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It's Official: George Lucas hates his fans :P — Page 2

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SilverWook said:

George has had movie critic issues for a long time. There's a reason one of the villains in Willow is named "Kael", and a two headed monster is called an "Ebersisk".

 siskel and ebert were 2 of his biggest advocates and loved star wars (although I think siskel thought last crusade was weak).

apologists like to point out that siskel stated in his 1977 review that the acting in star wars was forgettable, but they neglect to mention that in empire and jedi, siskel praised hamill, fisher and especially ford.  he enjoyed watching the 3 of them grow and develop together.

had siskel been alive in 1999, he would have torn lucas and tpm into pieces.  there was nothing he despised more than an underachieving filmmaker going after a cynical cash grab.

click here if lack of OOT got you down

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 (Edited)

I'd really encourage faneditors not to remove George's name from edits... despite being able to read his comments that way, it is better to assume that is not what he meant. Lucasfilm has (in their own way) been very supportive of the fanediting community, and I think any direct attempts to slight them or George is unnecessary and liable to cause issues.

... As fans of the OUT, there needs to be a change. Even if we feel that George shouldn't take offense to internet complaints, he obviously does. For once, why not acknowledge what George is looking for from the fanbase, and make an effort on our end, to give him what he wants, and to get what we want. Stop all of the George bashing, and switch to a constructively critical tone.

- We asked for a release of the OUT, and got one. It was non-anamorphic, but it was an attempt to do something for the fans that George didn't want to do anyways - a small sacrifice, but one none the less. (also, keep in mind that in 2006, your average person had not converted to HDTV or widescreen, and didn't suffer the same issues with that format that videophiles did)

How many people thanked him for doing that? vs How many people complained about it? Had people even attempted to be content with it, I think we might have seen a Bluray release of the OUT... but obviously that's not how things went. George proved he doesn't react well to negative fan pressure. He expected it on the PT, but not on this.

Years later, after people continued to push and say "The non-anamorphic version isn't good enough", it's time for the Bluray release.... but rather than say "Cool, Star Wars on Bluray" or "I'd prefer not to get this, because I prefer the original releases I got in 2006"... there is an organized boycott generating bad publicity... Not an organized, polite request that the films be included, but a hatred filled boycott. 

This left us (not surprisingly) without the OUT on Bluray...

Has anyone realized it's time for a new approach. Maybe an apology for the boycott and negative press? Maybe some attempt to stop the constant attacks on George? He is the mastermind behind Star Wars and Indiana Jones people... You may disagree with his decisions now, but at the very least the respect we owe him for giving us the OT and Indy 1-3 should keep us civil towards him.

With as many times as George has stated that he doesn't want to release the OUT, to do so would make him look bad, going back on his word, unsure of what he wants... the press jumps all over you for that. Why would he do that for "fans" that are ungrateful for what they're given, and attack him any chance they get.

I read that interview and see one thing - that he is perfectly happy to allow his films to be fanedited, and for those edits to be shared. It's a pretty rare person in any corporation that will allow those kind of freedoms to be taken without persuing legal action. But rather than revel in that... everyone would rather tear him limb from limb.

Just my two cents...

Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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walking_carpet said:

SilverWook said:

George has had movie critic issues for a long time. There's a reason one of the villains in Willow is named "Kael", and a two headed monster is called an "Ebersisk".

 siskel and ebert were 2 of his biggest advocates and loved star wars (although I think siskel thought last crusade was weak).

apologists like to point out that siskel stated in his 1977 review that the acting in star wars was forgettable, but they neglect to mention that in empire and jedi, siskel praised hamill, fisher and especially ford.  he enjoyed watching the 3 of them grow and develop together.

had siskel been alive in 1999, he would have torn lucas and tpm into pieces.  there was nothing he despised more than an underachieving filmmaker going after a cynical cash grab.

Pauline Kael may have been Star Wars' biggest detractor  in 1977 though.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

I just think the GOUT was half-assed. If Lucas did believe that he would never release the OOT again, then he should've stuck to his guns. If he did, then it should've been done properly or not at all. I just think the OOT is too big a stumbling block for most people to get over, good bad or indifferent. On the other hand, I also think its entirely true that many fans have been whiney and immature. I don't personally feel like I should be grateful for anything that I don't like, but the sheer amount of crap Lucas has faced from his fans is pretty staggering and many have been immature, disrespectful, downright rude, and even threatening. I can hardly blame Lucas for not liking this kind of childish bashing. I think there's a place for real constructive criticism here, but unfortunately George's attitude towards the OOT and the fans' attitude in turn has created a whirlpool that caused problem on both ends.  It's now an impossible impasse. I don't see the GOUT as something sort being grateful for and I do see Lucas as the big figurehead of why the OOT isn't out. I also see lots of fans behaving like assholes and I understand why Lucas doesn't take to it. He has quite the right to be upset. 

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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nightstalkerpoet said:

I'd really encourage faneditors not to remove George's name from edits... despite being able to read his comments that way, it is better to assume that is not what he meant. Lucasfilm has (in their own way) been very supportive of the fanediting community, and I think any direct attempts to slight them or George is unnecessary and liable to cause issues.

... As fans of the OUT, there needs to be a change. Even if we feel that George shouldn't take offense to internet complaints, he obviously does. For once, why not acknowledge what George is looking for from the fanbase, and make an effort on our end, to give him what he wants, and to get what we want. Stop all of the George bashing, and switch to a constructively critical tone.

- We asked for a release of the OUT, and got one. It was non-anamorphic, but it was an attempt to do something for the fans that George didn't want to do anyways - a small sacrifice, but one none the less. (also, keep in mind that in 2006, your average person had not converted to HDTV or widescreen, and didn't suffer the same issues with that format that videophiles did)

How many people thanked him for doing that? vs How many people complained about it? Had people even attempted to be content with it, I think we might have seen a Bluray release of the OUT... but obviously that's not how things went. George proved he doesn't react well to negative fan pressure. He expected it on the PT, but not on this.

Years later, after people continued to push and say "The non-anamorphic version isn't good enough", it's time for the Bluray release.... but rather than say "Cool, Star Wars on Bluray" or "I'd prefer not to get this, because I prefer the original releases I got in 2006"... there is an organized boycott generating bad publicity... Not an organized, polite request that the films be included, but a hatred filled boycott. 

This left us (not surprisingly) without the OUT on Bluray...

Has anyone realized it's time for a new approach. Maybe an apology for the boycott and negative press? Maybe some attempt to stop the constant attacks on George? He is the mastermind behind Star Wars and Indiana Jones people... You may disagree with his decisions now, but at the very least the respect we owe him for giving us the OT and Indy 1-3 should keep us civil towards him.

With as many times as George has stated that he doesn't want to release the OUT, to do so would make him look bad, going back on his word, unsure of what he wants... the press jumps all over you for that. Why would he do that for "fans" that are ungrateful for what they're given, and attack him any chance they get.

I read that interview and see one thing - that he is perfectly happy to allow his films to be fanedited, and for those edits to be shared. It's a pretty rare person in any corporation that will allow those kind of freedoms to be taken without persuing legal action. But rather than revel in that... everyone would rather tear him limb from limb.

Just my two cents...

A non anamorphic title in 2006 was unacceptable. Using a 1993 video master was just cheap. Had any other studio pulled that with a "crown jewel" title at the time, they would have gotten an earful, and deservedly so.

No other director pulls this crap! Notice nobody bitches about the walkie talkies in E.T. these days?

Widscreen tv sets have been around since the mid 90's. Many early DVD titles were anamorphic.

Fans have tried to be nice in the past. Fans have tried to be patient. All the petitions and politeness went nowhere. How many times can you willingly get slapped in the face by someone who shows such contempt for their own films?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Mike O said:

I just think the GOUT was half-assed. If Lucas did believe that he would never release the OOT again, then he should've stuck to his guns. If he did, then it should've been done properly or not at all. I just think the OOT is too big a stumbling block for most people to get over, good bad or indifferent. On the other hand, I also think its entirely true that many fans have been whiney and immature. I don't personally feel like I should be grateful for anything that I don't like, but the sheer amount of crap Lucas has faced from his fans is pretty staggering and many have been immature, disrespectful, downright rude, and even threatening. I can hardly blame Lucas for not liking this kind of childish bashing. I thinks here's a place for real constructive criticism here, but unfortunately George's attitude towards the OOT and the fans attitude in turn has created a whirlpool that caused problem on both ends.  It's now an impossible impasse. I don't see the GOUT as something sort being grateful for and I do see Lucas as the big figurehead of why the OOT isn't out. I also see lots of fans behaving like assholes and I understand why Lucas doesn't take to it. He has quite the right to be upset. 

"Star Wars will never be on home video."
?George Lucas, circa 1978/1979

Every filmmaker has their fans and foes. You think Kubrick has always been universally beloved? Or Spielberg? Or Hitchcock? Internet trolls are nothing compared to some movie critics back in the day.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

nightstalkerpoet said: It was non-anamorphic, but it was an attempt to do something for the fans that George didn't want to do anyways - a small sacrifice, but one none the less. (also, keep in mind that in 2006, your average person had not converted to HDTV or widescreen, and didn't suffer the same issues with that format that videophiles did)

How many people thanked him for doing that?

I'm sorry, but only a real doormat would thank him for the privilege of buying 60 bucks worth of laserdisc bootlegs.

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SilverWook said:

nightstalkerpoet said:

I'd really encourage faneditors not to remove George's name from edits... despite being able to read his comments that way, it is better to assume that is not what he meant. Lucasfilm has (in their own way) been very supportive of the fanediting community, and I think any direct attempts to slight them or George is unnecessary and liable to cause issues.

... As fans of the OUT, there needs to be a change. Even if we feel that George shouldn't take offense to internet complaints, he obviously does. For once, why not acknowledge what George is looking for from the fanbase, and make an effort on our end, to give him what he wants, and to get what we want. Stop all of the George bashing, and switch to a constructively critical tone.

- We asked for a release of the OUT, and got one. It was non-anamorphic, but it was an attempt to do something for the fans that George didn't want to do anyways - a small sacrifice, but one none the less. (also, keep in mind that in 2006, your average person had not converted to HDTV or widescreen, and didn't suffer the same issues with that format that videophiles did)

How many people thanked him for doing that? vs How many people complained about it? Had people even attempted to be content with it, I think we might have seen a Bluray release of the OUT... but obviously that's not how things went. George proved he doesn't react well to negative fan pressure. He expected it on the PT, but not on this.

Years later, after people continued to push and say "The non-anamorphic version isn't good enough", it's time for the Bluray release.... but rather than say "Cool, Star Wars on Bluray" or "I'd prefer not to get this, because I prefer the original releases I got in 2006"... there is an organized boycott generating bad publicity... Not an organized, polite request that the films be included, but a hatred filled boycott. 

This left us (not surprisingly) without the OUT on Bluray...

Has anyone realized it's time for a new approach. Maybe an apology for the boycott and negative press? Maybe some attempt to stop the constant attacks on George? He is the mastermind behind Star Wars and Indiana Jones people... You may disagree with his decisions now, but at the very least the respect we owe him for giving us the OT and Indy 1-3 should keep us civil towards him.

With as many times as George has stated that he doesn't want to release the OUT, to do so would make him look bad, going back on his word, unsure of what he wants... the press jumps all over you for that. Why would he do that for "fans" that are ungrateful for what they're given, and attack him any chance they get.

I read that interview and see one thing - that he is perfectly happy to allow his films to be fanedited, and for those edits to be shared. It's a pretty rare person in any corporation that will allow those kind of freedoms to be taken without persuing legal action. But rather than revel in that... everyone would rather tear him limb from limb.

Just my two cents...

A non anamorphic title in 2006 was unacceptable. Using a 1993 video master was just cheap. Had any other studio pulled that with a "crown jewel" title at the time, they would have gotten an earful, and deservedly so.

No other director pulls this crap! Notice nobody bitches about the walkie talkies in E.T. these days?

Widscreen tv sets have been around since the mid 90's. Many early DVD titles were anamorphic.

Fans have tried to be nice in the past. Fans have tried to be patient. All the petitions and politeness went nowhere. How many times can you willingly get slapped in the face by someone who shows such contempt for their own films?

 

Keep in mind that George views the OUT as a "first draft" these days. While that may really bother some people, and while many disagree, what artist is going to put hard work and effort into making their first draft available to the public when the "final draft" is available?

Sure, if you ask to see a pencil sketch of a piece of art that has since been finished and colored, the artist will happily show the original version. But why would they go back and make sure all of the erase marks were cleaned up and put the effort into making large professional-quality prints of something they feel is an inferior product? 

The 2006 release was a response to the petitions and politeness. It seems to me that no release at all would have been the slap in the face. Instead, George did something for the fans that he didn't really want to do.

He wasn't willing to perfect his "first draft", but he was willing to hand us the best copy of it that he had - the 1993 laserdisc master. 

It just seems to me that when petitions and politeness were the tools of the fanbase, we saw some results. With boycotts and ranting, we have absolutely nothing. Even in the official OT petition, a negative tone has been taken:

culminated with the release of the 2006 limited edition DVDs, which contained substandard transfers from 1993

as the steward of one of the most recognizable and beloved film series of all time, you have a responsibility

The deliberate destruction of the original elements demonstrates such disrespect for film history that many of us find it hard to believe, 

Why couldn't the petition stick to more of the "Thank you for giving us Star Wars. Many of us are nostalgic and would like the chance to view the films the way we grew up with. We really appreciated that you included the original versions of the films on the 2006 DVDs. We understand that the 1993 transfers were the best available at that point. There have been recent rumors that a few original prints of the films do exist in private collections. Now that the home format standard has changed to Bluray, it would be really awesome if you could find some of these remaining prints and release higher quality versions of the films the way many of us saw them in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's."

I guess what I'm saying is that in the future, I hope for something, as opposed to nothing. With that in mind I choose to be polite and petition. 

Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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 (Edited)

Well, don't forget there was about 20 solid years from 77-97 where GL probably had the most loyal fans of any director in the history of...ever. Is 20 years not enough? All that positivity and good vibes from the first generation ultimately seemed to mean very little to LFL once it was clear the products would sell fine either way.

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Those "first drafts" won a bunch of Oscars, revolutionized the film industry, and made their creator rich beyond the dreams of most men.

If he's that embarrassed by them, he should give the Oscars back to the academy, and refund my ticket money. ;)

With the rumors of prints being destroyed, no sane collector is going to tell Lucasfilm what they have.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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nightstalkerpoet said:

He wasn't willing to perfect his "first draft", but he was willing to hand us the best copy of it that he had - the 1993 laserdisc master. 

Nice trolling.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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 (Edited)

Lucas often refers to himself as a painter continuing his work on one piece of art for many years. I say, fine. Artists can show first draft on galleries, then work on it more etc... No problem.

But a painter does not sell his work to someone then few years later comes in the customer's house to take it off the wall to draw a mustache in the middle, then ask few dollars more or he'd leave with it.

It's not even a problem of an artist vs his fans; it's just something that you don't do if you're a well educated person and if you love art. Specialy when the artist is not the only person who worked on the "painting". It's a slap in the face of the people who worked on that "first draft" and help the "painter" to get a name, fame and money.

Man, I feel like I'm posting these thoughts for the 100th times. But really, the guy does not seems to understand.

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I think of it like this....

You rent a house from its owner.  You move your family in, pay your rent, and everything is going fine.

Several years later the owner of the house suddenly decides to get some builders in and move some walls around, changing the sizes of the rooms.

Of course, the owner of the house has the right to alter his property as he sees fit.  However, you and your family have been the ones to use and enjoy the house for several years.

Wouldn't you be a little bit annoyed?  Just because you don't legally own the house doesn't mean you have no personal investment in it.  And the owner is a douche if he doesn't recognise that fact.

 Spoiler free for the ST

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nightstalkerpoet said:

 

We asked for a release of the OUT, and got one. It was non-anamorphic

How many people thanked him for doing that?

Hilarious.

nightstalkerpoet said:

also, keep in mind that in 2006, your average person had not converted to HDTV or widescreen, and didn't suffer the same issues with that format that videophiles did)

HDTV or widescreen tv's have nothing to do with the quality of that release. I'm no 'videophile", but when I put on a DVD that looks worse than my old VHS, well, we have a problem.

 

 

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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 (Edited)

nightstalkerpoet,

I appreciate what you're getting at. Where has the negativity gotten us, right? Well, it's gotten us noticed by George. Don't forget that the negativity about Jar Jar got him almost completely removed from Episodes II and III.

If Lucas released the OOT on BD, I doubt he'd get labeled as a flip-flopper. He would be the good guy, giving fans what they wanted.

Lucas could package the OOT together with a blu-ray box set of his latest special editions, label them "Crap I found in a salt mine", and people would hail him as a cultural hero. He could even do a commentary track about how disappointing they were, and slap a $200 price tag on the whole thing. People would eat it up, including me. He really can't lose.

Still, we could probably change our message from "You suck! Give us the originals!" to "Give us the originals. We love them!"

So in the meantime, what can we do on our own? Well, we have top men working on it.

TOP MEN.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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nightstalkerpoet said:

We asked for a release of the OUT, and got one.

There's a certain causality you're following that I don't buy.  I simply don't believe the GOUT was released because of consumer demand.  I don't think it even factored in.  As far as I can tell, there were only two reasons the GOUT was released: to shut down the burgeoning bootleg laserdisc business, and to make the Special Editions look appealing when contrasted with a really awful transfer.

Given that, we have nothing to be thankful for, unless that "thank you" is followed by "may I have another!"

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Erikstormtrooper said:

Still, we could probably change our message from "You suck! Give us the originals!" to "Give us the originals. We love them!"

So in the meantime, what can we do on our own? Well, we have top men working on it.

TOP MEN.

Meanwhile, there's George-Bashing threads.

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TMBTM said:

But a painter does not sell his work to someone then few years later comes in the customer's house to take it off the wall to draw a mustache in the middle, then ask few dollars more or he'd leave with it.

How many people have had George come into their homes, alter their OUT VHS tapes and laserdiscs, then threaten to take them? 

Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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nightstalkerpoet said:

TMBTM said:

But a painter does not sell his work to someone then few years later comes in the customer's house to take it off the wall to draw a mustache in the middle, then ask few dollars more or he'd leave with it.

How many people have had George come into their homes, alter their OUT VHS tapes and laserdiscs, then threaten to take them? 

 

Since the VCR and laserdics, that were the best medium in their time, exist more or less no more I think it can be said that the only way to still have the OUT in its official today's best format is simply impossible.

If "the painter" comes into my house and says "listen, your painting is crackling. I can do some restoration for some money". I'll be pleased. If he draws a mustache in the middle, he'll just not have my money. Unless I think the mustache is good looking... but a lot of people don't and find this offensive for the original piece of art.

The problem here is that he gives us the choice between a crackling painting and a new version of the painting. While most people would simply want a good restoration.

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nightstalkerpoet said:

TMBTM said:

But a painter does not sell his work to someone then few years later comes in the customer's house to take it off the wall to draw a mustache in the middle, then ask few dollars more or he'd leave with it.

How many people have had George come into their homes, alter their OUT VHS tapes and laserdiscs, then threaten to take them? 

The correct question is: how many theatre owners with prints of Star Wars have been ordered to return their prints, in exchange for prints of the Special Editions?

I'm afraid the answer is quite a few.  TMBTM's metaphor isn't perfect, but it's close.  Star Wars is a cultural work that was out circulating in the public in better-than-HD quality for decades.  Lucasfilm is actively trying to remove it from the public space, and as far as the best quality versions go, it has been very successful.  The low-quality versions you speak of are not the central issue at all.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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The medium is not the message.

The message is the award winning motion picture Star Wars (1977) and it's sequels.

The message is not a slowly fading VHS tape or a rotting film in a private collection.

I want to be able to re-read and share the message with people who were not alive in 1977. I also have this probably archaic romantic idea of people being able to receive this message long after I'm dead.

I'm willing to pay (God knows I've paid many times in the past) but the writer of the original message will now only sell me a wonky photostat with spelling errors.

Ever so often he keeps replacing the previously available wonky photostat with a more wonky photostat with more spelling mistakes.

All the guy had to do all along was sell me again the version I read when I was seven.

Is that too much to ask?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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I've always hoped George would wise up and release the OOT in a big mega-ultra boxes set with all of the other stuff he insists we have. It'd have to be a no BS restoration and I'd have to read about it looking pants-crappingly perfect online, but I'd that came out PROPERLY, I'd pay ANY price for it. 

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Bingowings said:

Meanwhile, It would be interesting to see if the original cuts are presented along side any restored cuts made available.

Fantastic news on the hammer front. Thank goodness this is actually happening now that the missing bits from Dracula have been found.

You know, I don't think George really hates anybody. He just doesn't want to do the big blockbusters or run the company anymore and I wish the guy all the best. Yeah, we'll probably never see the OOT officially restored the way it should be but so is life. (Not that we'll let that stop us. ;) I didn't ever want to see any more LFL stuff personally so I'm totally fine with this news.

But I do find it sad that people just give up. I mean, if George actually does those little art films that's one thing. (And something I'd really like to see to be honest. Even if it's just a litmus test.) But just going "hey, I'm done-and screw the haters" is something else.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com

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nightstalkerpoet said:

The 2006 release was a response to the petitions and politeness. It seems to me that no release at all would have been the slap in the face. Instead, George did something for the fans that he didn't really want to do.

He wasn't willing to perfect his "first draft", but he was willing to hand us the best copy of it that he had - the 1993 laserdisc master.  

The slap in the face was putting it on a DVD labelled "Bonus Disc" and having it's 'special feature' be a trailer for a video game. If it was, at the very least, a real choice to only get the original version you might have a point. He'd have taken a chance of getting completely creamed by the media for releasing a 2006 DVD with only a laserdisc master on it. He didn't though, he shoved the SE 2004 in our faces with that release, proudly presented on disc 1 in anamorphic widescreen. It's a big "Ha ha! I can restore the version you like I just choose not to!!!"

Best analogy I could use for this is this:

What if I bought the Mona Lisa, printed a high quality copy of it, then drew a blimp on the copy presenting that as the Mona Lisa to art galleries. The blimp itself would only change 10% of the picture. I would keep the original in a box in my closet. I say "I'll never let the original Mona Lisa be presented again! I'm achieving my original dream I had as a kid that the Mona Lisa had a blimp in it! I own the rights to the picture! I paid for it!" Mona Lisa SE would be partly my work due to the blimp, so I'de get historians to consider me co-artist of the Mona Lisa itself. While the original rots away in a box in my closet.

That analogy is basically what's happened to the OT.


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