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Is this set up any good? — Page 2

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NTSC is a YUV native format. Computers all work in RGB, so that's the disconnect. If I have a 10bit Uncompressed 4:2:2 video stream on my computer it's technically YUV. If I take in into Shake to do some work on it, Shake internally oversamples that signal as 16bit 4:4:4 RGB... That way, when I render back to that 10bit YUV codec, I don't have many worries about drifting color conversions and clipping.

Now if you're working on a feature film, for example, you're going to be getting scans from the negative at 16 bit with 4:4:4 RGB color sampling native. 4:2:2 YUV is a compromise in videoland of data rates vs the inherant inability of tape to hold that much data.

Not only does DV sample at 4:1:1, but's it's also compressed about 5:1. So you're already losing cirtical detail and color if that's your initial mastering format (blockiness in even colors like walls or the blacks). Mpeg is 4:2:0 and VERY compressed - so it's only good as a delivery format.

Now in terms of why digitize to 10 bit from an analog source: It's pretty much the same argument as vinyl vs. CD. That analog source is likely to contain subtle picture information that you risk clipping off with a DV codec or even 8bit. You want to overcompensate to make sure nothing gets away from you. In terms of immediate picture, you might not see any difference whatsoever (First generation DV from a Digibeta master looks incredibly good) - but if you're going to be apply filters and color work to that source, every generation of that digital video file will start to degrade quickly. And the same argument for a high end laserdisc player - it's an analog signal on disc and you want fidelity.
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Well said, Charlie. Nice to have you on these boards.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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A few comments:

1. I believe only PAL DV is 4:1:1. NTSC DV is 4:2:0. Or it's the other way around; I can never remember. But they're different.

2. Feature films are also often stored as log formats, so that there's more gradation in dark areas and less in light ones. Or it's the other way around; I can never remember. But it's not linear, anyway, like all the consumer YUV/RGB solutions we're using. Don't ask me to explain how that goes, exactly.

3. You can work in Photoshop in LAB colourspace, which is (I believe) almost identical to YUV. It's set up the same way, anyway: independent luma and two chroma channels. That lets you do stuff like blur stuff in one channel (let's say luma) without messing with the colour. Very handy for smoothing out skin, for example.

4. From what I understand, the gamut of YUV is smaller than that of RGB. Of course just how smooth and effective each colourspace is depends on sampling rates, etc., but in general RGB can display more colours than YUV (e.g. a whiter white, or pinker pink). Which I imagine is one of the reasons working in RGB is the default method for computers.
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Whoa, things seem to be getting very technical (at least for me anyway). Still, there's a lot of very informative things being discussed which I'm sure will be of help me and others looking to attempt our own captures.

I've been offered a HLD-X9 for about £1000 + shipping but am going to try to hold out for an X0. Assuming I can get one and can then use the s-video output, do you thing this card will be a good choice bearing in mind what has recently been discussed. It says it can capture uncompressed and lossless video and has filtering and noise reduction technology for analog input amongst other things.

http://www.canopus-uk.com/UK/products/EDIUSNX_for_HDV/pt_EDIUSNX_for_HDV.asp

Sorry to ask you to keep looking at card specs, but as always appreciate any advice you guys can offer.