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Info: Star Wars - The Lost Cut is not exactly what you think it is.... — Page 2

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pittrek said:

I have absolutely no proof for this so feel free to ignore this post, but the bootleg version I used to watch on my VCR in the early 90’s was a bit different. During the chasm jump Luke first missed, then Leia kissed him, then he tried again, this time he made it and Leia kissed him again, “for luck”. I remember thinking it’s funny what a young guy can do when he’s “properly motivated”. The second difference was during the meeting before the Death Star attack. After the wamp rats comment Luke and the pilot next to him shook hands and introduced themselves. And I’m pretty sure the guy introduced himself as “Wedge”, and I was pretty confused that there are 2 different pilots named Wedge. The third and last change I remember was the third Biggs scene right before they go inside the ships. I was very confused when back in 1997 I found online a list of SE changes and this scene was listed there - to me, it was always a part of the movie. I actually had a feeling that it originally was a bit longer.

The tape doesn’t exist anymore, I replaced it with the first official VHS tapes when they were released here and later with the SE tapes, so I have absolutely no proof that these are something else than messed up memories, but if you want a rumour list, here are mine.

Ben Burt has said that the missed throw was never shot, and he never did sound effects for it (he was asked just last week at a conference).

People often believe they saw this, but there is simply no way. I have looked at almost every conceivable version of the scene on the original film releases, the VHD, the VHS, The LD, the CED, the Fox original PAL test LDs, the bootleg in cinema recordings, the U-Matic tapes from the original HBO broadcasts, the Derran Super8 release, the other Super8 release with the original crawl, the armed forces 16mm release. In all cases there is no sign of a splice or even a place where a splice would be.
When I ask people whose memories are ‘crystal clear’ on this scene, and get them to PM me how the scene played out (i.e. exactly the scene in order, the throw, then what. Did it cut to a close-up of the hook missing, or was it a wide shot, was there a reaction shot from Luke or not, did you see the hook fall into the abyss or not, did you see luke re-spool the rope, or did he press a button and have it retract, did Leia react, how long did this all take etc.) funnily enough, everyone’s “Storyboard” of the sequence of events is radically different.
If I ask in an open forum, and someone posts a sequence of events, then funnily enough, everyone remembers that exact sequence occurring.

I’ve spoken to editors and actors over the years, as well as people in duplication, and now (via proxy) asked Ben Burtt, and in every case, they say it never happened, and that the extended Tattoine scenes absolutely didn’t happen, after the extremely rough cut of it was put together as a daily to placate Coppola, when they watched it, with no score, sound FX and optical FX not done, they all hated it, and that was the last time that was ever seen. The visual effects, scoring and sound effects didn’t proceed any further, and no even vaguely high quality version was ever made. (If they had done a release, the credits would have had to have been re-done to include Koo Stark).
People do have memories of seeing this, but people also have memories of an entire film that never existed.(https://www.thisisinsider.com/does-the-movie-shazaam-exist-2016-12)

If someone ever comes forward with a bootleg, I’ll put on a stormtrooper suit and dance to “Sorry” by Justin Bieber*

Memory is a horrible thing, it seems so very real, I had a memory of a line being in Star Wars that never was, (it was in the comics, which though I don’t remember reading them, it’s probably where I picked it up), but the early Biggs scene, and the throw-and-miss I can see no evidence for ever being seen in public, and an emormous amount of evidence against it.

[*This is a genuine promise. I’d love to be wrong, and will absolutely strut my Stormtrooper stuff if I am]

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 (Edited)

So the Biggs scenes were gone pretty early on… It’s very much part of the story but I can see the drag on it.

The first part of the biggs thread would work pretty well with the inclusion of the escape pod crashing. The problem is it’s not seen as the gag it was meant to be and taken on face value and not as toungue in cheek as it would have been.

The point was as luke ran up the Stairs he failed to see the escape pod in the sky coming down for crash landing. Then when he get’s his mates out of the bar they have all missed the action on their door step and comment how boring what he has spotted is. 😃.

The second part of the Biggs scene could have been cut down and truncated we will never know.

Either way most things I am finding are mostly remnants of another version a pre-release cut that carried over a few things and covered up numerous others but it’s all very much small stuff but the parts of it that hurt the film are simply moving a shot from where it is meant to go to cover what they did not have. This is really how it unfolds and when you spot a point at which this occurs you will most definitely find a discrepancy in the sound mix either for synch issues or some missing sound. The soundmix is a bit of a window in to the pre-release version that never was. But there does also seem to be a bit of video spices missing or splices that are in the wrong order also.

I am heading in to busy season so not much time to look at stuff now.

I have come to a complete solution for Escape from Mos eisley.

I have a rough cut for the opening up until Vader Strangles Antilles. I will share the rough cut if there is interest as I am running out of time to work on stuff but it is an eye opening even at the point I have it. So shout if you would like to see the conclusion.

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 (Edited)

I have just figured out a few things about the Tantive shoot-out, I will put this together to show this in video form at some point but I feel I have finally cracked open the possibilities of getting this opening chronologically correct sequentially.

Here is the report.

  1. As mentioned before previously missing Splice between Star Destroyer and Tantive exterior Explosion.

  2. From the exterior explosion we cut straight to the second version of 3P0 & R2-D2 in the corridor and straight to the dialogue about “they shot down the main reactor”

  3. The troops Running are moved to after this dialogue about the main reactor rather than before. Joining up with them taking their positions at the airlock.

  4. The shot of the airlock troops from the second corridor shootout is moved and flipped to the first shootout and comes before anyone else get’s shot.

  5. Instead of the dissolve we see the 3 Rebel troops running (From first corridor battle) and being shot at in the
    next corridor as retreating and segway into the corridor with 3P0 and R2-D2

  6. Replacing the Flipped (and now moved in the timeline) shot of the troops from the airlock corridor we insert the shot at the end of the sequence of the 2 troops who run and turn and fire which lines up with the Storm trooper being hit. But it is spliced at the point at which the trooper fires.

  7. Some left overs of the 2 Rebel troops firing are used at the end after 3P0 and R2-D2 make it across the corridor and the storm troopers turning the corner firing.

  • The start of the shot of the troops turning the corner firing might be an alternate take or cut away for the Rebel Trooper shot in front of 3P0 & R2-D2

It is finally solved!

Conclusion = Too much footage used and placed in the wrong order. And if there was not “Too much footage” used it would never be fixable like Empire Strikes Back Cloud City Shoot out so for this I am very grateful 😃

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There is nothing solved, and the conclusion is: what you are seeing or hearing is just the final result of general editing. It has nothing to do with the Lost Cut.

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 (Edited)

The battle in the corridors was storyboarded choreographed and it can make sense if put in the correct order.

I have only cut this together roughly because I will need to look at the soundmix more closely and it is something i might be able to do later today.

How it appears in the film at this time and the result of some edits that were made it no longer makes sense.

It is not anything particularly major but seeing the action flow as it was choreographed or planned is important. A lot of work went into filming this part no doubt but this work once in the edit suite was muddled up.

  1. My main Goal here is to identify soundmix discrepencies that work with other fottage laid over the soundmix.

  2. Putting the footage in the correct order

  3. Is there a bit of cut music here also?

The Sound mix was not revised in a lot of cases to accommodate many shuffled shots for what ever reason this shuffling of footage actually happened is anyones guess but it will only ever work the way it was meant to work.

Sometimes the footage with the sound move together.

Sometimes only the footage moves retaining the sound mix with alternate footage.

Sometimes the soundmix is repeated in part to allow for an edit as there was no extra soundmix to use.

Sometimes footage is genuinely missing a Splice point and a cut between another shot or edit is missed.

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Roobyoo said:

There is nothing solved, and the conclusion is: what you are seeing or hearing is just the final result of general editing. It has nothing to do with the Lost Cut.

This

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I’m intrigued…but I don’t understand how you’ve arrived at these cuts…?

I know it would take a lot more work, but if you could do a second video with some narration explaining each cut you’ve made and why you think it originally played out this way…that would certainly be helpful. My 2 cents.

YouTubers!
Attack of the Clones | Alternate Timeline Edit
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/SSWRs-Attack-of-the-Clones-Alternate-Timeline-Edit/id/66888
My OLD Return of the Jedi thread. Be gentle.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ROTJ-Fan-O-Matic-3-new-clips/id/7919

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 (Edited)

I have tried to consider the sound vs the video and consolidate basically and also put it in the correct order.

There are 2 points at which there are discrepencies.

In the first cortidor battle there is a whizz sound that does not exactly time with a person being shot. It may mean 2 shots are in the wrong order but it is not massively noticeable. Or potentially a splice is missing.

The second is R2-D2 jump cut in the corridor as he moves off those missing frames would realign the video and audio so although I am in synch up to that moment I am not after the jump cut. The original is out of synch when R2 wheels hit the floor.

Best thing to do is download and watch in slow motion and see if you can see or hear a discrepency but for the most part I think i got it working pretty much as choreographed adhearing to the Sound as best I could.

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Ronster said:

I have tried to consider the sound vs the video and consolidate basically and also put it in the correct order.

There are 2 points at which there are discrepencies.

In the first cortidor battle there is a whizz sound that does not exactly time with a person being shot. It may mean 2 shots are in the wrong order but it is not massively noticeable. Or potentially a splice is missing.

The second is R2-D2 jump cut in the corridor as he moves off those missing frames would realign the video and audio so although I am in synch up to that moment I am not after the jump cut. The original is out of synch when R2 wheels hit the floor.

Best thing to do is download and watch in slow motion and see if you can see or hear a discrepency but for the most part I think i got it working pretty much as choreographed adhearing to the Sound as best I could.

Interesting. You don’t think that these are simply errors when sound mixing?

This reminds me of something that has bugged me for years (which Adywan fixed): The tusken music that gets chopped up as they run and hop onto the banthas. What do you suppose happened here?

YouTubers!
Attack of the Clones | Alternate Timeline Edit
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/SSWRs-Attack-of-the-Clones-Alternate-Timeline-Edit/id/66888
My OLD Return of the Jedi thread. Be gentle.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ROTJ-Fan-O-Matic-3-new-clips/id/7919

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There is a lot more music than there is footage for the corridor shootout. There might be an extra bit that we never seen before in the room on the left a trooper retreats and a Stormtrooper goes down there too.

I think the music could be back track a bit for the space scenes without music… I tried to basically do what I could or what i felt was the best way it could be handled without redoing the audio mix.

I just wanted it to make more sense and I think I achieved that much in re-cutting whilst observing the sound mix also. And I definitely found some missing splices and alternative footage edits.

I think if you were going to do Star Wars in 3D this would be an edit that observes 3D space and time sort of an imersion edit that is perhaps a bit Brutal but perhaps to the films benefit also.

Anyway I think it is 90% of the way there it is good enough to show the battle choreography.

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So is there real credence to there being a lost cut or is this just based on speculation by yourself Ronster due to perceived issues with cuts and audio in the movie? I don’t mean to sound harsh but it just seems as if no one else knows what you’re talking about and I guess at this stage it’s just a personally held theory of yourself that you’re trying to prove?

I will give you props for the effort you’re putting into it but what is the end goal and it’s significance to Star Wars?

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I have already revised the video and these things take time because it is like a chinease puzzle what is meant to go where? What shots actually match the sound mix and does it also make sense in this order?

The shot of the troopers running between corridor battle 1 and cortidor battle 2 was the only shot I added audio for, although in terms of continuity that shot does indeed replace the dissolve it was not “how it was” edited with the sound mix as I have spotted a few things that I got wrong this may be the end shot also the storm troopers turning the corner is not an alternate take and is flipped.

Or we are missing a single shot of rebels shooting…Which I might be able to somehow re-use a shot or something.

So it is very close now…

Fact is the audio does not resemble the footage in the order it is currently in. So the sound mix was created for an edit of this scene that was different.

The end goal is to identify how it was planned and what Ben Burt prepared the soundmix for vs how it ended up being shown and altered at a late stage.

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Good work on the shoot out!
For the the main problem remaining in your version is that we hear those arms grabbing the Tantive, but on the exterior shot the ship is still being pulled.
Perhaps you can use some Rogue One footage to make up for the missing footage ?
There’s a shot from the Destroyer towards the Tantive that might work.

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What about the airlock Door sound effect for Vaders entrance?

Yeah it is off screen and I think it is fine but I often wondered if thete was a shot of the actual Door… Actually the radio drama airlock sounds much better.

The gun fight is a bit more accurate now but I created a problem so I always have the previous version as a get out of Jail card.

I may add the escape pod insert that I have Handy and the claw grab from Rogue One… But it really is not the main focus, I really just want to concentrate o video matched to audio but yeah good shout 😃

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Not going to revise the Shoot out but it could be tweaked a bit.

One last thing that I myself am curious about that I actually spoke about recently and I can’t say I know if it is correct or not so don’t think I am being forthright on any solid conclusions about this.

The force theme is used in the Radio Drama of the Falcon approaching the planet Yavin IV.

I decided to see how that could perhaps work see the video below.

https://vimeo.com/385016338

Is it a music cue for this part = no

could it have been a planned music edit = yes

Does it work well = In my opinion yes it does, and the Radio Drama uses this music too.

I’ll just leave it with you to decide if you think it would have been better or not but I personally like it and it’s a lovely piece of music anyway.

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I like the little bit right when they land and come inside. The rest seems out of place.

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I do see what you mean… I did not cross reference exactly what exact music is used in the radio drama I just tried the force theme.

This bit always felt a bit empty i will check the radio drama music they use.

The version of the force theme i used is not in the film though so I naturally assumed it could be that if it was meant to go there that is because there is nowhere else i could possibly see it being placed.

Radio drama uses same force theme as binary sunset and I don’t see that being long enough.

I Have produced an alternate Version Because the alignment could be wrong if it is actually a music cue but I am not claiming it is a music cue It’s a hunch based off the Radio Drama and that piece of unused music. It is a big section of unused music although it blends into the same music in the Garage that does not mean it would not be repeated especially as it echoes 3P0 “He Kept Babbling on about his mission” about R2-D2 and we are actually seeing R2-D2 complete his mission so I do think is actually very nice. The Force theme now sits much better I think if it is a cue then It’s this or simply a nice creative music edit…

See new version Below.

https://vimeo.com/385110692

I would actually go with this attempt rather than the version 1 as it seems to sit better, are there any score notes pertaing to this particular force theme that is unused in the score notes?

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V2 is better, but the music must can’t start over Han and Luke’s dialog. It feels out of place and disconnected from their conversation. But it plays well over the space scenes.

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Yeah I was thinking that myself about the conversation music chop it back…

Any idea where this music part is from I found it in Binary Sunset extended version?

If I recall this version was released with a game soundtrack but it is John Williams.

Please correct me if i am wrong, but it is definitely unused A New Hope Music?

Edit:

Ok It is an edited piece of music by Lucus arts that combines binary sunset and light of the force from return of the Jedi.

So i have been fooled on that one 😃

Definitely not a music cue but it works well enough as a creative music edit… Oh well tricked and made more of it than than I should of, not sure it is actually used in ROTJ either so I guess it is fair game and will put this down to check these things first!

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Something happened recently that might mean I have more spare time for a bit.

I am planning to make the 4 deleted scenes from Star wars work.

Luke Binoculars

Toshi station

Biggs Farewell.

Vader and Bast

I am not going to clean up the scenes or do visual effects unless it is easy enough.

But I will try to get them working as best I can in terms of editing and sound. And get them streamlined and useable or as useable as I can.

If anyone would like to contribute special effects skills then do so. I do not feel I have the skils for the binoculars visual effects basically. But I will try to achieve a rough temp version.

If somone can point me in the direction of a bit cleaner version that would be great.

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videoFred’s film restoration avisynth script is what you want. I ran it in the Bigg’s scene and it did a great job of removing the scratches. It actually came out looking too waxy and clean compared to the rest of the film, but still way better than the original version.

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 (Edited)

I won’t be cleaning it up at all if there is a bit better version I will use that.

The main problem with the deleted scenes are that they are not edited down and have no sound effects or music.

Once they are made useable in terms of these factors then somone else can clean it up and use the edit or simply bounce off the ideas.

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Seems a good approach.

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ifjg said:

videoFred’s film restoration avisynth script is what you want. I ran it in the Bigg’s scene and it did a great job of removing the scratches. It actually came out looking too waxy and clean compared to the rest of the film, but still way better than the original version.

Where do we find that script?