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Info: The films of Sergio Leone - The best available versions... — Page 2

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It's the 251 minute cut, same as the Italian BD.

It is missing the further 18 minutes needed for the final cut that weren't incorporated because of issues with rights that are being worked on by the film foundation.

So WB can't really call it a Directors cut, but they still do.

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nirbateman said:

It is missing the further 18 minutes needed for the final cut that weren't incorporated because of issues with rights that are being worked on by the film foundation.

So instead of waiting till the final 18mins were in hand, they impatiently release a new cut that's in no man's land...

If nothing else, this is just creating more market confusion. Imagine when (if) the real director's cut get's released. How are they going to tell consumers that this is more of a director's cut then the one they already own?

Though whatever, que sera, sera.

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Has anyone seen the A Fistful of Dollars Japanese Blu-Ray by NBCUniversal? From what I've heard, it may be the best available version thus far. It uses the stellar Italian restoration that debuted on RHV's BD. Furthermore, it has the 5.1 and the mono tracks in DTS-HD. 

Additionally, for what it's worth, I respectfully disagree with the assessments of the German BDs as the best available versions.

Universum's encode of A Fistful of Dollars, to my eyes, looks noticeably worse than RHV's, which is also AVC and of a comparable bitrate (2700kbps to the German's 29995kbps). As you can see in this caps-a-holic comparison, the German BD is redder and darker, which results in the slight loss of detail. The reddishness skews the flesh tones rather than making them look more accurate. 

Also, I think Universum made the wrong choice to use the MGM master for For a Few Dollars More. While I acquiesce to the fact that the Mondo looks to have had some slight grain-reduction, the very noticeable sharpening on the MGM master has far more damaging effects on the video. I'm not convinced that all the grain is natural; it looks mixed with video noise. Also, there are weird film artifacts; the Mondo looks like the source was cleaned more thoroughly before scanning. Overall, the MGM master seems to be a pretty dated scan that winds up looking worse than the Italian one. The color timing is what really gets me: it's far less vibrant and leans towards blue, as if someone tried "normalizing"/"homogenizing" the look for home video. Take a look at the whites in this comparison, keeping in mind that they're supposed to be lit by warm lamps, not flourescents. 

Of course, as stated in the OP, both of these have the opening titles in German... 

As for the rest of the movies, the US BD of Duck You Sucker is terrible. It's from a clearly outdated master with another "homogenized" color palette. The fan preservations of Once Upon a Time in the West and Once Upon a Time in America are truly a sight to hear and behold. The former's lossless mono from the LD sounds fantastic, and I'm glad to see the movie rightfully presented without the Harmonica Rising sequence. kk650's regrade really rights a lot of wrongs, making a previously unwatchable master something decent. Only when watching this was I able to appreciate the detail that the restoration had. 

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I really need to get on board with these. From what I've heard the German FAFDM used MGM's transfer but did so without the extra processing and DNR MGM applied so that specks, dirt and grain are more visible.

Also does anyone have the new German double feature Blu for Fistful and FAFDM? I'm wondering if it is also region free.

I thought I remembered there was a regrade of OUATIA, but when was OUTITW done?

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He released a regrade of OUATITW March last year. I see there is a version 2 too.

Also I don't believe his version includes the original mono?

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Not quite correct anymore, I believe (some of) the updated BRs of TGTBATU have the original mono.

Did anybody have a look at the Italian version of OUATITW on whether this also contains the errors?

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captainsolo said:

From what I've heard the German FAFDM used MGM's transfer but did so without the extra processing and DNR MGM applied so that specks, dirt and grain are more visible.

This is true, yet I still stand by my assessment that the IT BD looks better overall than the DE BD. The MGM master, even with the extra processing taken off, just looks terrible to my eyes. 

That said, the IT does not have English audio. Though, both the 5.1 and mono have been synced to it, the latter by a member of this forum. 

NeonBible said:

Also I don't believe his version includes the original mono?

 jimbotron235's release does include the original mono thankfully :) 

His own words: 

jimbotron235 said:

The edit is completed.

Changes made:

  •     Removed opening restoration credit
  •     Removed Harmonica recovering from gunshot
  •     Restored original Finale music (from OST), removing the spliced-in Cheyenne theme.  The result is pretty seamless.  There are no foley effects with the restored music.  Having listened to it several times, I don't miss them.


Video: 1920x816 AVC @ 18Mbps

Audio:

  •     5.1 FLAC (Sourced from Blu-ray DTS-HD mix)
  •     PCM 1.0 Mono (sourced from Laserdisc, provided by NeonBible and Lil Brutto) (44.1Khz 705Kbps) This was from the "Theatrical" version so I needed to splice in about 30 seconds from the "Restored" version.
  •     DD 1.0 Mono (sourced from Blu-ray) (originally 112Kbps 48Khz)


Length: 2:44:03

Size: 23.8GB

The 5.1 mix is FLAC instead of the original DTS-HD because Premiere doesn't output to DTS/Dolby.  The BD mono is expanded to PCM for the same reason.

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The Aluminum Falcon said:

captainsolo said:

From what I've heard the German FAFDM used MGM's transfer but did so without the extra processing and DNR MGM applied so that specks, dirt and grain are more visible.

This is true, yet I still stand by my assessment that the IT BD looks better overall than the DE BD. The MGM master, even with the extra processing taken off, just looks terrible to my eyes. 

That said, the IT does not have English audio. Though, both the 5.1 and mono have been synced to it, the latter by a member of this forum.

I would agree. The IT has much better colors and looks more natural, even if it is softer. The German/MGM transfer has worse colors and a ton of a lot of sharpening and edge enhancement.

The major difference between the German and MGM version is that the MGM has an auto dirt remover applied. Other than that they look the same. I don't think the MGM has any noticeable waxy-style DNR applied to it compared with the DE.

Who synced the mono to the IT? I would love to get that.

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For all those interested, i've just put up the regraded Once Upon a Time in the West V2 release (without Harmonica rising scene) I created on myspleen.

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There was a 4K restoration of Fistful shown at Cannes a year ago, Tarantino was whining about how it wasn't film. I suppose that with it and GBU having been done in 4K, one for FAFDM might be forthcoming. Though with the current state of the physical media market, it's not likely forthcoming. I'm assuming that the German and Italian discs are Region B?

Sound: None of the BD's offer the original English mono at all, not even in lossy AC3. the only way to get the original English mono is from the LD synched by TheHutt.

I hear that once they did the individual release of GBU, they fixed the mono and had the original for the original scenes and the downmix for the new scenes. I must admit, it's a nice gesture for them to fix it, even if it shouldn't have happened at all.

Sound: While I commend Paramount for including the original mono soundtrack (Albeit in Lossy AC3), the music during the end credits is still wrong.

Does the old VHS or DVD release have the proper music? What should it be? It sounds like the Paramount disc will do for now.

Both use the same master, but the Spanish BD uses the inferior MPEG2 codec and is at 24 FPS rather than 23.976

Forgive my ignorance, but what does this mean?

So as far as the old DVDs go, did the old "Sergio Leone Anthology" release retain the mono except for GBU? Does the old BGU DVD retain the proper mono? Did the DYS DVD have the mono, or a downmix? Which European releases retain the extras, most of the ones on the MGM releases, especially the Frayling commentaries.

PS This is totally the wrong place to ask, but I don't want to open another thread, whatever happened with the 4K Texas Chain Saw Massacre Blu-ray? Was there any truth to the mono being a downmix?

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Mike O said:

I'm assuming that the German and Italian discs are Region B?

There's no need to assume.  Blu-Ray.com gives you that info plus a whole lot more.

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Going back to the OP, has anyone else made the "Top Choice" edits for FOD and FAFDM?  I bought the German and US BDs for each and made the appropriate edits:

FOD:

  • Removed embarrassing Tobis distributor title
  • Replaced German titles with English titles - adjusting the faded color of the latter so the reds matched
  • Did not replace ALL titles of the German version, such as the co-stars which listed their full names in the German version (such as Siegfried Rupp instead of S. Rupp)
  • Used US title card for Technicolor/Techniscope.  The German one is too cropped on the left.
  • Ending still includes the Italian "FINE".  The equivalent shot from the US Blu-ray is too ugly to use.
  • Does not include MGM logo - film begins and ends with restoration credits
  • English DTS-HD MA Mono only.  I didn't include the 5.1 because I didn't see the point.

FAFDM:

  • Removed Tobis distributor title
  • Replaced German intro card about bounty killers with English intro card
  • English DTS-HD MA Mono

I have a Mondo BD coming in the mail in the next week or so.  I plan on editing it as well to insert in the English titles and text from the US remaster, and sync it to TheHutt's mono mix.

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Looking forward to seeing your edits, jimbotron.

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@ jimbotron235

Not yet, but as soon as you release your projects, it will be edited accordingly.

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KK your edit is wrong, for the platform scene. The scene should segue from Bronson falling down to the gunshot for the hunt. No wheel. That's how it was in the original cut.

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Stamper said:

KK your edit is wrong, for the platform scene. The scene should segue from Bronson falling down to the gunshot for the hunt. No wheel. That's how it was in the original cut.

I made the same scene removal but before making the cut, I inquired on here about the wheel shot because I wasn't sure.  I assumed it was part of the original cut too.  However, it was confirmed that the wheel was not part of the original cut, so I removed it.  Discussed here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Once-Upon-a-Time-in-the-West-LD-PCM-Preservation/topic/16248/

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jimbotron235 said:

Going back to the OP, has anyone else made the "Top Choice" edits for FOD and FAFDM?  I bought the German and US BDs for each and made the appropriate edits:

FOD:

  • Removed embarrassing Tobis distributor title
  • Replaced German titles with English titles - adjusting the faded color of the latter so the reds matched
  • Did not replace ALL titles of the German version, such as the co-stars which listed their full names in the German version (such as Siegfried Rupp instead of S. Rupp)
  • Used US title card for Technicolor/Techniscope.  The German one is too cropped on the left.
  • Ending still includes the Italian "FINE".  The equivalent shot from the US Blu-ray is too ugly to use.
  • Does not include MGM logo - film begins and ends with restoration credits
  • English DTS-HD MA Mono only.  I didn't include the 5.1 because I didn't see the point.

FAFDM:

  • Removed Tobis distributor title
  • Replaced German intro card about bounty killers with English intro card
  • English DTS-HD MA Mono

I have a Mondo BD coming in the mail in the next week or so.  I plan on editing it as well to insert in the English titles and text from the US remaster, and sync it to TheHutt's mono mix.

Done!  PM for details.

While I did buy the Mondo version and got synced it to TheHutt's mono mix, I decided to stick with the (superior) original Italian titles.

After watching that version, I can't watch the US remaster again, even a regraded version.  Sure there's more fine detail, but it's not worth the wacky color.  Way too saturated, skies are teal, and blacks look bad.  Whether it should or should not look like that, the Italian remaster looks natural, and fits in better with the FOD remaster.  FOFDM still looks rough, but it too looks natural.

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I tried to order Duck, you Sucker from Amazon.it, but the disc was a Spanish version with 198 Kpbs audio instead of the HD 2.0 track it was supposed to have. Is that release now OOP? Since it’s open, I bet I wasted $50 without doing my research and Amazon won’t take a return 😦.

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Bewy said:

Still available, got mine from amazon.fr :3

Thank you. Shame about the money I wasted on the other release, but hey, that’s what I get for not doing my research.

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