people in distress in your own country, why aren't those military monies being spent to feed clothe and shelter those poor wretches?

If you choose to believe the lies then do so but don't think for one second that you can claim the high ground when you have no clue why the US really went after Saddam.


Hello? what are you talking about? Generations? The church began withing the first years after the Resurrection of Jesus. THis is fact. There was no period of "Generations" as you claim. And why would God imitate Greek and Roman myths for his method of saving the world? That makes less sense than not taking out Sadaam Hussein.

Review the facts. When Sadam Hussein came to power, the USSR was the biggest threat the wolrd knew then. It could have easily started a nuclear war. And America supported its enemies. Yeah, we were ignorant of the fact that they would later become terrorst states, harbouring enemies. Reagan, Carter, ect. couldn't see into the future. And now we have deposed Sadaam Hussein. He who murdered millions of his own people is sitting in a prison cell. How can one not be happy about that? Justice will be done.

And it is alos a fact that Sadaam once had weapons of mass destruction. He used them agiant his own Kurds. And he systematcially blocked the actions of inspectors--even kicked them out. What were we supposed to think? Should we accept the word of a murderous satanist who called himself a Muslim? Of Course not.

Have you ever even been to America Reg? Have you ever even been into a church for something other than a wedding? I think not. You obviously don't understand Americans, Christians, or even how the world really works. I can say with utter conviction that it is not I who believes lies, Reg. It it is most certainly you.

Remember the line I took out of my sig? The FOOL has said "There is no God."
Those are God's words, folks. Not mine.

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hey!!gang do you have see this site:www.jibjab.com and have fun
indiana jones and the quest for the holy trilogy comming soon!!
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Originally posted by: MEGATRONRULES!!
hey!!gang do you have see this site:www.jibjab.com and have fun


Yeah that pretty funny
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I've got "This Land" on my computer, and I haven't seen any other flash animations.
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Chaltab I rejected religion when I found out it was based on myths and lies and has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN FACT OR IMPACT UPON THE PHYSICAL WORLD.

If something is not of this world it bears no consideration whatsoever.

I went to a Catholic High school and I spent my youth before that in after-school Christian bible study classes. A damned fine waste of time that was. Come on people let's all be happy and praise Him.

Don't presume to tell me what I know and do not know.

I enjoyed reading the bible in the same way I enjoyed reading Aesop's Fables or Hans Christian Anderson or Greek myth or the writings on the origins of religious belief of scholars like Joseph Campbell.

I was an argumentative child and my Priests and Brothers never had the correct answers they'd always falter and stumble under the weight of irrefutable logic. Then just as you do they'd retreat back into the words of their God, who said it so it must be true and we know it's true it is written and it was written by God and that's how we know it. What a circle jerk.

I don't care what you believe Chaltab just know that you're the blind fool and I don't give a shit what your book says about me.

I'm not insulting religious people, who for the most part are pretty pleasant and docile creatures thanks to their beliefs, I am insulting religion at large. The organisation that has surrounded the belief in the supernatural and wormed its way into the highest levels of world government passing moral judgements and laws that are based on a fantasy.

I don't know if there is a God or not, and neither do you. The point is I don't care either way because it is only through the falsehoods grafted onto ancient historical events and awareded significance by interested parties that you feel some measure of fear of this thing called God. The true God if there is one has no power here on Earth and it meets all who seek to join it in the end.

Just live your live Chaltab, it's likely the ONLY ONE you'll get.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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True nobody knows what religion is true but one has to be otherwise nothing would be hear. I think legeslation like banning gay marriage and partial birth abortion is not a matter of religion but comen human decency. It is wrong for two guys or gals to marry, and it is the most dispicable thing in the world to sab the head of a baby.
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_Maniac
Chaltab I rejected religion when I found out it was based on myths and lies and has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN FACT OR IMPACT UPON THE PHYSICAL WORLD.

If something is not of this world it bears no consideration whatsoever.

I went to a Catholic High school and I spent my youth before that in after-school Christian bible study classes. A damned fine waste of time that was. Come on people let's all be happy and praise Him.

Don't presume to tell me what I know and do not know.

I enjoyed reading the bible in the same way I enjoyed reading Aesop's Fables or Hans Christian Anderson or Greek myth or the writings on the origins of religious belief of scholars like Joseph Campbell.

I was an argumentative child and my Priests and Brothers never had the correct answers they'd always falter and stumble under the weight of irrefutable logic. Then just as you do they'd retreat back into the words of their God, who said it so it must be true and we know it's true it is written and it was written by God and that's how we know it. What a circle jerk.

I don't care what you believe Chaltab just know that you're the blind fool and I don't give a shit what your book says about me.

I'm not insulting religious people, who for the most part are pretty pleasant and docile creatures thanks to their beliefs, I am insulting religion at large. The organisation that has surrounded the belief in the supernatural and wormed its way into the highest levels of world government passing moral judgements and laws that are based on a fantasy.

I don't know if there is a God or not, and neither do you. The point is I don't care either way because it is only through the falsehoods grafted onto ancient historical events and awareded significance by interested parties that you feel some measure of fear of this thing called God. The true God if there is one has no power here on Earth and it meets all who seek to join it in the end.

Just live your live Chaltab, it's likely the ONLY ONE you'll get.


One life, but it last throughout eternity. Be careful where you choose to spend that eternity, Reg.

If "religion"has no basis in fact then how do you explain miraculous healing? Demon posssesion? The miracles and Ressurection of the Lord?

I know for a fact there is a God. It is utterly impossible that this world that is so complex could be the result of a cosmic explosion. And there is nothing you can say that will make me belive otherwise.

And seriously? Why not be happy? Beats depression? Why not praise Him? It beats cursing or ignoring Him. Reg. You have revealed youself to be an enemy of the living God. I pity you. Yeah, I am angry, and I honestly believe that Satan sent you my way just to mess with me. And ultimately, Reg, you only make yourself look like an arrogant prick, ignoring facts and rejecting God.

You can belive whatever you want. Know one is trying to force you to belive, and God wants you to have that choice, because forced love isn't really love. I don't care what else is said here. After this this thread is officially dead to me. Don't even bother replying, because I won't be reading it.



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Marriage doesn't exist outside of society. There is no objective truth that "marriage must be this and not this".

Marriage is a legal contract binding two people together as a couple and awarding them financial couplehood status. Nothing else. Now wether those two people are of opposite of same gender depends on how much a society will allow it's governing body to discriminate against its fellow citizens.

Marriage means nothing more than what you want it to mean, if you hate "dykes" and "fags" and consider them to be an "abomination against God" then obviously you're going to proclaim the sanctity of the holy unity of marriage between one man and one woman. But guess what, it doesn't mean squat.

I don't really care that you hate gays so much that you feel the need to legislate against them, I'm sure they hate you too or more likely feel pity for your ignorance. I'm not saying homosexuality is natural, you only have to look at how the body works to figure out that it is an abnormal practice, but who cares? Are they hurting you? Are they coming on to you? Were you abused by one? I'm trying to figure out why the hate.

When I was an ignorant little kid I too was hateful towards gays even though some of my family friends were gay but as I grew up I learned that they're just people too and have every right to their non-harmful to others activities as you do to yours. I have learned to accept gays and Christians but I find that the former group do not try to push their views onto society like the latter group do and for this reason I have very few Christian friends.

I can understand why abotion upsets you and others but you're a guy and it's not your fucking decision to make. The way I see it and I know I'll be crucified for this is that the unwanted still dividing zygote in a woman's body is as welcome as a cancerous growth and there aren't too many people who would lobby that a cancerous growth has a right to life. It's a hardline stance to take I know and I concede that it is a decision that should be given proper consideration and not just terminated on a whim but it is a choice that should be allowed legal to be made no matter what the reason, up to a point. Obviously one cannot wait too long or the grwoing mass of sperm and egg will develop organs and a brain and then it will have a right to life.

To say that there has to be something out there or there would be nothing down here is just a refusal to accept the scary possibility of cold and empty universe brought about through chance. But to me that's far more exciting than the rather simplistic "God did it" answer, that's just saying that you're too lazy to look too hard at anything. It may be comforting to you and if it stops you from going postal then great but for me the universe is all numbers and random chance. How much more valuable is this life when you consider that if a string of amino acids hadn't gotten it on with itself some four billion years ago you might not be here arguing the point against today? It's exillerating to me but if you don't think so then I appreciate that but I do feel sorry for you that you've concealed the true majesty of life in the universe in a (well meaning) fable designed to make people pay their taxes and stay in line.

I believe in this life and in nothing else, for anything not of this world should be of no concern to this life for it can have no impact and no value in the world and thus be little more than a distraction from reality.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
If "religion"has no basis in fact then how do you explain miraculous healing? Demon posssesion? The miracles and Ressurection of the Lord?


To answer this I will directly quote The Scottish philosopher David Hume (1711-1776) in his essay On Miracles.

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Originally written by David Hume:
[ON MIRACLES - HUME - FROM ESSAYS, MORAL AND POLITICAL]
A WISE man proportions his belief to the evidence. In such conclusions as are founded on an infallible experience he expects the event with the last degree of assurance, and regards his past experience as a full proof of the future existence of that event.

In other cases he proceeds with more caution. He weighs the opposite experiments. He considers which side is supported by the greatest number of experiments; to that side he inclines with doubt and hesitation, and when at last he fixes his judgement, the evidence exceeds not what we properly call probability. All probability, then, supposes an opposition of experiments and observations, where the one side is found to over-balance the other and to produce a degree of evidence proportioned to the superiority.

When the fact attested is such a one as has seldom fallen under our observation, there is a contest of two possible experiences, of which the one destroys the other as far as its force goes, and the superior can only operate on the mind by the force which remains. The very same principle of experience which gives us a certain degree of assurance in the testimony of witnesses gives us also, in this case, another degree of assurance against the fact which they endeavour to establish, from which consideration there necessarily arises a counterpoise, and mutual destruction of belief and authority.

But in order to increase the probability against the testimony of witnesses, let us suppose that the fact which they affirm, instead of being only marvellous, is really miraculous; and suppose also that the testimony, considered apart and in itself, amounts to an entire proof, of which the strongest must prevail, but still with a diminution of its force in proportion to that of its antagonist.

A miracle is a violation of the laws of nature; and as a firm and unalterable experience has established these laws, the proof against a miracle, from the very nature of the fact, is as entire as any argument from experience can possibly be imagined. Why is it more than probable that all men must die; that lead cannot of itself remain suspended in the air; that fire consumes wood, and is extinguished by water; unless it be that these events are found agreeable to the laws of nature, and there is required a violation of these laws, or, in other words, a miracle, to prevent them?
Nothing is esteemed a miracle if it ever happen in the common course of nature. It is no miracle that a man seemingly in good health should die on a sudden, because such a kind of death, though more unusual than any other, has yet been frequently observed to happen. But it is a miracle that a dead man should come to life, because that has never been observed in any age or country.

There must, therefore, be a uniform experience against every miraculous event, otherwise the event would not merit that appellation. And as a uniform experience amounts to a proof, there is here a direct and full proof, from the nature of the fact, against the existence of any miracle; nor can such a proof be destroyed, or the miracle rendered credible, but by an opposite proof which is superior.

The plain consequence is (and it is a general maxim worthy of our attention) 'that no testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle unless the testimony be of such a kind that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavours to establish; and even in that case there is a mutual destruction of arguments, and the superior only gives us an assurance suitable to that degree of force which remains after deducting the inferior.'
THERE surely never was a greater number of miracles ascribed to one person than those which were lately said to have been wrought in France upon the tomb of Abbe Paris, the famous Jansenist, with whose sanctity the people were so long deluded. The curing of the sick, giving hearing to the deaf and sight to the blind, were everywhere talked of as the usual effects of that holy sepulchre. But, what is more extraordinary, many of the miracles were immediately proved upon the spot before judges of unquestioned integrity, attested by witnesses of credit and distinction, in a learned age, and in the most eminent theatre that is now in the world.

Nor is this all; a relation of them was published and dispersed everywhere; nor were the Jesuits, though a learned body, supported by the civil magistrate and determined enemies to those opinions in whose favour the miracles were said to have been wrought, ever able distinctly to refute or detect them. Where shall we find such a number of circumstances agreeing to the corroboration of one fact? And what have we to oppose to such a cloud of witnesses but the absolute impossibility or miraculous nature of the events which they relate? And this surely, in the eyes of all reasonable people, will alone be regarded as a sufficient refutation.

Suppose that all the historians who treat of England should agree that on January 1, 1600, Queen Elizabeth died; that both before and after her death she was seen by her physicians and the whole court, as is usual with persons of her rank; that her successor was acknowledged and proclaimed by the Parliament; and that, after being interred a month, she again appeared, resumed the throne, and governed England for three years; I must confess that I should be surprised at the concurrence of so many odd circumstances, but should not have the least inclination to believe so miraculous an event. I should not doubt of her pretended death, and of those other public circumstances that followed it; I should only assert it to have been pretended, and that it neither was, nor possibly could be, real.
You would in vain object to me the difficulty and almost impossibility of deceiving the world in an affair of such consequence; the wisdom and solid judgement of that renowned queen; with the little or no advantage which she could reap from so poor an artifice. All this might astonish me; but I would still reply that the knavery and folly of men are such common phenomena that I should rather believe the most extraordinary events to arise from their concurrence than admit of so signal a violation of the laws of nature.

OUR most holy religion is founded on faith, not on reason; and it is a sure method of exposing it to put it to such a trial as it is by no means fitted to endure. To make this more evident, let us examine those miracles related in the Pentateuch, which we shall examine as the production of a mere human writer and historian. Here, then, we are first to consider a book, presented to us by a barbarous and ignorant people, written in an age when they were still more barbarous, and in all probability long after the facts which it relates, corroborated by no concurring testimony, and resembling those fabulous accounts which every nation gives of its origin.

Upon reading this book, we find it full of prodigies and miracles. It gives an account of a state of the world and of human nature entirely different from the present; of our fall from that state; of the age of man extended to near a thousand years; of the destruction of the world by a deluge; of the arbitrary choice of one people as the favourites of Heaven, and that people the countrymen of the author; of their deliverance from bondage by prodigies the most astonishing imaginable. I desire anyone to lay his hand upon his heart and, after a
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Saying I can't hate abortion because I am a guy is the fucking stupidest shit I have ever heard. I know several women who hate abortion and abortionists just as much as I do. Why because we don't like seeing children murdered. Abortion is murder no way to possibly argue it isn't. Your destroying a human being. A devoloping fetus is not a caner or a wart or part of the female body it is another human being that should be protected by law from the moment of conception. Also how do you feel about partial birth abortion. Crushing the skulll of a fully devoloped child while its coming into this world. That is so discusting. Those responisible deserve the same fate as those children. I see with your lose of faith also came a lose of all morality or respect for human life. Whether or not God is real our society needs religion. Religion is the only thing that is keeping us civilized. Look at all Godless societies. Bararians all of them. I see with the spread of atheism so does the spread of discust. Which is why people can accept horrible things like abortion and gay marriage. Which is why I will always fight to end such sickness. I blame men like John Kerry for this lose of morals. One of the many reasons John Kerry is unfit for command.
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ok I'm done with this thread, continue your hate speeches without me.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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Jimbo you don't know anything.

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites." - Thomas Jefferson, (1743-1826) American president, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat. Deist, avid separationist.

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution." ... "In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people." ... "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." - James Madison, (1751-1836) American president and political theorist. Popularly known as the "Father of the Constitution." More than any other framer he is responsible for the content and form of the First Amendment.

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."... Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it." ... "But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed." ... "The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles." - John Adams (1735-1826), 2nd President of the United States.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, & the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." - Karl Marx, German political philosopher and economist (1818-1883).

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true." ... "Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes and wishes he was certain of." ... "There is no other life; life itself is only a vision and a dream for nothing exists but space and you. If there was an all-powerful God, he would have made all good, and no bad." - Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist (1835-1910).

"I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious ideas of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God." ... "So far as religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake... Religion is all bunk." - Thomas Edison, American inventor (1847-1931).

"In the long run, nothing can withstand reason and experience, and the contradiction religion offers to both is palpable." ... "The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life." - Sigmund Freud (1856-1939), Austrian physician and pioneer psychoanalyst.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950), Irish-born English playwright.

"Thus I came...to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true....Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience...an attitude which has never left me." ... "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955), German born American threoretical physicist.

"All thinking men are atheists." - Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961), American author.

"I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say that one is an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or agnostic. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time." - Isaac Asimov (1920-1992), Russian-born American author.

"In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point." ... "I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough - I call it the one immortal blemish upon the human race." ... "Which is it, is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's?" - Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900), German philosopher.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." ... "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Benjamin Franklin, (1706-1790), American public official, writer, scientist, and printer who played a major part in the American Revolution.

"No man who ever lived knows any more about the hereafter ... than you and I; and all religion ... is simply evolved out of chicanery, fear, greed, imagination and poetry." - Edgar Allan Poe (1809-1849), American writer.

"Of all religions the Christian is without doubt the one which should inspire tolerance most, although up to now the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men."... "Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world." ... "Men who believe absurdities will commit atrocities." - Voltaire [François Marie Arouet] (1694-1778), French philosopher and writer whose works epitomize the Age of Enlightenment.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus (341–270 B.C.), Greek philosopher.

"Secularism is a 'religion', a religion that is understood. It has no mysteries, no mumblings, no priests, no ceremonies, no falsehoods, no miracles, and no persecutions. It considers the lilies of the field, and takes thought for the morrow. It says to the whole world, Work that you may eat, drink, and be clothed; work that you may enjoy; work that you may not want; work that you may give and never need." ... "As people become more intelligent they care less for preaches
and more for teachers" ... "Why should I allow that same God to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown His own?" ... "Few nations have been so poor as to have but one god. Gods were made so easily, and the raw material cost so little, that generally the god market was fairly glutted and heaven crammed with these phantoms." - Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899), Well known post civil war American political speechmaker and Secular-Humanist.

"Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand." ... "And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have suc
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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several things, since i waasnt here since yesterday morning.

the israel situation: the US is holding a hand over Israel because if they didnt, there wouldnt be any Israel anymore. there is a saying in the Middle East: if all moslem/arab countries spat at once towards Israel, Israel would drown...

the problem is that the Bush Admin does not want to learn from past mistakes. what is going on at this moment is called Imperialism. it was done before in the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th century and nobody wants to return to that and nobody thought it was the best thing.

the USA would not dare go into North Korea, coz now they have nukes, haha... not so funny when the playing field is level, is it?

Socialism is not strongly equated with Communism. not at all! read some more books...

most countries in europe have Socialist parties that are very strong.

Nazism, even though it stands for National Socialismus has nothing to do with Socialism, but it has something to do with Tyranny, Dictatorship and Fascism.

what Stalin did in the USSR has nothing to do with Communism but everything to do with Despotism.

when you break it down and look at it, then Communism is the best for of government there can be, it is excellent. the problem is practice, you cannot put it into practice and hope for a good result. Communism is only good on paper.

i cant remember who said this, but it stuck in my mind. i think it was a brit or something:

"Terrorism is war of the powerless. War is terror of the powerful."

thats all for this time around. cant remember anything at this moment. something will come up though.

"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)