16 bits per channel linear (i.e. 48bit), is barely enough to get the full range of film, 10bit or 12bit will do if logarithmic.
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I thought bits were all logarithmic?
Also - Poita - do you use wetgate (is that a product, a method, or both?)? Just curious.
Wet Gate is a process. In simplitisc terms the film goes through a chamber filled with liquid, this minimises some scratches at the expense of a slight loss of contrast. The gate is quite literally 'wet'.
You can get similar results by using multiple passes of filmguard (it takes 4 or 5) to work as a pseudo wetgate, the filmguard liquid coats the film and does a similar job. A true wetgate is better though.
I am currently saving up for a real wetgate for my system, it is about $500, but is worth it. Currently I use the filmguard method if a 'wetgate' transfer is required.
As for log vs lin, 8bit vs 10bit, it is a complicated issue, but this intro from QVO isn't a bad place to start.
http://www.qvolabs.com/Digital_Images_ColorSpace_Log_vs_Linear.html
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Mike, you should pass on the SE reel... the mono reel is far more valuable.
This is now officially my favorite thread.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
poita said:
I can't do 4K but it would cost me about USD$6000 to upgrade my current rig to 2736x2192 @ 48bit colour, which is about 6MP per frame.
But with a new gate and a few other adjustments I could do 2K now.
I seriously think we should do a kickstarter or the like, I think between us we can make that and if we get an uncompressed file for fast connections and a BD 50 it would be with the investment
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
Mike, you should pass on the SE reel... the mono reel is far more valuable.
This is now officially my favorite thread.
poita said:
Wet Gate is a process. In simplitisc terms the film goes through a chamber filled with liquid, this minimises some scratches at the expense of a slight loss of contrast. The gate is quite literally 'wet'.
You can get similar results by using multiple passes of filmguard (it takes 4 or 5) to work as a pseudo wetgate, the filmguard liquid coats the film and does a similar job. A true wetgate is better though.
I am currently saving up for a real wetgate for my system, it is about $500, but is worth it. Currently I use the filmguard method if a 'wetgate' transfer is required.
As for log vs lin, 8bit vs 10bit, it is a complicated issue, but this intro from QVO isn't a bad place to start.
http://www.qvolabs.com/Digital_Images_ColorSpace_Log_vs_Linear.html
Film Guard is awesome, I love it. The BBC uses something called Timol as their wetgate for transfers. The guy I got the print from sent me a FG/Timol concoction to use to remove some of the lines and the small amount of fungi on some of the reels.
dvdmike said:
poita said:
I can't do 4K but it would cost me about USD$6000 to upgrade my current rig to 2736x2192 @ 48bit colour, which is about 6MP per frame.
But with a new gate and a few other adjustments I could do 2K now.
I seriously think we should do a kickstarter or the like, I think between us we can make that and if we get an uncompressed file for fast connections and a BD 50 it would be with the investment
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
Mike, you should pass on the SE reel... the mono reel is far more valuable.
This is now officially my favorite thread.
100%, easier to colour correct the mono than re-edit the SE
Thanks to the guy earlier in the thread for posting the comparison shots, I had no idea it was THAT bad! As for the SE reel 1, I want it just to complete my print so that when I watch it, at least the color is consistent but I agree the mono reel makes more sense for preservation purposes.
I'll see if I can hunt you down an SE print.
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Poita! You're awesome! Not to derail the thread or anything, but I've been curious about those 8mm prints you won... (that was you, right??)
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
If anyone wants to read up on the legal or logistical issues with regards to transferring the film, read through this thread. It covers just about everything you can imagine!
Mavimao said:
Poita! You're awesome! Not to derail the thread or anything, but I've been curious about those 8mm prints you won... (that was you, right??)
Yes, but send me a PM if you want more details, let's not derail the thread :)
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I knew it ... I KNEW IT! There never were green Deathstar interiors!!
WHO is responsible for this outrage?!?
"I am your green daddy!"
Spaced Ranger said:
I knew it ... I KNEW IT! There never were green Deathstar interiors!!
WHO is responsible for this outrage?!?
"I am your green daddy!"
Green is on Yarvin
dvdmike said:
I seriously think we should do a kickstarter or the like, I think between us we can make that and if we get an uncompressed file for fast connections and a BD 50 it would be with the investment
That would be a great idea.........if Kickstarter wasn't a guaranteed way to immediately attract unwanted attention =|
Maybe we could just have a TeamNegativeOne style private blog donation page like you-know-who did for The Thief and the Cobbler.
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If anyone wants to discuss options with me, please drop me a PM.
Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!
Spaced Ranger said:
I knew it ... I KNEW IT! There never were green Deathstar interiors!!
WHO is responsible for this outrage?!?
"I am your green daddy!"
If there's any thing you want me to check and possibly take a pic of, let me know. I'm not a fanboy of SW (no offense whatsoever meant by that term), just a regular fan, so you'll have to be specific with any requests (reel location and possibly even a reference frame would be nice)
Chicken Boo said:
If anyone wants to read up on the legal or logistical issues with regards to transferring the film, read through this thread. It covers just about everything you can imagine!
I read some of the replies there, and it's not technically legal to own a 35mm print, but nowadays they don't care as much as they did back in the 70s. Prints are occasionally left at theaters; I worked at one for 10 years and we had about 4 left there because of shipping disputes with the delivery company, and we never heard back from the studios about them. Also, film labs and depots go out of business, theaters close down and each of those locations have film and may sell them in auctions, etc. So there are entirely legal ways prints get out to the collecting community. As for transferring it, it is definitely copyrighted and you cannot transfer in that way the guy explains the laserdisc analogy. I have transfered many exploitation trailers and have lent materials out to Shout Factory and Synapse for various discs, the copyright of those materials are dubious. Often the exploitation companies went out of business, or the rights to the titles have swapped hands many times, so it's tough to track down ownership. Also, the amount of sales of the trailer discs are so small, it's not worth the companies time and money to sue. But with SW, there's no question about that one for sure!
Which is why it's best to handle it with a private scan using the best equipment possible. So a 1080p or 2k scan with maximum color precision using either film guard or a wet gate is the best option. That way the prints are in the hands of dedicated Star Wars fans who will handle them with the greatest care and scan them as well as can be done on equipment that doesn't cost $100,000+ (that 4k machine for $350,000 is nice :) ).
It would be one of the most important events ever in the history of Star Wars preservation to get these prints scanned in at 1080p or 2k with high color accuracy in an uncompressed file format for the best quality possible. I really hope this can be arranged. I'd be willing to kick in some to help cover costs. :) Any donations should all be handled through private communications and low profile.
The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.
Has anyone gotten in contact with -1?
I'm not a member of his blog, but I'm pretty sure I remember him saying that the scan of his print was done. Not sure if the machine is still being used now, or if they're just cleaning up the scan.
mikeaz123 said:
If there's any thing you want me to check and possibly take a pic of, let me know.
Well, actually, if you can make a best-you-can-color-accurate snapshot during the Deathstar conference room scene, preferably with fleshtone faces (too bad for Darth Vader), at about 36 minutes into the movie (11 minutes into reel 2?), that would be great ... and should stir the pot some, here, at Original Trilogy! :D
Just out of curiosity, reel 1 ends at Threepio's oil bath, right?
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Asaki said:
Just out of curiosity, reel 1 ends at Threepio's oil bath, right?
Yep first shot of reel 2 is 3P0 going into the oil bath I think.
Dunedain said:
Which is why it's best to handle it with a private scan using the best equipment possible. So a 1080p or 2k scan with maximum color precision using either film guard or a wet gate is the best option. That way the prints are in the hands of dedicated Star Wars fans who will handle them with the greatest care and scan them as well as can be done on equipment that doesn't cost $100,000+ (that 4k machine for $350,000 is nice :) ).
It would be one of the most important events ever in the history of Star Wars preservation to get these prints scanned in at 1080p or 2k with high color accuracy in an uncompressed file format for the best quality possible. I really hope this can be arranged. I'd be willing to kick in some to help cover costs. :) Any donations should all be handled through private communications and low profile.
I have upgraded my equipment this week.
Who needs a car anyway?
Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
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Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!
Poita, has he contacted you yet? REALLY excited for this :)
Preferred Saga:
1,2: Numeraljoker extended
3: L8wrtr
4,6-9: Hal9000
5: Adywan
This could get interesting for sure. So far i do like Harmy's version (minus a few things.. sue me I'm a grumpy old man), but getting to see this would be extremely exciting.
Hope mikeaz123 is the real deal, no offense but this is the Internet after all. My two cents, getting it professionally transferred is surely possible despite the legalities. Lets face it, there are Star Wars fans everywhere... just need to find one in the right spot.
Good luck getting this done, and if there's a safe way to contribute any monies to help I'll be the first in line for sure (this is the Internet after all).