Info Wanted: 'LOTR - FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING': Green tint removed? — Page 4

@Spaced Ranger: Great post! You do have some good points there, though I doubt it's got something to do with an attempt of expanding the color gamut, or moving D65 around.

I mean, these movies are first color timed to be viewed in digital cinemas, right? And digital cinemas use a wider color gamut than HDTV so if the teal, orange and green were there in the cinema it can't mean it's something they did for that reason.

And I agree with you that in FOTR they did it all wrong, especially with the shadow detail. When I color correct movies I never touch the black and white points unless really needed, and when these companies do, there's something that's not right.

I can only hope that PJ is not planning on doing the same change to TTT and ROTK when they eventually release them in 4K or whichever format will come next. I can even go as far as to say that if Tolkien himself saw how The Hobbit looked, he would not like it but if he saw the regraded FOTR...

In the documentaries on the bonus discs from the LOTR extended cut DVD boxes, they all explained how they tried to closely follow the books' description of colors and how everything should look. They sure have lost that respect for the author now.

Yep, PJ is certainly "coloring" his films. He's even pre-coloring make-up for processing compensation in The Hobbit movies (note the make-up applier's own skin for comparison):

The Red-brand digital cameras now are legitimately a part of it. "Red camera tends to eat color a little so we add more color", said a TH:AUJ production designer in an official blog video about 3D filming. But, if the picture is red-reduced for a general shift towards teal (requiring red make-up pre-emphasis for better flesh-tones after red reduction), then that indicates a deliberate teal-tint agenda going on here.

Good thing we're around to fix it!

Now that's very interesting.

Spaced Ranger said:

Yep, PJ is certainly "coloring" his films. He's even pre-coloring make-up for processing compensation in The Hobbit movies (note the make-up applier's own skin for comparison):

The Red-brand digital cameras now are legitimately a part of it. "Red camera tends to eat color a little so we add more color", said a TH:AUJ production designer in an official blog video about 3D filming. But, if the picture is red-reduced for a general shift towards teal (requiring red make-up pre-emphasis for better flesh-tones after red reduction), then that indicates a deliberate teal-tint agenda going on here.

Good thing we're around to fix it!

Yes, i saw the official blog video that had that bit as well months before the release of the film in the cinema but I really discovered this for myself when I started regrading this film. It made removing the teal tint a real pain in the arse.

When i removed the teal and got the whites in the clouds looking just right to my eyes, the red makeup that the dwarves were wearing really stood out, especially balin's makeup.

In the end I had to compromise and make the overall colours slightly colder than I really wanted by reducing the reds so that all the dwarves wouldn't look like they were suffering from severe sunburn throughout the whole film.

I should've included Peter Jackson's YouTube link to that 3D video blog:

THE HOBBIT, Production Diary 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sqFkd-wHKs

for those who don't have it (on DVD/Blu-ray). Generally fascinating ... specifically revealing ... from @6:15 ... "nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more".   ;)

I'm going a little off-topic here but if anyone knows the answer, it'll be you guys!

I have the UK EIV version of the extended Blu-ray trilogy and it does not include the original subtitles in the Elvish sequences. They're player generated, in the wrong place, and I suspect that they're also the wrong font. Does anyone know whether a different release (such as the US or NZ/AU versions) has the correct subtitles?

Edit: And in case anyone wants to know, US Hobbit extended Blu-ray does have the correct subtitles.

Update (2 years later!): The US LOTR set has the correct subtitles.

Asaki said:

So why are we trying to remove the green tint from The Hobbit now that we know it's supposed to be there?

FotR I can understand, but if the filmmakers intentionally set up their current film(s) to have a specific color timing...

I suppose some people like their skies blue and their clouds white, like they were in the original lotr trilogy before the remastered fotr ee blu-ray came out.

If this specific colour scheme was only in one scene, that'd be perfectly fine, in the fotr ee dvd colour grading is used differently all the time  in different scenes to create a certain distinctive feeling. It is the fact that this green tint has been plastered across the whole film irrespective of scene that bugs people the most.

Yeah, I can completely understand that some people want the colors to be "correct", even though the director chose something else.

Asaki said:

Oh, okay.

Let's color correct Pitch Black next :D

And what exactly is wrong with Pitch Black?

:P

As it is one of my favourite films, I've been looking for a re-graded FOTR EE for quite some time, and recently have been able to watch KK650's attempts to remove the awful green tint.

Let me say that I think it's a fantastic effort, and I appreciate anyone who undertakes this project.  And to my eyes, it is a definite improvement, and more pleasing viewing experience, over the existing BD image.

That said, speaking personally, this version doesn't quite get to what I'm looking for, which is something that matches the theatrical grading, or at least the grading in the theatrical BD.  With KK650's version we've lost the green tint (mostly), but seem to have traded it for blue. The result to my eyes is a colder image, especially in the snow scenes (which is fine and appropriate), but not really any closer to the the theatrical grading. We've essentially just switched one (supposedly) artistic preference for how this film should look with another.  But perhaps that was his intention, rather than actually trying to recreate the theatrical/BD grading, so these comments should be regarded as an observation, not a criticism of the work.

Again, I do believe what KK650 has done is a very definite improvement (and thanks for taking the time and effort), but that's just a personal preference on my part. For a definitive version of this amazing film that brings us closer to to the theatrical experience, I'll just have to continue to look.  

Hey Nick66,

KK650 does have another version coming soon as said here....

"A new fellowship of the ring regrade where i've taken a completely different approach to my previous release, very closely matching the image dynamics of the theatrical blu-ray and hdtv transport stream, will be coming out tomorrow. It has a lot more visible shadow detail than the previous release like the theatrical blu-ray and makes the daylight shots in Hobbiton brighter like they were on the theatrical blu-ray. Should be interesting to see what everybody thinks"

kk650 said:

Spaced Ranger said:

Yep, PJ is certainly "coloring" his films. He's even pre-coloring make-up for processing compensation in The Hobbit movies (note the make-up applier's own skin for comparison):

The Red-brand digital cameras now are legitimately a part of it. "Red camera tends to eat color a little so we add more color", said a TH:AUJ production designer in an official blog video about 3D filming. But, if the picture is red-reduced for a general shift towards teal (requiring red make-up pre-emphasis for better flesh-tones after red reduction), then that indicates a deliberate teal-tint agenda going on here.

Good thing we're around to fix it!

Yes, i saw the official blog video that had that bit as well months before the release of the film in the cinema but I really discovered this for myself when I started regrading this film. It made removing the teal tint a real pain in the arse.

When i removed the teal and got the whites in the clouds looking just right to my eyes, the red makeup that the dwarves were wearing really stood out, especially balin's makeup.

In the end I had to compromise and make the overall colours slightly colder than I really wanted by reducing the reds so that all the dwarves wouldn't look like they were suffering from severe sunburn throughout the whole film.

 Which program do you use for your re-grading? is it possible to draw/track masks for the faces like in Davinci Resolve? Maybe that would ease up the grading although of course being tedious work, but it doesn't limit your choice of environment recoloring...

You prabably know that. I'm just interested in your workflow with a BluRay as a source material.

Oh and your STAr WARS regrade thread is very interesting. Keep up the good work!

Regards

Zz

MrZz said:

kk650 said:

Spaced Ranger said:

Yep, PJ is certainly "coloring" his films. He's even pre-coloring make-up for processing compensation in The Hobbit movies (note the make-up applier's own skin for comparison):

The Red-brand digital cameras now are legitimately a part of it. "Red camera tends to eat color a little so we add more color", said a TH:AUJ production designer in an official blog video about 3D filming. But, if the picture is red-reduced for a general shift towards teal (requiring red make-up pre-emphasis for better flesh-tones after red reduction), then that indicates a deliberate teal-tint agenda going on here.

Good thing we're around to fix it!

Yes, i saw the official blog video that had that bit as well months before the release of the film in the cinema but I really discovered this for myself when I started regrading this film. It made removing the teal tint a real pain in the arse.

When i removed the teal and got the whites in the clouds looking just right to my eyes, the red makeup that the dwarves were wearing really stood out, especially balin's makeup.

In the end I had to compromise and make the overall colours slightly colder than I really wanted by reducing the reds so that all the dwarves wouldn't look like they were suffering from severe sunburn throughout the whole film.

 Which program do you use for your re-grading? is it possible to draw/track masks for the faces like in Davinci Resolve? Maybe that would ease up the grading although of course being tedious work, but it doesn't limit your choice of environment recoloring...

You prabably know that. I'm just interested in your workflow with a BluRay as a source material.

Oh and your STAr WARS regrade thread is very interesting. Keep up the good work!

Regards

Zz

I use TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5. I do not believe it can do tracking masks. It's not the most professional program out there but then again i'm not a professional colour grader, i'm very much an amateur. It can do everything I need.

Thanks, will do! :)

Here are some screencap comparisons between the official fellowship of the ring extended edition blu-ray and my latest regraded release. Let me know what you think:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/70956/

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/70958/

Shadow detail looks great and so does the color, great job kk650.

Thank you oh_riginal and DoomBot, i'm glad that you like what you're seeing!

I'm going to go ahead and start encoding the more desaturated version now to give people a choice but i'll also start uploading this one. It should be up by tomorrow morning, fingers crossed.

For those that are interested, the new regraded release of Fellowship of the Ring in now up on tehparadox. Let me know what you think. :)

Okay, just finished the new Fellowship of the Ring regrade using what i'm going to call the 'classic' settings. Here are some comparisons between the blu-ray and 'classic' settings regrade below:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71251

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71253/

And here are some comparisons between the first 'more colourful' settings regrade and the 'classic' settings regrade:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71254/

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/71255/

Guys, please let me me know your thoughts on how they look and which of the two settings you prefer. I'm personally leaning towards the classic settings myself because I suspect that the more muted look is what Peter Jackson and Andrew Lesnie were going for with this 4k remastered transfer of Fellowship of the Ring and respecting the intentions of the filmmakers is always the most important thing of all for me.

I think these two regrades are the very best I'm able to do to make this amazing film look as good as possible.

Now, onto the Star Wars Original Trilogy...

Thanks Andrea, I knew I could count on you to provide feedback! :)

I agree with you about the 'classic' settings based on those screen comparisons, they just feel more 'right' to me, don't know how else to explain it. I have to check out both on my TV, see how they both look there, see if that'll help me make up my mind up 100%.

EDIT: Hmm, I think i'll just call it 'normal' rather than 'classic', i'll leave 'classic' for the Star Wars Semi-Specialised Editions. Any other suggestion for what I could call this more muted Fellowship of the Ring version?

Well they both look great but if i were to go with just one then yeah classic or "normal"what ever you want to call it.

I had already started your colorful version but it's going slow since i'm using free download.

When might the newer version be up?

Thanks again kk650 and i'm glad to see a much higher bitrate. I'm never one who's afraid of bigger file sizes, bring it on!

Thanks for your feedback DoomBot! Looks like its currently 3 votes for the normal settings, 0 for the more colourful settings.

The normal version should be up very soon, tomorrow morning on uploaded, on netload a few hours after that. I'd just wait and download that one.

As for the very high bitrate well, the 4k remaster looks so good in terms of image quality and grain that I feel that this transfer in particular, more than most other blu-rays, really benefits from that extra bitrate. :)