Info Wanted: Best "official" color source? — Page 3

Updated post 50 added Gout comparison to show redness

Update to post 51 Gout comparion to show fade

Colours on 1992 UK video tape sort form a link with the laserdisc here:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Laser-Disc-1989-I-found-the-same-problem-in-the-1992-version-Incredible-Shrinking-Ratio/post/453040/#TopicPost453040

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Laser-Disc-1989-I-found-the-same-problem-in-the-1992-version-Incredible-Shrinking-Ratio/post/459388/#TopicPost459388

One thing to remember about all the VHS and LD sources, there was so such thing as a THX screen for home viewing. Transfers had to be made with the home video audience in mind. That audience had as many variation in color, tone, etc., as there were TVs in the world.

The only definitive color for how Star Wars looked in 1977 would be the 3 color separation timing masters if they still exist, or maybe an original interpositive. Outside of that, every print and transfer is going to be different. We can only guess which one is closest. The one great thing about a technicolor IB print is that it doesn't fade and the colors are very consistent, but it isn't the same as a regular film transfer. From the interviews about the color restoration for the 97 SE, the IB print was their guide for the colors. I have not trust that Lowry got even close when they did the digital transfer. They did the older Bond films as well and all the explosions have a pink tinge to them that aren't there in the older transfers. Because of that I find all the colors suspect in the official DVD and BR releases (except the GOUT which has other problems).


I think the best source for the original colors are the products that were made at the time that include stills from the films. Like this image of the LP. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9873/10845353_3.jpg?v=8CE040475E76D60

Without access to a definitive original source to base the color timing on, I think it is more a matter of preference than accuracy. I don't think any of the VHS or LD transfers (or the GOUT) really comes close to what it originally looked like on film.

yotsuya said:

I think the best source for the original colors are the products that were made at the time that include stills from the films. Like this image of the LP. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9873/10845353_3.jpg?v=8CE040475E76D60

Without access to a definitive original source to base the color timing on, I think it is more a matter of preference than accuracy. I don't think any of the VHS or LD transfers (or the GOUT) really comes close to what it originally looked like on film.

Hi Yotsuya, I agree the VHS and LD transfers dont really come close to the depth of 35mm. But I think some can give a more accurate "taste" of the original colours, because prints and negatives fade, by default therefore one transfer is going to be less distorted even if it can never capture the depth of colour, it can give a nearer representation.

I suspect though that those album pictures are still not close enough, here is my guess of what it would have looked like in the cinema, with further adjustment to russs15's still=

 3rd attempt:

Harmy did color-time his version to an unfaded technicolor print, and here's that shot from his version:

And here it is from mine and DJ's version of the GOUT where we have balanced the whole movie:

Though I think the technicolor prints must have been made from a different interpositive than the GOUT. (Remember that the GOUT doesn't even have the theatrical subs.)

I think the capturing the complexity of the gold colour of 3PO is where all early 80s versions will pretty much fall down. Gold seems just too rich a colour for these to render accurately (for VHS).

Two things, that image is a poor representation of what the LP images look like and that image of C3PO in the desert isn't a good example. I was looking more at the images with skin tones and the white of the blockade runner.

I'm going to have to dig out the LP and Story LP and music book and see if I can get a scan that looks right (don't hold your breath, I have to find them first - could take years at the rate I work).

yotsuya said:

Two things, that image is a poor representation of what the LP images look like and that image of C3PO in the desert isn't a good example. I was looking more at the images with skin tones and the white of the blockade runner.

I'm going to have to dig out the LP and Story LP and music book and see if I can get a scan that looks right (don't hold your breath, I have to find them first - could take years at the rate I work).

No worries these can be found via google image search

LexX said:

Those are production photos, not film captures. They aren't qualified for reference.

But I have their license right here! er.. no I don't. They can help in a round about way to see these scenes somewhat de-pinked.. but not a hard reference source, no.

frank678 said:

I think the capturing the complexity of the gold colour of 3PO is where all early 80s versions will pretty much fall down. Gold seems just too rich a colour for these to render accurately (for VHS).

Didn't Mike Verta say 3PO was more copper than gold in the original prints?

You_Too said:

frank678 said:

I think the capturing the complexity of the gold colour of 3PO is where all early 80s versions will pretty much fall down. Gold seems just too rich a colour for these to render accurately (for VHS).

Didn't Mike Verta say 3PO was more copper than gold in the original prints?

You're right I revised my previous image since looking at it again

I would never bet against what Mike Verta said. To me the answer is coppery gold, but much more coppery than I thought- now I look at it Because hes reflective like a mirror I guess he would appear lighter outside in daylight from when inside.

It seems to be the gold glassy highlights would be the first to fade when a print starts fading because they are the most delicate. Then copper, then he would start looking yellow...?

>

By the way, did anyone ever contact this guy? http://johnwairephoto.com/blog/2010/07/21/the-end-of-an-era/

He's obviously a professional photographer, and photographers always pick out the best shots of hundreds, and I bet some of those must have been of the screen itself. I just guess he didn't post any shots of the screen because of copyright reasons. But maybe if somebody explains how valuable they would be to the community and restoration projects he could share them anonymously?

msycamore said:

Also, the IP used for creating the SWE (Technidisc) and THX video releases seems to share certain damage/dirt spots with the IB Technicolor prints based on screenshots and footage I've seen, so it's not impossible that they were made from the same IP, but then they would need to include the infamous damage in the Tantive-corridor, would be interesting to know if it was present on those prints as well.

 

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=rm4axh&s=6

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4pvais&s=6

The PAL collectors widescreen VHS can be pushed to resemble the IB Technicolor print. Therefore this could be from the same IP. The Technidisc seems to have much more pink damage in the homestead burning scene, whereas the PAL VHS does not. Which would suggest its different prints in different states of repair.  

You_Too said:

By the way, did anyone ever contact this guy? http://johnwairephoto.com/blog/2010/07/21/the-end-of-an-era/

He's obviously a professional photographer, and photographers always pick out the best shots of hundreds, and I bet some of those must have been of the screen itself. I just guess he didn't post any shots of the screen because of copyright reasons. But maybe if somebody explains how valuable they would be to the community and restoration projects he could share them anonymously?

 If anyone is reading this in the wings who's toying with the idea of doing a restoration I'd also advise to save all the media from the baltimore screening that is online. The 8mm Krieg der Sterne clip got taken down from youtube after I had linked it at the beginning of this thread, and Save Star Wars looks like its been hit by a virus according to google. I'd say archive this stuff as a precaution if you have any plans to come back to it later in the future.

Here's some raw frames from the PAL 1982 VHS, even though its very desaturated compared to GOUT it hints at more blue being present originally than GOUT suggests in this sequence, I will post up some more examples of scenes with these hints of blue later.