mrbenja0618 said:
DominicCobb said:
(although now I'm for 4-5-1-2-3-6) and I've stuck by this belief because its the only way the movies work as is.
Now, I want to try watching them this way...
...
TV's Frink said:
In before 4-5-1-2-3-6.
MrInsaneA said:
And you know what, damn it all, throw Padme in there to.
Poor girl either dies of a "broken heart" or (what will be in my edit) doesn't die on-screen. And then she gets a small reference in the final film?? Poo-poo. Have her next to Anakin. Maybe make her look a little bit older, I dunno. It feels wrong, but it also feels very right.
I agree! Everyone should be there!
I think there were some Muppets in Jedi, right?
darth_ender said:
I definitely agree with her not dying at the end of ROTS...makes a lot more sense...I see what you mean about ROTJ and I'd have to think about it. If you could pull it off in your edit, I'd find it interesting for sure. Would you use Hayden's or Sebastian's head?
Sebastian. For sure.
^Good, I'm glad to hear that. I'm still a little iffy about actually liking her inclusion, but as I said, I came here for variety, not the for only way to experience Star Wars. If you make it, I may like it.
As for Qui-Gon, I'm still interested in ways we could include him in the OT. For instance, hearing echoing words coming to Obi-Wan from Qui-Gon, much as Yoda heard from Obi-Wan, seem to suffice and indicate that they are still in communion. Phrases that come to mind include Liam Neeson's line from Batman Begins, "You were my greatest student." Maybe have him hearing Qui-Gon's dying words about "Train the boy" when telling Luke about his father while in the hut (and not Vader, since I would like to see a version that did not reveal that Anakin and Vader were the same when watched 1-6). I know I'm repeating a bit, but other possible line insertions could be during his pondering his own name as "Obi-Wan Kenobi...Obi-Wan," instead of Ben, and on the Death Star seeking Vader. Perhaps even while R2 is showing the computer display of the tractor beam locations, if the pause between C-3PO's line and Obi-Wan's "I don't think you boys can help me," Qui-Gon might have some important line to fill in the gap.
And now that we've brought up the unique watching order of 4, 5, 1-3, 6, perhaps some ambitious editor could even reorder the film numbers when creating the whole set so that they would be watched in that order. Indy 2 is a prequel though it never expressly says so. Perhaps saying "Episode III: The Phantom Menace," would not be such a big deal, as long as something at the end of one film or the beginning of another indicated we were going to take a journey back in time, even if in no other way than including it in the opening crawl.
Other ideas that have come to mind:
-Obi-Wan is already a Jedi Knight instead of a Jedi Tenderfoot ;) at the beginning of TPM as shown in The Coming Storm edit.
-"Your father would have wanted you to have this when you were old enough." Someone did a good job demonstrating this.
-For me personally, I'd like to see a grungier PT, while a further updated OT. For instance, I love how Adywan updated the Battle of Yavin briefing and holographic display. But other cheesiness remains, such as the Star Trek TOS style Death Star panels and displays. I'd personally like to see more holograms or at least panels that do more than have lights that blink for no apparent purpose. Simultaneously, I wouldn't want to throw it out completely, as it remains part of how Star Wars was originally defined for me. Just updating the tractor beam display monitors, maybe adding a couple of details here and there, etc. would improve it while retaining the flavor. With that, I'd like the PT to remain more consistent with that OT flavor; I love some of the shots done by bobgarcia for his Ep III edit, showing R2 accessing an OT style monitor on Death's Hand rather than a holographic display of Palpatine's location.
I know these are all extremely ambitious, and I lack the skill to even create a decent mockup still, but I at least feel I can contribute ideas for those more talented than I am to use.
mrbenja0618 said:
MrInsaneA said:
And you know what, damn it all, throw Padme in there to.
Poor girl either dies of a "broken heart" or (what will be in my edit) doesn't die on-screen. And then she gets a small reference in the final film?? Poo-poo. Have her next to Anakin. Maybe make her look a little bit older, I dunno. It feels wrong, but it also feels very right.
I agree! Everyone should be there!
I think there were some Muppets in Jedi, right?
Yeah, that might be a bit much. You did get an LOL from me :)
I never had a problem with the death star control room with the exception of the obvious TV switcher that's in a couple shots... (Which I removed in my cut.) But I'm up for some visual ideas.
Akwat Kbrana said:
From the ROTJ screenplay:
Obi-Wan Kenobi said:
When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Ogana, on Alderaan.
Of course, how a faneditor would go about communicating all that to the viewer is another matter entirely...
Is this from the novelization? It sounds pretty close if I remember correctly, though I'm at school and don't have access to it. That could be a good explanation, though more would be required, I feel, to explain it at the end of ROTS as well.
Now that I'm thinking about their being brother and sister early on, I think this makes it clear that Leia cannot be revealed to be Luke's sister when Padme gives birth or else it would both spoil the surprise as well as gross out any potential viewers learning too early on, were we to watch it in the 4,5,1-3,6 order (we have to come up with a more concise way of describing this viewing order).
EDIT: AHA! It is a direct quote from ROTJ! I'm so good.
I should have said "visual examples".
timdiggerm said:
Perhaps there's a way to communicate that Padme is dying? I'm not sure why she would be dying, but that might work.
On the other hand, the fact that her husband is a powerful Sith Lord, apprenticed to the ruler of the Galaxy, who is also a Sith Lord, might be a good reason to send her and the kids into hiding. Adopting Leia doesn't seem so crazy, then, even if Padme isn't dying.
I know, too many consecutive posts. This explanation works if we show it in the..."revised" viewing order (is that an okay term to explain the out of sequence viewing?). If we go completely consecutively, it would of course assume the whole audience knows who Anakin becomes. The more I write and read in this thread, the more you have all convinced me of the right order to view these movies.
EDIT: Mrbenja, I'm not good at any sort of visuals, nor do I really have any decent software to even do a hack job. I'm glad to hear you removed some switches. I am not saying you need to do any further work on your edit because I really want to see it and I do love the look of the old Star Wars. But since we're discussing better integration, and because I do like modernization as well, I feel that more display monitors would look better, and perhaps a grey instead of red (as proposed for the Revisited wishlist) would appeal to me more. Heck, I even like the plainness of this:
over this:
EDIT: Found a better picture. Looks like there are more displays than my mind remembered, but at the same time, look at all those lights that serve no purpose but to blink. While a part of me likes it because of its nostalgic feel, I would love an updated version. I personally don't like the decay of the Empire theory and would prefer an appearance that technology had advanced in the Star Wars universe, even if the special effects are different.
darth_ender said:
^Good, I'm glad to hear that. I'm still a little iffy about actually liking her inclusion, but as I said, I came here for variety, not the for only way to experience Star Wars. If you make it, I may like it.
As for Qui-Gon, I'm still interested in ways we could include him in the OT. For instance, hearing echoing words coming to Obi-Wan from Qui-Gon, much as Yoda heard from Obi-Wan, seem to suffice and indicate that they are still in communion. Phrases that come to mind include Liam Neeson's line from Batman Begins, "You were my greatest student." Maybe have him hearing Qui-Gon's dying words about "Train the boy" when telling Luke about his father while in the hut (and not Vader, since I would like to see a version that did not reveal that Anakin and Vader were the same when watched 1-6). I know I'm repeating a bit, but other possible line insertions could be during his pondering his own name as "Obi-Wan Kenobi...Obi-Wan," instead of Ben, and on the Death Star seeking Vader. Perhaps even while R2 is showing the computer display of the tractor beam locations, if the pause between C-3PO's line and Obi-Wan's "I don't think you boys can help me," Qui-Gon might have some important line to fill in the gap.
And now that we've brought up the unique watching order of 4, 5, 1-3, 6, perhaps some ambitious editor could even reorder the film numbers when creating the whole set so that they would be watched in that order. Indy 2 is a prequel though it never expressly says so. Perhaps saying "Episode III: The Phantom Menace," would not be such a big deal, as long as something at the end of one film or the beginning of another indicated we were going to take a journey back in time, even if in no other way than including it in the opening crawl.
Other ideas that have come to mind:
-Obi-Wan is already a Jedi Knight instead of a Jedi Tenderfoot ;) at the beginning of TPM as shown in The Coming Storm edit.
-"Your father would have wanted you to have this when you were old enough." Someone did a good job demonstrating this.
-For me personally, I'd like to see a grungier PT, while a further updated OT. For instance, I love how Adywan updated the Battle of Yavin briefing and holographic display. But other cheesiness remains, such as the Star Trek TOS style Death Star panels and displays. I'd personally like to see more holograms or at least panels that do more than have lights that blink for no apparent purpose. Simultaneously, I wouldn't want to throw it out completely, as it remains part of how Star Wars was originally defined for me. Just updating the tractor beam display monitors, maybe adding a couple of details here and there, etc. would improve it while retaining the flavor. With that, I'd like the PT to remain more consistent with that OT flavor; I love some of the shots done by bobgarcia for his Ep III edit, showing R2 accessing an OT style monitor on Death's Hand rather than a holographic display of Palpatine's location.I know these are all extremely ambitious, and I lack the skill to even create a decent mockup still, but I at least feel I can contribute ideas for those more talented than I am to use.
I plan on altering PT moniters/screens (such as the ones in the Announcer's box during the Podrace) to look less advanced and more PT, as well as making the holograms match OT standards also. I'm glad you mentioned BobGarcia's work, as it's him that inspired me to do so.
I feel that Qui-Gon should have a voice over role in the PT rather then the OT. He should communicate with Anakin, and try to be his moral compass. It would mirror Obi-Wan's connection with Luke, except that Qui-Gon fails. I'm uploading a short clip as we speak that illustrates what I have in mind.
Here it is.
I added Anakin's Theme to this scene, and then deepened the pitch to make it match the somber tone of Shmi's funeral. Anakin's response of "I won't fail again." is now directed at Qui-Gon and not Shmi, referring to his killing of the Tuskens.
Thoughts?
Well I can agree with more PT voiceover too. I liked what I saw TheCutter doing (where is that guy?). I remember him explaining Dagobah as a force magnifier via voiceover. If we follow the conventional order for the films, I feel it would be beneficial in the OT as well, though. If we rewrote all the films to follow the revised order, I think it would only be confusing.
darth_ender said:
Well I can agree with more PT voiceover too. I liked what I saw TheCutter doing (where is that guy?). I remember him explaining Dagobah as a force magnifier via voiceover. If we follow the conventional order for the films, I feel it would be beneficial in the OT as well, though. If we rewrote all the films to follow the revised order, I think it would only be confusing.
Personally, I feel 4-5-6 and then 1-2-3 works best. All the mystery is in the OT and all the answers are in the PT. Just watch them in the order they were released. :P
So.....you DO like the idea of Qui-Gon being Anakin's guide? Or not?
I like it. My concern is that the message might be confusing considering Anakin is mourning his mother at this moment. I enjoy the music and the voiceover, but I'm not sure it fits perfectly with the scene itself. Two thoughts come to mind: continue with this idea, but find ways to incorporate Qui-Gon voiceovers in at least one or two places prior to give the impression that he communicates often with him, or find a different scene to show Anakin regretting his attack on the Tuskens, maybe while confessing to Padme. I'm not sure if that would work, but it's a thought. Again, let me emphasize that I do like the music and the Neeson clip (from Batman Begins, yay!), but I simply feel it might work better elsewhere. (I always worry my critique may be offensive; if you are pleased with how it turned out, don't listen to me of course)
Sorry, I'm a bit behind you. Watching the kids at the same time. I do like it, and if you find an effective way to do it, I'd be pleased. I completely agree that he was a character that really clicked, better than any other PT character, and it's a bummer that he died so soon. This would still make him pertinent, as I feel he should be.
darth_ender said:
I like it. My concern is that the message might be confusing considering Anakin is mourning his mother at this moment. I enjoy the music and the voiceover, but I'm not sure it fits perfectly with the scene itself. Two thoughts come to mind: continue with this idea, but find ways to incorporate Qui-Gon voiceovers in at least one or two places prior to give the impression that he communicates often with him, or find a different scene to show Anakin regretting his attack on the Tuskens, maybe while confessing to Padme. I'm not sure if that would work, but it's a thought. Again, let me emphasize that I do like the music and the Neeson clip (from Batman Begins, yay!), but I simply feel it might work better elsewhere. (I always worry my critique may be offensive; if you are pleased with how it turned out, don't listen to me of course)
Nonono, I asked for your thoughts sir. Be as blunt as you need to be.
I agree that there needs to be prior communication between Qui-Gon and Anikan. And I tried to put Qui-Gon's voiceover during his talk with Padme about killing the Tuskens, but no matter where I put it, it felt out of place to me.
Well then, let me see if I can come up with any ideas for you. I'll get back to this later, maybe tomorrow :)
mrbenja0618 said:
MrInsaneA said:
And you know what, damn it all, throw Padme in there to.
Poor girl either dies of a "broken heart" or (what will be in my edit) doesn't die on-screen. And then she gets a small reference in the final film?? Poo-poo. Have her next to Anakin. Maybe make her look a little bit older, I dunno. It feels wrong, but it also feels very right.
I agree! Everyone should be there!
I think there were some Muppets in Jedi, right?
Needs more Nuked fridge and Howard the Duck
<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>
darth_ender said:
EDIT: Found a better picture. Looks like there are more displays than my mind remembered, but at the same time, look at all those lights that serve no purpose but to blink.
Pretty sure you just found a mirrored image. Note the apparent ngle of the two central sections; they're not flat to each other. Just from this Revisited comparison you can see at least one panel not in your pic.
Yeah, you're right. Still, I simply don't like that set very much.
MrInsaneA said:
darth_ender said:
I like it. My concern is that the message might be confusing considering Anakin is mourning his mother at this moment. I enjoy the music and the voiceover, but I'm not sure it fits perfectly with the scene itself. Two thoughts come to mind: continue with this idea, but find ways to incorporate Qui-Gon voiceovers in at least one or two places prior to give the impression that he communicates often with him, or find a different scene to show Anakin regretting his attack on the Tuskens, maybe while confessing to Padme. I'm not sure if that would work, but it's a thought. Again, let me emphasize that I do like the music and the Neeson clip (from Batman Begins, yay!), but I simply feel it might work better elsewhere. (I always worry my critique may be offensive; if you are pleased with how it turned out, don't listen to me of course)
Nonono, I asked for your thoughts sir. Be as blunt as you need to be.
I agree that there needs to be prior communication between Qui-Gon and Anikan. And I tried to put Qui-Gon's voiceover during his talk with Padme about killing the Tuskens, but no matter where I put it, it felt out of place to me.
Just thinking...a possible time to include some sort of quote could be while Anakin is standing outside meditating after his bad dreams of mama. Again, I'm not technically savvy, but is it possible to stretch out moments with no dialogue and little movement without making it obvious that the shot was slowed or reversed? That could give you a little more time both there and while grieving with Padme.
Also, you should raise the volume of Qui-Gon shouting, "Anakin! Nooo!" when Anakin kills the Tusken Raiders. Until I used the subtitles I was unsure that was even him.
Along with these suggestions, and keeping with the spirit of the thread, I am liking Qui-Gon putting his arm around Sebastian/Anakin more and more as I think about it.
Any other thoughts on how to unify these trilogies better, whether specific or generic changes? What about the lightsaber battles? I thought GL's explanation of an old cripple vs. an untrained boy as among his lamest.
EDIT: Another potential voiceover could take place when Anakin is waiting outside the Lars home, just before Padme comes and hugs him. You could even leave Padme out and simply have the voiceover, then cut to him racing away on the speeder bike.
darth_ender said:
Any other thoughts on how to unify these trilogies better, whether specific or generic changes? What about the lightsaber battles? I thought GL's explanation of an old cripple vs. an untrained boy as among his lamest.
While making the OT duels seem a bit more dynamic? I don't mind the PT duels as much as many on this site do, but they do get pretty silly at times. I like how Adywan improved the speed of the Kenobi/Vader fight in Revisited. I think faster OT and slower PT would help it mesh better. The most ofensive things to me are Ewan McGregor's pointless spins and poses. Far too often his choreographer had him waste energy and have cool looking and inefficient stances (this coming from a guy with no fencing skills).
In my edit, I'm taking great strides to simplify the fights in Revenge of the Sith. Slowing the shots down only works in a few shots without looking awkward, so I might just have to get look-alikes and shoot some new shots altogether.
darth_ender said:
While making the OT duels seem a bit more dynamic? I don't mind the PT duels as much as many on this site do, but they do get pretty silly at times. I like how Adywan improved the speed of the Kenobi/Vader fight in Revisited. I think faster OT and slower PT would help it mesh better. The most ofensive things to me are Ewan McGregor's pointless spins and poses. Far too often his choreographer had him waste energy and have cool looking and inefficient stances (this coming from a guy with no fencing skills).
IMO the only things that need to be changed about the PT duels are A.) No Yoda lightsaber fights and B.) Shorten the Anakin and Obi-Wan fight a littttlllle bit more. (the swinging on the tower is ridiculous.) and C.) Make Windu the only one to fight Palps. Other then that, I am more then okay with them. In fact, I'm in the small minority of people on this site who love the swirly-twirly choreographed nature of it all.
