Sign In

Info Wanted: Raiders of the Lost Ark - is there a version with original color timing?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Is there a version/original print scan out there with the original color timing?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

The blu-ray IS the original color timing, it was just someone happened to grade the print scan floating around the internet to match the DVDs.

According to a friend of mine who saw a recent screening of an original 35mm print, the yellow tint of the blu-ray is supposed to be there, meaning the version floating around the internet that’s of a print has incorrect colors like the DVD.

Don’t believe what others say cause they’re most likely basing their source off of the incorrectly graded print circulating around here.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

That print scan was not graded to match any DVD. The scan was corrected using a projected 8mm print. But, it does not have what one might consider the “correct” color timing.

Having looked at another scan of an original print that is closer to the Blu-ray color-wise, I’ll say that the Blu-ray looks like an honest attempt to match the original look, but a poorly executed one. The overzealous, pervasive orange tinting with bad color separation and dulled highlight dynamics kill it in my opinion.

Adding some warmth and lowering the contrast a bit on the 35mm scan that’s out there now would probably be more authentic.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

Also the accusations about DNR were false as there is plenty of grain in the BD transfer

Author
Time

There very much was DNR applied to the BD transfer. It isn’t waxified, but the WOWOW broadcast version (compression artifacts and all) has more visible detail than the BD in some scenes, and vice versa in some others. The image isn’t totally destroyed by DNR, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t use more of it than they should.

None of that even matters when trying to determine if the BD is any good, because IMO nothing compares to the awful digital changes made to the BD transfer.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

If you’re referring to the boulder rod and snake reflection removal honestly I’ve never made a big deal about that considering how small those differences have been

At least the original matte painting was restored for the Jeep shot instead of the CGI version from the 2008 DVD

Author
Time

No, the boulder rod and snake reflections were removed in 2003, and have been missing since. To my knowledge the CGI Jeep shot was never used on a home video release; it was only used in UK HDTV broadcasts. I think the 2008 DVD was the same transfer as the 2003 DVD.

Anyway, I’m talking about stuff like this: http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/999MJNNU

They attempted to digitally fix the registration error on the negative in this scene (the image goes in and out of focus every couple seconds for a few shots), and they made it even worse.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

That definitely looks really weird

Also the CGI jeep shot has repeatedly been said to be present on the 2008 DVD

I know the BD has some small audio alterations too but idk what

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I used to check out the 2008 DVD from my local library™ and I’m pretty sure I would have noticed.

I know captainsolo has said in the past that the BD 5.1 mix is very revisionist, but I personally don’t know any specifics about it.

EDIT: This video says/shows that the CG Jeep was seen on the Sci-Fi channel in the US. I believe it was also used in a BBC broadcast, but I can’t confirm that.

EDIT 2: DVDbeaver’s page on the 2008 DVD makes no mention of the shot being changed, and the discs are virtually identical.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

Interesting, I heard in another thread here that version contained the shot on the DVD

Anyway, from what I heard it mainly involved adding some minor sound effects (like with the fire stream during the bar fight and additional ricochet sounds in points)

Author
Time

It’s not bad perse but it’s unfaithful to the truly intended look

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Indeed. The first one in particular is awful - the dude’s eyes and nose look clearly photoshopped in the Blu-ray image. There’s not as much of a difference in shots 2 and 3, although the torch has been altered detrimentally for the Blu-ray.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Explanation:

Dek Rollins said:

They attempted to digitally fix the registration error on the negative in this scene (the image goes in and out of focus every couple seconds for a few shots), and they made it even worse.

Watching the shots in motion, it appears they cut out parts of an earlier frame, and then animated that 2D shape over the image… poorly. Like, seriously, his eyes and nose just start popping out of his face, and they did the same thing to his shirt. In the torch shot, you can see the original torch moving around behind the photoshop image they stuck over it.

Again about the 35mm LPP scan, I wouldn’t really call it “unfaithful” to the intended look. It’s just a grungy print (a dupe of an original print as far as I know), so darker scenes are very dark and contrasty, and it’s too cool. There is also some sort of fluid stain that lasts the second half of reel 2.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

so what would be the perfect version to watch?

Author
Time

Truthfully, there isn’t one yet. I’ve been experimenting with regrading the 35mm LPP release to better resemble the other original prints, but even that would still have all the film damage etc. It really depends on what your preference is.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

Dek Rollins said:

Explanation:

Dek Rollins said:

They attempted to digitally fix the registration error on the negative in this scene (the image goes in and out of focus every couple seconds for a few shots), and they made it even worse.

Watching the shots in motion, it appears they cut out parts of an earlier frame, and then animated that 2D shape over the image… poorly. Like, seriously, his eyes and nose just start popping out of his face, and they did the same thing to his shirt. In the torch shot, you can see the original torch moving around behind the photoshop image they stuck over it.

Again about the 35mm LPP scan, I wouldn’t really call it “unfaithful” to the intended look. It’s just a grungy print (a dupe of an original print as far as I know), so darker scenes are very dark and contrasty, and it’s too cool. There is also some sort of fluid stain that lasts the second half of reel 2.

Jeez…I bought the Blu-rays when they came out but never got around to watching them. I just popped them in to check out these shots and, my god, what a failure. I would take the registration error 1000 times over this amateurish After Effects nonsense. Thank you for sharing this.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

SpacemanDoug said:
I know the BD has some small audio alterations too but idk what

Dek Rollins said:
I know captainsolo has said in the past that the BD 5.1 mix is very revisionist, but I personally don’t know any specifics about it.

This scene’s a good example. There’s wayyyy more richochets in the BD mix.

2003 mix

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm6tcQUl_jI

2012 mix

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ImY6EOvzFpg

Yes I know the first video is in a different pitch. It was the only video I could find off hand of the 2003 mix (the pitch is correct on DVD).

Author
Time
 (Edited)

If this reaches UHD BD next year, the color should be interesting.

I saw a DCP viewing several years ago. It was clearly from the same source as the BD, but a little better (perhaps because of the wide color gamut). The orange faces were slightly toned down. The controversial color of the Nazi flag was a tad less orange and a little more red…but still of a red-orange tone.