logo Sign In

Info: Superman II Donner, and III & IV extended edits

Author
Date
Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

So with the release of all these Supes goodies, esp. deleted scenes for III and IV, any plans for Extended edits of these flicks? IV has always been the black sheep (although the theatrical version isn’t the worst movie in the world, and still had more spirit than the largely soulless rehash of Returns).

Also, it seems that although the long-awaited Supes II Donner cut is finally here, from what I’ve read, there are still things missing from the TV versions, with some changes made based on discarding Lester’s work, even though some of Lester’s footage was as originally scripted. Specifically, the Donner ending, and original plans to apparently have part I be a sort of cliffhanger, with the new Donner version sort of garbling some of it together, and repeating some things from I.

We don't have enough road to get up to 88.
Author
Time
Post link
I think to make Superman II work well would be to have the Donner and Lester cuts edited together. A lot of the angles and fight scenes in Donner's cut are great, but Donners ending was a let down. I think Lester's ending made more sense and though I'm not American, I enjoyed the patriotic ending.
Author
Time
Post link
Yes, that would probably be the best version of II-- a hybrid.

And I don't think you have to be American to enjoy a patriotic scene. It was an uplifting ending!
We don't have enough road to get up to 88.
Author
Time
Post link

I would like to see a fan editor tackle Superman 2 and make some sort of hybrid, I really enjoyed the Donner cut but there was a few things when I was watching it, I missed from the Lester cut. and feel would look good in a hybrid of the two and maybe including some of the deleted scenes on the disc as well.
I would also like to see extended editions of Superman 3 & 4 I know they arent the greatest films, but it would be interesting to see them with the deleted scenes added.
Author
Time
Post link
From what I saw of the deleted scenes though, they looked like uncleaned and unusable. Mind you I haven't look at all of them. There's enough stuff in the 14 disc set to keep you entertained for hours.
Author
Time
Post link
Superman is right up there with my "big three": Star Wars, Star Trek, and Superman. I am equally obsessive about all 3.

I haven't gotten the Ultimate Collection yet, but when I do I will certainly want to be a part of any fan effort to make an "Ultimate Version" of Superman II. I'm very happy to have finally gotten the best possible Donner version we were ever going to get, but from what I've read about the new cut it doesn't quite hold up. And don't get me started on the RECYCLED ENDING. May the fan edits begin...
Author
Time
Post link
All the Deleted Scenes on the DVD and HD DVD are uncleaned. They look fugly compared to the actual movie. The same applies to the other superman films. The scene where Non kils the kid in SII LC is in the You will believe Documentary on disc 13 of the ultimate set. It is cleaned up to DVD quality (Non-Anamorphic) but it has Salkind talking in the beginning of the clip. Really creepy...BUT HE WAS JUST A BOY! NOW HE WILL NEVER BE A MAN!
Author
Time
Post link
I'd cut straight from the balcony scene to the diner scene and let the movie finish from there. Why does Lois need to forget, anyway? Superman should trust her, like he says he does. She doesn't need to be made to forget, and I was never a fan of Lester's ending. But that's my opinion.

And there's some clunky editing between Supes/Lois, Luthor, and the Kryptonians in the late beginning/early middle, I think, that should be addressed. But other than that, fantastic edit, lightyears better than the theatrical version. I could care less about III and IV. Make it a two-part epic.

And *maybe* put in the arctic police scene. Maybe.
Author
Time
Post link
Yes, what is the condition of the Arctic Police scene? If it's cleaned up to be on par with the rest of the film then that would be a definite addition to give closer to Luthor and the villains. What I don't understand is Donner shot this footage, why was it not included? With Superman destroying the Fortress, its even more imperative we see that Lex, Zod, Ursa, and Non are not still in there when he does. On that note, why is the destruction of the Fortress even necessary? I know I have a lot to say for someone who hasn't actually seen the Donner Cut yet, but I've been keeping up with the reports.
Author
Time
Post link
There's no reason for the Fortress anymore - his father is gone. The Arctic Police scene *does* contain one small plothole(?) - Lex menitons "Smallville," which he would not know about in the film universe as he doesn't know Superman is Clark Kent. But that can be cut. And I dunno of the condition, I wasn't paying a hell of a lot of attention when I saw it.

There's also an alternate getaway scene that's less campy than the balloon one, but I like the balloon scene, personally.
Author
Time
Post link
Yeah I am familiar with the scene and the quote "The Smallville Smasher."

I can sort of understand why Superman would destroy the Fortress, now that both Jor-El is gone and Lex and the Kryptonians know where it is, but in the "logic" of the Donner Cut, if he's going to reverse time anyway, what's the point?
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Yes, what is the condition of the Arctic Police scene?


The deleted scenes on the donner cut aren't that bad. The levels need to be adjusted, but they're a heck of a lot better than the RIC cut.

Working on: Superman: Son of Jorel

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Yeah I am familiar with the scene and the quote "The Smallville Smasher."

I can sort of understand why Superman would destroy the Fortress, now that both Jor-El is gone and Lex and the Kryptonians know where it is, but in the "logic" of the Donner Cut, if he's going to reverse time anyway, what's the point?


I thought that the reason he destroyed it, was because Lex and the Kryptonian villains know that it contains a chamber which can change Kryptonian people with superstrenght on earth into normal humans, taking away their power. Something Lex would be very interested in.

Same Make. Same Model. New Mission.

Author
Time
Post link
The problem (and you'll understand once you've seen the "Donner Cut") is that Superman reverses time after destroying the Fortress, which means it's back together when he's done. The 'rewind' gimmick bugs me even more here than it did at the end of I. I mean, basically, he could have reversed time at any point in the film-- why wait til the end?

What makes the time-travel bit just bearable in I is that it works emotionally, if not logically. Lois is DEAD, and an enraged, grieving Superman draws on some primal reservoir of superpower we're not sure he knew he had. There's no such motivation in the "Donner Cut", which I'm continuing to state in quotation marks because it's really the Michael Thau Cut.

On top of all this, we're lacking an explanation of how I should end in order to lead into the new edit-- does Superman just turn back time after every adventure? I guess the true solution would be to somehow cut I and II together into a single film (as originally originally intended), drawing from both Donner and Lester footage.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: strangelove

On top of all this, we're lacking an explanation of how I should end in order to lead into the new edit-- does Superman just turn back time after every adventure? I guess the true solution would be to somehow cut I and II together into a single film (as originally originally intended), drawing from both Donner and Lester footage.


Unless someone can recreate something closer to what was intended via an original old script or something, it seems like it would be most efficient to focus on the elements used for II and merge the 2 versions. Since the time travel bit was used in I, its redundancy in II could be eliminated, along with the aforementioned bagging of the "Super kiss" bit as well. To make a single film, the best way to keep the time travel would be to hack it from the end of I, and move it to somewhere where it wouldn't be too close to the end of the II story. I don't know. My brain hurts now...
We don't have enough road to get up to 88.
Author
Time
Post link
I think that Jor El has surivived in some crystlas, as seen in SUPERMAN RETURNS, but not in an interactive way. Not the kind that saved him in the Donner Cut, at least. Anyway, apart from not wanting to see the Fortress destroyed in ANY fan-edit, I would be in favor of a fan edit that combined the two. Provided of course, the main movie remains the Donner Cut.

Because I think there is material in Lester Cut and Superman III and IV, to make one wholly different picture. What if we somehow used the Eiffel tower scenes of SUPERMAN II, and the Evil Superman scenes form SUPERMAN III, along with the rescue of that power plant in SUPERMAN III (you know, where Jimmy Olsen gets hurt - I haven't seen the movie for quite a while, sorry), and integrated them into a new SUPERMAN IV, on which we would also use the film's deleted scenes. My intent here, is to create the ultimate SUPERMAN III, which could partially, in SR retrospect, explain his leaving. Wouldn't it be great to use the above elements and create one better film? I mean, SUPERMAN IV would need work on its own - CGI to improved some of the film's devastating SFX, and some clever storyline to combine them all.

Anyway, what do you think of this admitedly crazy idea?

Well?
My life is really... Complex!

Batman Returns
Author
Time
Post link
What makes the time-travel bit just bearable in I is that it works emotionally, if not logically. Lois is DEAD, and an enraged, grieving Superman draws on some primal reservoir of superpower we're not sure he knew he had.

Yes. Exactly. You are so caught up in the moment and invested in Superman's emotions that the old reliable deus ex machina doesn't bother you at all. To COPY AND PASTE this into Donner's II, negating the ENTIRE FILM, is just plain silly. In I, it was a matter of minutes. In II, it's a number of days!

And even if you don't take S:TM and SR into consideration, the time reversal is a plothole because of the Diner. In Lester's II, the bully beats up Clark, who returns at the end to teach him a lesson. "Oh, I've been...working out." Great moment. But in Donner's II, no one should know who Clark is, as those events never happened.

Batman Beyond: It would be interesting to see what could be cobbled together from the remaining movies in an effort to make a totally new one. For now though I think our efforts should be focused on getting Superman II right, something the professional editors couldn't seem to do.
Author
Time
Post link
As I said before.

Why is it an issue?

Just cut the turning-back-time altogether. The Arctic Police take Lex and the Kryptonians away, he destroys the Fortress, he drops Lois off at her house, he goes and gets revenge on the bully, movie over. Why does Lois need to forget, especially if we're now treating these as a simple two-part epic rather than a series with further sequels?
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
What makes the time-travel bit just bearable in I is that it works emotionally, if not logically. Lois is DEAD, and an enraged, grieving Superman draws on some primal reservoir of superpower we're not sure he knew he had.

Yes. Exactly. You are so caught up in the moment and invested in Superman's emotions that the old reliable deus ex machina doesn't bother you at all. To COPY AND PASTE this into Donner's II, negating the ENTIRE FILM, is just plain silly. In I, it was a matter of minutes. In II, it's a number of days!

And even if you don't take S:TM and SR into consideration, the time reversal is a plothole because of the Diner. In Lester's II, the bully beats up Clark, who returns at the end to teach him a lesson. "Oh, I've been...working out." Great moment. But in Donner's II, no one should know who Clark is, as those events never happened.

Batman Beyond: It would be interesting to see what could be cobbled together from the remaining movies in an effort to make a totally new one. For now though I think our efforts should be focused on getting Superman II right, something the professional editors couldn't seem to do.

Thanks for your kind words. I made this suggestion again in the past, but no one commented.

I believe that, for a definitive SUPERMAN II, the Donner Cut should be the basis - the Lester cut's Eiffel tower sub-plot shouldn't be used, and for reasons that I have explained (to combine with III and IV for a new film alltogether) above. So, maybe enhance Donner's cut with Lester material - like the deleted scene where Ursa kills that little boy. And generally, elements that should have been in the final cut.

In the end, I'd prefer to watch the Donner cut, with Lester elements here and there, and Lester's ending (amnesia kiss), so that it can at least sit well with SR itself.

What do you say?
My life is really... Complex!

Batman Returns
Author
Time
Post link
It's already on the drawing board, folks. Plus more great stuff.

I am the BASF of the film community. I don’t make the films you watch. I make the films you watch better.

Author
Time
Post link
The Paris sequence should stay, or another Superman-in-action sequence should be substituted for the opening of an ideal II. Otherwise Superman doesn't appear in his own movie (in full costume, anyway) until Niagara Falls. Not counting the 'previously on...' sequence of course.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ChainsawAsh
As I said before.

Why is it an issue?

Just cut the turning-back-time altogether. The Arctic Police take Lex and the Kryptonians away, he destroys the Fortress, he drops Lois off at her house, he goes and gets revenge on the bully, movie over. Why does Lois need to forget, especially if we're now treating these as a simple two-part epic rather than a series with further sequels?
I haven't seen the Donner Cut, but from the problems of the ending I've heard, letting her remember seemed like an ideal solution to me so I agree.
Author
Time
Post link
I just watched my dvd of the Donner Cut....and I'm blown away. As much as I loved the RIC version, this is pretty much the closest to the definitive version of Superman II to me.....


EXCEPT for the ending. I loath the amnesia kiss ending of the Lester cut, but the fact that he returns to the diner is very bothersome. I really like the "return to the diner" sequence, but with the "let's spin the world around again" part, it's out of place and makes no sense...

But I personally do not accept that shitty amneisa kiss.... I haven't since i read an issue of Comic Scene that explained in detail the Donner cut of Superman II back in the late 80s. As much as "return to the diner" doesn't work, I'll keep it like it is, just for a version that doesn't have that shitty amnesia kiss crap.

As for the fact that Supes isn't in it until Niagra Falls....Batman isn't in Batman Begins for a while too (forget the time in the movie, but it's pretty long into it).

I will see who does what of the fanedits and see what is on the up and up and will probably grab a couple that I like.

I've got better things to do tonight than die! - Springer, Transformers the Movie

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
It's already on the drawing board, folks. Plus more great stuff.

Good to see you're "on the case," ADM. I would also like to point out I am a frequent lurker at the Superman Cinema Boards (although I've never joined) and I see you've expanded over to that forum. That place certainly has a lot of character, no?

Without responing to anyone in particular, there are a few things to consider before setting out on a "Superman II: Ultimate Edition." What I would like to see happen is while also making it a respectful sequel to S:TM, I'd also like to see it be able to tie into Superman Returns. Unfortunately Bryan Singer played fast and loose with the continuity, with things like Lex knowing about the Fortress and Lois' son assumably tieing-in to Superman II, but not quite. For example, when Lex activates the Fortress Kitty even comments on how he "acts like he's been there before." Yes, in Superman II. However when the Jor-El recording begins, Lex is apparently surprised that the hologram "thinks [I'm] his son." This is inconsistent, obviously. Then there is Jason White. We can all assume he was conceived in Superman II, as that is when Clark and Lois were intimate. However Singer seems to imply this occured in S:TM with the mention of the "I Spent The Night With Superman" article. That implication aside, assuming Jason was indeed conceived in SII, then wouldn't Lois have no idea why she is pregnant (seeing that Clark erased her memory)?

Ironically, this apparent inconsistency finally allowed me to come to terms with the "Superkiss" which I for so long thought was ridiculous. The way I see it now is that the Superkiss only erased Lois' memory of Superman=Clark Kent. We don't know how that powers works, so who are we to say that's not what happened? Don't ask me to explain it, but it is the only way to reconcile these inconsistencies.

Also, if possible, I think it would be great to include the green "master crystal" from I and II in SR. This could be achieved by coloring the crystal Lex uses green, and in fact would make the plot make more sense as that was the only crystal with the power to create land anyway. The rest were merely data crystals. I think it's a shame that Singer decided to do away with it because today's audiences aren't intelligent enough to tell the difference between that and Kryptonite.