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Integrating the two trilogies thread

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So in advance I will make two disclaimers: 1) a similar thread may already exist, but I couldn't find it quickly and didn't want to pore through 20 pages or more looking for it; 2) I know a lot of people don't like the idea of changing the OT at all, so this thread may not be for everyone.

With that, this forum has several other threads for ideas, whether they be simplistic and modest or radical and outlandish.  I hope this thread can bridge the gaps between the two trilogies.  As we all know, they differ in a number of ways, and I encourage any ideas to improve the continuity between the two.  This can be from whatever perspective, such as only changing the PT to better mesh with the OT, only changing the OT to better mesh with the PT (I'll bet that's a popular category here), or compromise.  This can allow for a 1-6 viewing, or a 4-6, 1-3 viewing.

I personally enjoy the PT in spite of its many shortcomings and inconsistency between the two sagas.  I think that realistically it would be impossible to leave the burden of smoothing out plot holes up to the PT.  Besides, there are elements of the PT that I do like.  Thus, I subscribe to a compromise approach.  I also think it would be nice to see a version that could be watched 1-6 or 4-6, 1-3.

My first suggestion is to incorporate some reminder of Qui-Gon into the OT.  Most particularly, it seems like Obi-Wan could perhaps hear him once or twice throughout Ep IV.  One of my first posts on this site included this thought.  He could simply seem to be lost in thought when Qui-Gon's voice comes to guide him, perhaps while contemplating "Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time..." or on the Death Star while seeking out Vader.  Just a thought, though I hope to come up with many more.  Any thoughts from you guys?

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While I am excited about your release mrbenja0618, let me clarify that the integration I mean is not including them in the same movie, but rather smoothing out the differences between the trilogies so they fit together better.  I really do look forward to your completed project :)

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haha. I hear ya. I guess this thread seems odd because to me what you are proposing is the very reason any of us edit the SW films anyway. No offense though. Maybe good ideas can come from here.

 

 

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mrbenja0618 said:

what you are proposing is the very reason any of us edit the SW films anyway.

Speak for yourself :p

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mrbenja0618 said:

haha. I hear ya. I guess this thread seems odd because to me what you are proposing is the very reason any of us edit the SW films anyway. No offense though. Maybe good ideas can come from here.

Well, I suppose that is true.  If this thread dies it's okay.  But it seems to me that many people edit them simply to be better movies, often independent of any other story.  I meant this to be the whole big picture thread where ideas could be discussed that would span the whole 6 films instead of localized single film improvements.  But hey, if it's not a good thread, let it die.  No worries.

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I'm glad this thread was made. On this site changing the OT to fit the PT is avoided like the plague. I understand the sentiment, but I don't agree. My preferred versions are the theatricals and the revisited (well they will be when released). But the problem with these is that they don't work 1-6. I've always believed that the correct order is 4-6, 1-3 (although now I'm for 4-5-1-2-3-6) and I've stuck by this belief because its the only way the movies work as is.

I would love to see versions of the OT that were specifically made to satisfy those watching 1-6. Sure the movies probably wouldn't be as good, but that's not really the point. People argue that putting PT elements in ANH would take away the ability for it to stand alone. Well, don't we already have TWO near perfect versions of ANH that stand alone? Why not one that would follow the PT more closely? 

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Thanks, Cobb.  I don't know if this thread will get to its intended use until I (we) can justify its existence.  I have to be honest that for me there is no definitive version of Star Wars.  I came to this site for the opposite reason of many: I wanted to see as many different versions of Star Wars as I could.  I may love Revisited and choose it when trying to keep to the original story, yet enjoying new effects, I also love watching different takes on the story.  I really would like a version that fits it all together.  You may not see the real OT, but ideally it would make a cohesive storyline.

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I never had a problem with the PT looking different that the OT, I always felt it could be explained by a general lack of decay (or malaise or whatever) once the Empire took over.  Of course, that only works if you don't watch the SE versions of the OT...

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Qui-Gon needs to be at the end of ROTJ. I know, I know, everyone's pissed enough as it is with Hayden being there (which is totally understandable it doesn't make sense for his ghost to be younger.) but Qui-Gon is one of the few Prequel characters that actually resonates with the audience like the OT characters do, AND his role is important considering he's the one who started the whole force-ghost craze, and plucked little Anikan from obscurity.

That's as far as I would go in terms of integrating Mr. Jinn into the OT.

 

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TV's Frink said:

In before 4-5-1-2-3-Trek11.

fixed

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MrInsaneA said:

Qui-Gon needs to be at the end of ROTJ. I know, I know, everyone's pissed enough as it is with Hayden being there (which is totally understandable it doesn't make sense for his ghost to be younger.) but Qui-Gon is one of the few Prequel characters that actually resonates with the audience like the OT characters do, AND his role is important considering he's the one who started the whole force-ghost craze, and plucked little Anikan from obscurity.

That's as far as I would go in terms of integrating Mr. Jinn into the OT.

 

I've had this thought as well, but I'm not entirely positive I agree, though I think we should discuss it more, and maybe we can make it worthwhile.  I completely agree that he was one of the most interesting PT characters; he had substance, was well-acted, and made the audience believe the Jedi were actually mystical and cool.  I especially agree with the tie-in with the force ghost thing and as I said in my first post, he needs to communicate with Obi-Wan.  My concern is that Luke has absolutely no contact with him, and he would simply wonder who this extra guy standing there is.  To me, if there were some clever way for Luke to get to know him even briefly, then I would be with you 100%.

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darth_ender said:

MrInsaneA said:

Qui-Gon needs to be at the end of ROTJ. I know, I know, everyone's pissed enough as it is with Hayden being there (which is totally understandable it doesn't make sense for his ghost to be younger.) but Qui-Gon is one of the few Prequel characters that actually resonates with the audience like the OT characters do, AND his role is important considering he's the one who started the whole force-ghost craze, and plucked little Anikan from obscurity.

That's as far as I would go in terms of integrating Mr. Jinn into the OT.

 

I've had this thought as well, but I'm not entirely positive I agree, though I think we should discuss it more, and maybe we can make it worthwhile.  I completely agree that he was one of the most interesting PT characters; he had substance, was well-acted, and made the audience believe the Jedi were actually mystical and cool.  I especially agree with the tie-in with the force ghost thing and as I said in my first post, he needs to communicate with Obi-Wan.  My concern is that Luke has absolutely no contact with him, and he would simply wonder who this extra guy standing there is.  To me, if there were some clever way for Luke to get to know him even briefly, then I would be with you 100%.

Who said Luke has to know? Luke turns away from the Trio of the Original ghosts, and Qui-Gon appears next to Anakin. Maybe puts his hand on his shoulder, if that's do-able. 

And if Luke HAS to know....well I'm sure we can figure something out....

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TV's Frink said:

I never had a problem with the PT looking different that the OT, I always felt it could be explained by a general lack of decay (or malaise or whatever) once the Empire took over.  Of course, that only works if you don't watch the SE versions of the OT...

My reason for disagreeing with this is mostly a stylistic thing.  I always preferred Star Wars over Star Trek because it looked like a place where people actually lived.  I wouldn't mind if Naboo was a more pristine planet as part of its little perfect culture, but everything PT is too slick and flashy.  A nice opportunity to show a grungy place would have been in the Ep II cantina, but it still seemed too fancy and fun.  Nothing ever breaks down in the PT.

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MrInsaneA said:

darth_ender said:

MrInsaneA said:

Qui-Gon needs to be at the end of ROTJ. I know, I know, everyone's pissed enough as it is with Hayden being there (which is totally understandable it doesn't make sense for his ghost to be younger.) but Qui-Gon is one of the few Prequel characters that actually resonates with the audience like the OT characters do, AND his role is important considering he's the one who started the whole force-ghost craze, and plucked little Anikan from obscurity.

That's as far as I would go in terms of integrating Mr. Jinn into the OT.

 

I've had this thought as well, but I'm not entirely positive I agree, though I think we should discuss it more, and maybe we can make it worthwhile.  I completely agree that he was one of the most interesting PT characters; he had substance, was well-acted, and made the audience believe the Jedi were actually mystical and cool.  I especially agree with the tie-in with the force ghost thing and as I said in my first post, he needs to communicate with Obi-Wan.  My concern is that Luke has absolutely no contact with him, and he would simply wonder who this extra guy standing there is.  To me, if there were some clever way for Luke to get to know him even briefly, then I would be with you 100%.

Who said Luke has to know? Luke turns away from the Trio of the Original ghosts, and Qui-Gon appears next to Anakin. Maybe puts his hand on his shoulder, if that's do-able. 

And if Luke HAS to know....well I'm sure we can figure something out....

Okay, I like that.

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darth_ender said:

TV's Frink said:

I never had a problem with the PT looking different that the OT, I always felt it could be explained by a general lack of decay (or malaise or whatever) once the Empire took over.  Of course, that only works if you don't watch the SE versions of the OT...

My reason for disagreeing with this is mostly a stylistic thing.  I always preferred Star Wars over Star Trek because it looked like a place where people actually lived.  I wouldn't mind if Naboo was a more pristine planet as part of its little perfect culture, but everything PT is too slick and flashy.  A nice opportunity to show a grungy place would have been in the Ep II cantina, but it still seemed too fancy and fun.  Nothing ever breaks down in the PT.

I agree and disagree. The style of the prequels certainly "degrades" to a more OT look in many ways, but even ROTS has it's overly-shiny neon CGI poo-poo. Which is why all my edits will strive for a more OT LOOK as well as a more OT feel.

And glad you liked the idea Ender. 

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And you know what, damn it all, throw Padme in there to.

Poor girl either dies of a "broken heart" or (what will be in my edit) doesn't die on-screen. And then she gets a small reference in the final film?? Poo-poo. Have her next to Anakin. Maybe make her look a little bit older, I dunno. It feels wrong, but it also feels very right.

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I definitely agree with her not dying at the end of ROTS...makes a lot more sense...I see what you mean about ROTJ and I'd have to think about it.  If you could pull it off in your edit, I'd find it interesting for sure.  Would you use Hayden's or Sebastian's head?

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If Padmé doesn't die, what's the excuse for Luke not staying with her?

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From the ROTJ screenplay:

Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

 

When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible.  So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Ogana, on Alderaan.

 

Of course, how a faneditor would go about communicating all that to the viewer is another matter entirely...

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Perhaps there's a way to communicate that Padme is dying? I'm not sure why she would be dying, but that might work.

On the other hand, the fact that her husband is a powerful Sith Lord, apprenticed to the ruler of the Galaxy, who is also a Sith Lord, might be a good reason to send her and the kids into hiding. Adopting Leia doesn't seem so crazy, then, even if Padme isn't dying.

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TV's Frink said:

mrbenja0618 said:

what you are proposing is the very reason any of us edit the SW films anyway.

Speak for yourself :p

I fart in your general direction! =)

 

 

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DominicCobb said:

(although now I'm for 4-5-1-2-3-6) and I've stuck by this belief because its the only way the movies work as is.

 

Now, I want to try watching them this way...

 

 

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darth_ender said:

 A nice opportunity to show a grungy place would have been in the Ep II cantina, but it still seemed too fancy and fun.  Nothing ever breaks down in the PT.

I hope I fixed this in my edit...