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Info: Some thoughts on this community.

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This is a continued discussion from the X0 thread, and as it’s off-topic and I don’t want to derail the thread I’ve produced this new one.

It’s killing you, isn’t it Boris…
It’s starting to become all too clear now…
The X0 version is going to show up the offical OOT. I can hardly wait.</div>

Personally, I will buy the DVD’s in September, and have no problem with it. Every little thing that is complained about the release on these forums is 1. speculation and 2. blown way out of proportion. I don’t understand not wanting to buy the official product on DVD, and then expecting to download a pirated DVD copy made from Laserdsic - honestly, I don’t. I can understand if you own the LaserDiscs and in September you say “these are still better quality” - and you then go and make a back-up copy of your own - I can understand that. It seems to be killing you vbangle, that I will buy these and have no problem with it… Lucas has given us exactly what we want.

He could have ruined it with a new transfer. Remember what they did with the Indiana Jones trilogy? I refuse to buy the DVD’s, and I have absolutely no plans to obtain a pirated version of it either. It’s not that the films have been bastardized to the point of the SW trilogy, it’s the fact that I can’t buy an authentic version. I don’t care if there’s a few small changes between the home video release and the theatrical version, it’s to be expected - but it’s when they make the kind of changes that censor the original work that I do. As consumers we have a choice, and my choice is not to buy it. There are so many things he could have done wrong with a new SW transfer. And so all there is to complain about is:

And I mean why all the PT bashing? The PT is not the OT, so therefore why does it matter to originaltrilogy.com if the PT was fantastic or not? I’m a Spielberg fan, but you don’t see me complaining about every movie he made that I didn’t like as if it somehow ruins the movies I did like. You don’t see me complaining about some of the shit that Craven has directed when I talk about the great movies that he made. In fact, you don’t really see anyone do this - so honestly as far as I can see the members here are so unforgiving and critical of a great filmmaker - for many the filmmaker who made their favourite saga. In addition to this they’re rude, arrogant, insulting and all too negative. Here’s a thought, if ot.com held an official convention and invited Lucas to come, and lets say tfn.net held a convention in honour of the prequels the same day, with the same number of people - and you are Lucas, and you’ve been invited to both - which one would you rather go to? Would you rather go to all the hate-mongering ot.com members who keep defaming your name, and calling you a liar, a cheat, a scumbag - have no respect for you and seem to hate everything that you’ve done? Or do you go to TFN’s convention where there are people who will smile, who appreciate your work - who don’t defame you, who’ve sent nice letters to you and have made you feel really good about yourself?

I do appreciate what the X0 team is doing, I really do. I’m certainly not a “fan of the project” - but I do believe in preservation, and I do appreciate their dedication for what they love and I appreciate their goal to preserve the Laserdisc is the highest possible quality. Hell, I’m not a fan of this site either. You may wonder then why I keep coming back - well I wonder too.

But as far as I can see, so many members that frequent this forum just do not seem to be the kind of people who are going to motivate Lucas to do what they want - they just seem to be the kind of people who want everything their way, and vent anger and hate towards Lucas at every opportunity. My favourite thread is the SW covers thread, because at least there people are positive, they don’t say bad and negative things all the time, they share their own original work - and they represent real love for Star Wars.

Perhaps the thing that worries me most is how everyone seems to have already judged the September release based on nothing more then speculation and bias. I am going to prove that this is wrong in September, when I will show everyone official DVD’s that I own, that I had no problem buying and look worse then the September SW trilogy OUT discs.

Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Let me explain to you the difference between the XO Project and the OUT discs we are getting in September.

XO Project
_________

1. Semi-Anamorphic
2. Cleaned up frame by frame and color corrected to the best of the XO project team's ability.



OUT
_____________________________

1. A straight to disc transfer of the movies from laserdisc with no clean up.
2. Not anamorphic
3. No color correction and no dirt or smudge cleanup on any of the frames that we know of, except what was done on the 1993 set.






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1. What's wrong with the Indy trilogy?
2. Why can't we have negative feelings about stuff? Are we scientologists? (I even like the prequels and I get along fine with people who hate them. Everybody on earth hates them, and I'm not moving to the moon).
3. These dvds suck cock.
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What was so bad about the Indiana Jones dvd set? It was cleaned frame by frame and looks very faithful (I've rented it). I know there may have been a few small changes but the films remained largely unscathed, maybe due in part to that South Park episode.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Not to point you out or anything Marvolo, but I think your post just epitomized the exact thing boris is trying to address. I wouldn't be so quick to write him off - he makes a very good point.

Scanning through the boards every day, I see a lot of posts that just make me laugh. They make me laugh because I can't really understand how people can have so much hate for a person that they want so desperately to receive something from. It's one thing to dislike Lucas' treatment of the Original Trilogy, but it's completely another to talk about him as if he's the scum of the earth wishing he were dead. I think Jay made a pretty good point about that already on the General Discussion board.

But the other thing that I agree with boris on is that most of the time, this place isn't very kind or respectful of people who have a different viewpoint on the OT, or especially the PT. I think this place could do a much better job of respectfully disagreeing with someone over their opinions, rather than driving them off the site. Think about it.

boris said:
I am going to prove that this is wrong in September, when I will show everyone official DVD's that I own, that I had no problem buying and look worse then the September SW trilogy OUT discs.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Originally posted by: Marvolo
Let me explain to you the difference between the XO Project and the "Added Value Bonus" piece of shit we are getting in September.
XO Project
_________

1. Anamorphic
No it's not. It's pseudo-anamorphic. It's resized non-anamorphic video.
2. Cleaned up frame by frame.
Most of this is due to anomalies created by Laserdisc and not the master.
3. Color corrected where ever it needed it.
4. Done by people who care about the films and take the time to do the project right.
5. Mastered from a generational analogue source.
6. Transferred by fans.

George Lucas' "Added Value Bonus" shit
_____________________________

1. A straight to disc transfer of the movies from laserdisc with no clean up.
Actually, the film was cleaned up frame-for frame, and is far more extensive then the amount of clean-up that's being done by X0
2. Absolutely not anamorphic.
3. No color correction and no dirt or smudge cleanup on any of the frames.
Actually, the film had extensive colour correction, and had dirt, scratches, fading and other deformities cleaned when they made the master in 1993.
There is also no evidence that there isn't going to be some more colour correction and cleanup done to the masters before DVD release, what you've said is based on speculation. And even if they don't do more correction, the fact is the amount of colour correction and film cleanup they did in 1993 is way more then the X0 project is.
4. Done by someone who could care less about the OOT and is trying to capitalize on the bootleg market and make a quick buck.
Absolutely not true. Lucas had a real passion for releasing the theatrical version in 1993, and that is the master the Sep DVD's are coming from.
5. Mastered from a digital source.
6. Transferred by professionals who are well paid to do a commercial-grade job.

I could add many more points. You choose to ignore so much, and to see things the way you want to believe it. Well that's fine. I'm very happy to be getting the OUT on DVD. Unlike some others here, I don't own the LD's. I have pirated LD rips, and I would much, much rather have the September DVD's over pirated LD rips, over the X0 copies and over official THX laserdiscs. There is so little to actually complain about the September DVD's that you guys have strung out the little things and blown them way out of proportion - such as it not being anamorphic. And to make things worse, there's not enough of these to complain about, even when strung out - so the ot.com forum members make up things and speculate about what "could" be wrong with them, and then act as if they know that there are going to be these little problems - and then string them out, and complain about them!

Like the opening crawl. Like the sound mix. Like the video being interlaced. Like the possible small little glitches in the digital masters. You don't actually KNOW there's going to be anything wrong with any of this - but you'll complain about it, and string out those complaints anyway.

As far as I'm concerned to Lucas ot.com is probably what PETA is to KFC. Whether or not you've got legitimate concerns, you string out everything way beyond the scope if it's meaning - you harass, vent hate and anger, expect everything to be done your way - you're convinced that there's nothing wrong with the way you bring your concerns, you're convinced that all of your concerns are valid, you're convinced that you're right and they're wrong on every single thing. I have never heard of PETA deliberately working together with KFC, all they do is complain, harass, complain, harass, and hate. They blame KFC for things outside of their control like how the hens they buy from factory farms are raised. Just like people here blame Lucas for things like Industrial Light and Magic selling off the physical effects unit.

I wouldn't give an organization like PETA a grain of salt because I know that they're hatemongering pigs that think just because they stand for something moral like Animal Rights they can do whatever they like, however they like and still get respect for it and be doing the right thing. Now I'm not saying that ot.com is as bad as PETA, hell I wouldn't dream of saying that. But honestly, the direction this forum has taken, the lengths to which people here string out their complaints, the way in which they speculate about things they can complain about, and the way in which they talk about Lucas is, well, disturbing.

The DVD version of the Indy trilogy is like film colourization.

I come here because there are some great members of this forum with something genuine to contribute.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Thanks for your reply Zion
Originally posted by: Zion
boris said:
I am going to prove that this is wrong in September, when I will show everyone official DVD's that I own, that I had no problem buying and look worse then the September SW trilogy OUT discs.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.
What I mean is once I own the September DVD's I will post screenshots from other DVD's I have that are equal or lower quality - and probably have the scratches and hairs that the SW Trilogy won't have, and will clearly show the "OUT" is not unreasonably low in quality.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Originally posted by: Marvolo
the only reason why I said that is because he said he didn't like the site.
Read what I wrote again, I said clearly there are many things about the community which I don't like - that is very different to saying I don't like the site.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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I agree with Zion; in its own way the community here can be as negative and disrespectful as the wackaloons at tfn, from the opposite side. I've vented once or twice in anger but generally I try to distance myself from bashing, because not only is it rude and inappropriate, it's immature as well, and those who are quick to resort to insults and flaming do everyone else on this site a disservice.

And don't forget, anger and hate lead to the dark side, after all.


As far as the Indy trilogy dvd's, that is a great set and I'm very glad to own it. If SW had been given a similar treatment, largely free of senseless tampering, I'd be extraordinarily pleased with it.
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Boris, I respect the reason why you come here and I am sorry if I have offended you. Lately though I have been so frustrated from all the news about the quality of the these dvd's. I have been wanting transfers like the 2004 discs but that isn't happening so my temper has been a little high these past few days. Once again, I want to say I am sorry, because I don't want you to hate this place because of me making remarks about you and Lucas. That is not the purpose of this site and I hope it never is.


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To address what's being said about the X0 Project vs. the Official OUT DVDs:

The cleanup involved in the 1993 release actually did remove a lot of dirt and scratches. The immense amount of dirt in the pre-THX LDs is evidence enough. But the cleanup didn't remove everything and the ghosting it left behind is almost unbearable for me to watch anymore. You'd be surprised how many burn marks were still in the video after their extensive cleanup job. All of these will be absent from the X0 release, as will the shots horribly affected by the DVNR.

I've said many times in the past that I have no doubt the X0 will be better than the OUT, and I still stand by my words. Though if the OUTs prove to be much higher quality than any of us anticipate, I will graciously bow to Lucasfilm's effort and take a large helping of crow.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Well as far as I'm concerned, this site is about people doing something about the things they don't like, no matter how miniscule or what way they go about doing it. It's also about people discussing what they don't like so that if another kind soul feels generous enough, they can fix it for that person.

If someone has a problem with the fact that we don't have the BEST quality possible anamorphic transfer of the original trilogy, then they talk about it or try to fix it. Whether it's petitioning Lucas to fix his DVD, fixing his DVD themselves, or making another LD transfer.

I'll tell you something I don't like: @$$holes like *Boris* detracting from the point of this site, and you can bet your @$$ that if I had moderator status I would have banned him simply for being stupid and detracting from the point of the site. But I don't have moderator status, so I leave it up to the moderators, hopefully one of them is kind-hearted enough, and as intolerant of people like this as I am, that they would not only ban him but crash his harddrive at the same time, once again for being stupid (and ofcourse detracting from the point of the site)!

See, my problem isn't with Lucas, it's with idiots like: *Boris*!
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Originally posted by: Zion
The cleanup involved in the 1993 release actually did remove a lot of dirt and scratches. The immense amount of dirt in the pre-THX LDs is evidence enough. But the cleanup didn't remove everything and the ghosting it left behind is almost unbearable for me to watch anymore. You'd be surprised how many burn marks were still in the video after their extensive cleanup job. All of these will be absent from the X0 release, as will the shots horribly affected by the DVNR.
I don't doubt that, all I was trying to say is that if you started with the digital SD tapes that Lucasfilm started with in 1993 before any cleanup was done, I don't believe your version would be anywhere near as cleaned up as theirs.

You can take it for granted that Lucasfilm monitors this site, and so I could easily speculate that they've employed a team to clean up their 1993 digital master beyond the extent that you could with the LD captures. Of course I can only speculate on this, and I'm not in anyway saying it will happen - it's just a thought. Another thought is that if you started with the OUT DVD's and cleaned them up, wouldn't they look better then the cleaned-up X0 capture?

Anyway, I'm going to do other things now so until tomorrow or whenever I return - stay well.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Originally posted by: DarthBalls1138
I'll tell you something I don't like: @$$holes like *Boris* detracting from the point of this site, and you can bet your @$$ that if I had moderator status I would have banned him simply for being stupid and detracting from the point of the site. But I don't have moderator status, so I leave it up to the moderators, hopefully one of them is kind-hearted enough, and as intolerant of people like this as I am, that they would not only ban him but crash his harddrive at the same time, once again for being stupid (and ofcourse detracting from the point of the site)!
One final point before I go: This is exactly the kind of hate-mongering I was talking about earlier.

Peace.

Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Time
Post link
Originally posted by: boris

Most of [the cleanup needed] is due to anomalies created by Laserdisc and not the master.
Actually, the film was cleaned up frame-for frame, and is far more extensive then the amount of clean-up that's being done by X0
[E]ven if they don't do more correction, the fact is the amount of colour correction and film cleanup they did in 1993 is way more then the X0 project is [doing].


Boris, my friend, unless you work for LFL and are personally handling the work, you don't have a scrap of proof that any of that is true. You are at least as bad as the zealots you complain about when you make up "facts" and then use those home-brewed "facts" to prop up an argument. It's not right when the unabashed X0 Project lovers do it, and it's not right when you do it. I'm neither super-mega-pro X0, nor a complete detractor like you. I'm just calling you on your unprovable statements.

If you read Zion's posts, he never claims facts not in evidence, for either side of the debate. He knows more about what's on the current LDs than you do, and I suspect (again, unless you are intimately involved at LFL) that he also knows more about what's on the master tapes than you do. I have a large selection of all available LDs of note, and I have never seen Zion make a post that contradicts what I have seen with my own two eyes. You, on the other hand, claim a lot of "facts" not in evidence.

I'm going with the ever-moderate, edumacated Zion on this one. At the moment, you're off in la-la land with your opinions of how good the upcoming DVD release will be, just like those who figure the X0 Project will automagically be better than DVD just because it will be presented as an anamorphic upscale. The truth -- as Zion, one of the head X0 guys says hisself -- will be somewhere in between.

Please stop pretending to be a voice of cold rationality, when in truth you're just as much of a kook as those people you rail against.
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Boris...First I would like to say that I finally have some respect for you after all. By starting a new thread you at least showed some forethought and common sense, not to mention at least a little respect for the X0 thread. Thank you.
With that said, I have a few responses to some of the topics you have brought up.

Originally posted by: boris
It seems to be killing you vbangle, that I will buy these and have no problem with it... Lucas has given us exactly what we want.
No, I don't know you from Adam and could care less what you do...but let me make one thing perfectly clear. Lucas has not given us EXACTLY what we wanted.

Originally posted by: boris
...so honestly as far as I can see the members here are so unforgiving and critical of a great filmmaker - for many the filmmaker who made their favorite saga. ...for many the filmmaker who MANGLED/RAPED their favorite saga, and changed it into something it wasn't. TWICE. George's 1997 vision/version....oops just kidding....George's 2004 vision/version......LAME. Lucas's vision of Star Wars seems to be an ever changing cloudy mess....come on George make up your mind.

Originally posted by: boris
I do appreciate what the X0 team is doing, I really do. I'm certainly not a "fan of the project" - but I do believe in preservation...

Boris, you are being somewhat disingenuous here. Look at what you wrote earlier...

"I don't understand not wanting to buy the official product on DVD, and then expecting to download a pirated DVD copy made from Laserdisc."

You can't have it both ways. PICK ONE.
And yes, the most obvious statement EVER to be made award (I'm certainly not a "fan of the project") goes to Boris! LOL

Originally posted by: boris
Hell, I'm not a fan of this site either.
That's because to you, most of what goes on here, at this site, is illegal. Guess what I don't....most of the people here don't.

Originally posted by: boris
He owes shit to fans like can be found here that try to find new and inventive ways to insult him with every post.

Fans, be it Lucas worshipping disciples like yourself or Lucas bashers have ALL contributed to the mans wealth and fortune. "He owns shit to the fans?" Really? FUCK. I want my ALL my money back then. Let's see the 3 times I saw Star Wars as a kid doesn't count, my father paid for those tickets. But everything else from then on I paid for myself. A dozen or so times to see ESB, A dozen or so times to see ROTJ, one time each for the prequels....countless, and I mean countless Star Wars merchandise ranging from figurines to posters to models to clothing and beyond for the last 25 years or so....and oh wait, one bought and paid for copy of the definitive collection laserdiscs, 4 bought and paid for VHS copies and my crown jewel....my very own bought and paid for 2004 DVD Trilogy set. (Love those crushed blacks and bluish-white storm troopers....)
I'd say a over a grand easy. Give it back you ungrateful fat ass....oh wait Boris says you owe shit to me......oh OK, I guess I'm wrong then....never mind.


I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Steve Sansweet at Comic Con said that the Sept. DVD's were non anamorphic, true, but they WOULD be color corrected, frame by frame.

I dunno....he said it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/bgiffen/bigbluerig.jpg
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Boris you are spot on chap! This place is full of wingeing crystal ball readers who have condemned something before they've even seen it.
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"Boris you are spot on chap! This place is full of wingeing crystal ball readers who have condemned something before they've even seen it."

well said,I personally couldnt agree more,and there are alot of other peeps here that feel the exact same way,but are to tired of argueing against all the hate mongers.
I have NOTHING at all against the X0 project,damn i think it is cool,but I find it very hard to believe GL will let a fan created project beat anything he and his pro's can put out,i think i read somewhere that they(the X0 team)said that ANH will be ready when the Sept. DVD's get here,well i think we should just end all the specualtion and wait till Sept. and do a head to head comparison of the 2,and then we will see which is better quality.
and IF the GL DVD's are better,just rip the damn files to your PC and make it anamorphic yourself,it would be NO different than X0 making theres anamorphic.
sorry for the rant,but damn,we have page after page of this shit.
DJ
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Originally posted by: eros
Boris you are spot on chap! This place is full of wingeing crystal ball readers who have condemned something before they've even seen it.


Are you talking about boris reading his crystal ball and condemning the X0 Project before he's even seen it? I thought so.
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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Are you talking about boris reading his crystal ball and condemning the X0 Project before he's even seen it? I thought so.
If you think I'm trying to rip on the X0 project then you've compleatly missed the point.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Time
Post link
I guess I have to quote you again:

Most of [the cleanup needed] is due to anomalies created by Laserdisc and not the master.
Actually, the film was cleaned up frame-for frame, and is far more extensive then the amount of clean-up that's being done by X0
[E]ven if they don't do more correction, the fact is the amount of colour correction and film cleanup they did in 1993 is way more then the X0 project is [doing].


Now, can you explain how that isn't ripping on the X0 Project? You don't know anything at all about what's happening with the X0 Project, nor do you know anything about the DVD masters, yet you've pulled out your crystal ball and (to paraphrase eros) started whingeing about something before you've even seen it.

I reiterate: no matter how much you pretend to be rational and objective, you are not, as long as you continue to present "facts" such as the ones quoted above.

Some real facts are:

- George is not doing for the OUT what he did for his revised versions (i.e. colour correction, cleaning, anamorphic transfer, etc.), which is disappointing since he clearly could have done better, and we know this is true even before seeing the results.
- The OUT on DVD will likely be the best we've ever seen it (I want it, too) -- but it won't be as good as it could be due to technical issues already announced (I'm a little choked it'll be sort of half-assed).
- The X0 Project video will almost certainly be softer, but quite possibly cleaner and better colour-corrected than the OUT DVD.
- Resolution alone does not equal great picture quality.
- Digital media alone does not equal great picture quality.
- An official DVD release alone does not equal great picture quality.
- For many people, it is fun to follow the progress of projects like X0 and Mike Verta's, just because of the skill and commitment of the participants.
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I have a solution. We stop creating boards about the OUT release unless we have something informative and useful to say. Fussing about this release isn't going to do a thing, because it is already in production. They are not going to change their plans this late in the game. We need to stick to this sites purpose and ask for a future release with anamorpic video and a restored image by signing a petition not ranting and raving about the september release. I have ranted a few good times myself, but I relized it is doing absolutely nothing for the cause.
The more we push against Lucas the more he is going to push back. If you don't agree, I am sorry you feel that way.