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Info Wanted: My Own Preservation...

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Hey There!!!

First of all, you guys are great. Reading about all your projects is fantastic and is really encouraging. I’m glad that so many are so unwilling to let go of the OT.

As for my own preservation project, it is FAR less ambitious than anything I’ve read here. Here is what I am planning to do and I would like to put it out here for feedback and to get some basic questions answered…

I have a Sony DVD Recorder standalone unit, a Sony VCR and the VHS copies of the “faces” edition of the OT. What I would like to do is simply copy the VHS to DVD using the recorder. This is simple enough. I’m not that concerned with picture or sound quality…as long as it is an average to above average copy, I am perfectly happy. Besides, my first exposure to the SW and ESB was from bootlegs that my dad bought back in the early 80s before even Jedi came out. These bootlegs were filmed in the theater and were of terrible quality, but they still had a certain atmosphere and feel that made them special to me, so in the end, I’m not looking for DVD quality copies of the OT. I’ve watched them is VHS quality for years…I don’t mind watching them like that for the rest of my life.

Here’s the part where I need help from you guys. What I would like to do is add custom DVD menus and such and make it as close to an actual official DVD release as possible.
Once I record the VHS to DVD with the recorder, how do I get what’s on that DVD into the computer? What do I use to make menus and such and then burn it back to DVD on my computer? I have a DVD burner for the PC and I also have a program for DVD menus called MY DVD. I have absolutely zero experience in this and am not afraid to try and fail a few times before I get it.

Any comments or suggestions?

I appreciate any and all help I get…and keep up the good work!!!

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First of all, there's a chance that the macrovision on the VHS will prevent you from copying the DVD.

If it doesn't, then you will presumably have a DVD with a standard DVD structure, sans menu (unless the Sony adds a rudimentary menu.)

What I would do is copy the VOBs to my harddrive, and import them into DVD-Lab. DL will join the VOBs for me. I can then put chapter breaks at specific points, and create menus for the video. When I compile the files, it will break up the VOBs again for the 2GB limit.

Mind you, unless you are using Win2000 or WinXP, you will not be able to join the VOBs due to the 2GB limit. Off the top of my head, I don't think that it is necessary to join the VOBs to begin with, but I like to be thorough.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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MeBe covered it pretty well. However, I'm curious if you still have those filmed-in-the-theater bootlegs you grew up with at all. They may help some of the people around here in their restorations in some way or another.

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

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There is a decoder that will allow the VHS to be copied to DVD, so no problems there.

There are menus, just ordinary ones....basically a menu with all the titles.....and the recorder automatically makes chapters every 6 minutes or so as you record.

What are the VOBs? Files on the DVD? I have Windows 2000, so no worries there.

Another thing I'm hoping is that the quality doesn't get degraded when I go into the computer and then back on to DVD again....will there be any problems with that?
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No...sorry Rev. Those suckers are long gone. And I miss them SOOOOOO much. I mean Empire was a very dark movie....seeing a rather degraded copy made it WAY more darker for some reason. Whenever I watch ESB now, it never feels as dark as it should be to me....thanks to that tape.
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"There is a decoder that will allow the VHS to be copied to DVD, so no problems there."

Which I've seen being sold at Best Buy!?! What's up with that? Anyways, that's one technical hurdle cleared.

"There are menus, just ordinary ones....basically a menu with all the titles.....and the recorder automatically makes chapters every 6 minutes or so as you record."

I kinda figured it would. Don't worry, since these can easily be dumped.

"What are the VOBs? Files on the DVD? I have Windows 2000, so no worries there."

They are "Video Object" files, comprising primarily of the audio and video.

"Another thing I'm hoping is that the quality doesn't get degraded when I go into the computer and then back on to DVD again....will there be any problems with that?"

Once it's on the computer, there's a lot you can do without messing up the files. The only reason the VOB files are broken up into 2GB sections is for backwards compatibility with FAT file limitations. W2000 and XP can use NTFS, which can recognize files >2GB. At the very least, it allows you to compile an entire 2 hour film as one whole file, to be subsequently broken up by your DVD compiling program.

Your DVD player will jump from VOB to VOB seamlessly, as will a software player on your computer.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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MeBeJedi has been very accurate in his directions. However, I have an objection:
It seems to me that when it comes to DVD format, you are a newbie. In that sense, trying to make DVD's with menus etc without knowing what .vob .ifo and .bup are, is too ambitious. I would recomend that you played around with programms like DVD decrypter, Smartripper, DVDshrink, IFOedit or DVDremake until you make yourself comfortable with DVD structure, and then try to make your copy.
And now, for your feature presentation:
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
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"In that sense, trying to make DVD's with menus etc without knowing what .vob .ifo and .bup are, is too ambitious."

Not really. I was making really cool menus long before I knew what these were. It wasn't until I started copying Studio DVDs that I started getting into the structure of VOBs and IFOs, and then that was just to remove FBI warnings and studio logos. Since he is working on a straight transfer of the film from a capture, DVD structure at this point in time, is a needless detour, though I agree it is important to learn for more ambitious projects.

And should that time come, let me know. I've got oodles of links and documentation that I can post for you.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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MeBeJedi...you are the man!!!! This is turning out to be a whole lot easier than I expected.

Damn, I'm glad I found this board!!!

Could you give me more info on the DVD-Lab program? I've been to their site and they offer several programs in addition to DL. Do I need any of those specifically?

Just for my information and cuz I'm getting interested in the whole thing...what are IFO and BUP file? And could you post those links to all that info? I do have many other
VHS tapes I want to convert to DVD...and I would like to know just how much I can really do?

Also, I have some homemade DVDs of an old TV show and the episodes were recorded together as one title....I would like to break the episodes up into separate titles....how do I go about doing this? Is there another program that I need to do video editing or will DVD-Lab work great with that too.

Once again, thanks for all the help here, guys!!! You are all awesome!!!
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Glad to be of assistance. (And yes, I AM the man. )

"Could you give me more info on the DVD-Lab program? I've been to their site and they offer several programs in addition to DL. Do I need any of those specifically?"

For simple menus, DVD-Lab is all you really need. Get some DVDs under your belt before using the other programs. I like DVD-Lab Pro because my DVDs often have more than one soundtrack.

"what are IFO and BUP file? And could you post those links to all that info?"

IFO files are essentially playback instructions, and BUP files are backups. PM me your address (don't post it in the thread), and I'll send you some information.

"Also, I have some homemade DVDs of an old TV show and the episodes were recorded together as one title....I would like to break the episodes up into separate titles....how do I go about doing this?"

The quickest way would be this:
1) Keep the original VOBs together.
2) Import all VOBs into DVD-Lab
3) Assign chapter points throughtout video, including the beginning of each episode, and key scenes throughout each episode.
4) Create playlists for each episode (Chapters 1-5 for Ep.I, Chapters 6-10 for Ep.II), so that when one episode is done, you are returned to the main menu.
5) Create menus for episodes, and sub-menus for chapters within each episode.
6) Master the disc.

Now, this is easier said than done, but it's good experience. DVD-Lab has a low learning curve, but still has a lot of great features.

As for IFOs and BUPs - I have never had to go into these files to get a homemade DVD to do what I wanted it to do. As those who have seen my SW DVD (Rikter, Laserman) can attest to, I can make elaborate, yet simple-to-use menus for my DVDs with DVD-Lab pro. Maybe I'll post a screenshot from DVD-Lab showing what it can do.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
It wasn't until I started copying Studio DVDs that I started getting into the structure of VOBs and IFOs, and then that was just to remove FBI warnings and studio logos.

LOL! Removing FBI warnings was the sole reason I started my way to DVD editing...
This is off-topic, I know, but these warnings are so irritating!
I mean, wouldn't the companies be legaly covered if they put the disclaimers as a link in the main menu, or at least not prohibit the FF operation?
Why do they have to annoy us each time we insert the disk? And particularly for the Star Wars trilogy DVD (PAL): The disclaimer is 1 minute long for christ's shake! and you can't fast forward! That's disrespect towards the paying customer if you ask me...
And now, for your feature presentation:
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
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"Why do they have to annoy us each time we insert the disk? And particularly for the Star Wars trilogy DVD (PAL): The disclaimer is 1 minute long for christ's shake! and you can't fast forward! That's disrespect towards the paying customer if you ask me..."

Agreed. I make copies of all my daughter's Disney films. 1, so I can put the originals safely away, and 2, to get rid of all the fucking ads and disclaimers. Jesus Christ, it takes 5 minutes to get to the damn movie! My copies start right at the intro, and end right at the credits. No menus, no nothing. The movie plays as soon and the drawer closes. Soooooo much better.

[EDIT] At the very least, they should put all that crap in the same file, so you can skip over all of it in one step.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Hey MeBeJedi.....I have anothe question for you concerning this project of mine....

Now I said I was going to copy the VHS tapes to DVD with a Sony DVD Recorder, right?

Well, the recorder is capable of recording different time intervals.....there's a setting for 2 or 3 or 4 hours.
Since the SW movies are just a bit over 2 hours, I would like to record them at the 3 hour setting and then stick in the trailers also.

My question is this: When I import the VOB files into DVD-Lab...will there be a problem since there is actually 3 hours of recording time, but only 2 hours of space on the DVD? Won't that send up a red flag somewhere?

I haven't tried it yet, but I was thinking about it and wondered if that would be a problem.
I don't think it would be because there is 3 hours of recording time (at a slightly lesser quality than shorter recording times), but the VOB files take up the same file space as a 2 hour recording would.

Please let me know what you think.....or if you need further clarification. This might be a bit confusing.
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"Well, the recorder is capable of recording different time intervals.....there's a setting for 2 or 3 or 4 hours.
Since the SW movies are just a bit over 2 hours, I would like to record them at the 3 hour setting and then stick in the trailers also.

My question is this: When I import the VOB files into DVD-Lab...will there be a problem since there is actually 3 hours of recording time, but only 2 hours of space on the DVD? Won't that send up a red flag somewhere?"

Yes, because the files are already compressed. Now, some programs can recompress the MPEG even more (I believe DVDLab will do this). However, it's generally not as good an MPEG codec as you would get from an actual mastering program. Considering that your master source is VHS, you really don't want to compress these files anymore than you need to.

Your best bet - copy the movie from the beginning ("A long time ago.....") to the final credits. You might want to time it, and see how much you can squeeze in. Mind you, my transfers had the entire intro (Fox theme, Lucasfilm theme, ending credits), but the LD master is of higher quality, and not only has fewer artifacts when compressing, but actually compresses better than a VHS capture (GIGO), so my version would still look better than yours.

So, you have three choices
1) Just stick to the immediate film (my recommendation for this particular scenario, at least until you have better options). Try to squeeze in as much as you can in the 2-hour setting. Put any extras on a separate disc.
2) Record all of what you want on the 3-hour setting, and recompress (there are a number of applications that will do this, but visual quality will suffer in all cases.)
3) Buy a dual-layer DVD burner to get past the 4.7 GB limit (You can get a great one for $60.)

"I don't think it would be because there is 3 hours of recording time (at a slightly lesser quality than shorter recording times), but the VOB files take up the same file space as a 2 hour recording would."

They would take up more space, but again, it would record everything you wanted, and you could recompress to a smaller size (quality takes a hit.)

[EDIT] It just occured to me, I don't know for sure if the VOBs would take up more space than not. It would be interesting to try it both ways and find out (if you have the patience for it. )

And keep me informed of your progress.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I really don't think the VOBs would take up more space.......the recorder must be doing the compressing right then and there during the recording process.

So the compression would vary depending on what time setting you used (2 hour, or 3, etc.), but in the end the VOBs still cant be larger than the disk capacity.

It makes sense logically.
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"but in the end the VOBs still cant be larger than the disk capacity. It makes sense logically."

True, but how many shows can you record at one time? I would assume the hard drive is big enough to copy several shows, rather than a single 2-hour movie at high quality. That would not be smart engineering. What is the make and model of your unit?

[EDIT] Oops, perhaps what you mean by "disk capacity" is the DVD capacity, in which case it must be limited to 4.7 GB regardless of the hard drive size. I keep thinking in terms of a capture that you can offload to computer (Hey, I didn't get much sleep last night. )

Well, then...it's between choices 1 and 2. Which one are you going to try?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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When I get to it, I'm gonna record just the movie at the 3 hour setting and then see how big the VOBs are. If they come out to less than the 4.7 GB capacity, then I should be able to import it into DVD-Lab and make my menus and then burn it right back onto disk without any problems. But I'm curious to know if those VOBs will be less than 4.7.....

Thanks for all your help, MeBeJedi!!!!

You are a lifesaver!!!!

I think it's time to just simply do it and then see what happens....there are still plenty of options if it doesn't work.

Will keep you apprised!!!